How much dimmer on the ground glass is an f/9 lens vs a f/5.6? Or f/5.6 vs f/4.5?

[Schuster_Shots]

Hello!

I know that the technical answer to my quiestion is "about a stop dimmer" but, practically speaking, how much of a difference is there?

I'm looking at getting a Chamonix 45N-2 for shooting nature and landscapes on 6x9 and occasionally 4x5. This will be my first view camera and I know that a dimmer image on the ground glass will be harder to focus, but how much harder?

Lenses with smaller maximum apertures are typically cheaper and lighter which is attractive but I worry that the image will be too dim?

[Jim Noel]

It should not impact your focusing on the subjects you say you photograph.

[Eric Woodbury]

It isn't hard to focus if you have a good darkcloth. Small aperture is more an issue with wide angle lenses, but not worth f/4.5 in my opinion. If your vision is wonky, as mine is, then a loupe can help.

I just bought a 90mm Angulon. Not a fast lens, but it weighs nothing. Therefore, it will get used more often than my 90mm f/5.6 Nikkor.

[Schuster_Shots]

Thank you!

I wanted to do outdoor macro/close-up work with a 180mm f/9, would I have to worry? I know that lots of bellows extension also results in a dimmer ground

[Ari]

Not much dimmer, it should not be a factor in deciding whether to buy an f/5.6 or f/9.

[Schuster_Shots]

Great. Thank you!

[Bernice Loui]

What lens focal length?

A light weight field folder camera has limited ability to support a long focal length, large full aperture lens. Essentially, the camera choice has decided what lenses can be used.

Large aperture wide angles lenses like a 90mm f4.5 full aperture will be big yet not as bright as normal_ish focal length 210mm f4.5 full aperture lens. As for viewing aids like a fresnel lens, they are a mixed baggie of trade offs.

Given this is a light weight field folder, suggestion would be to use smaller full aperture lenses, like 90mm f8 wide angle, 135mm to 150mm f2.8 <-> f5.6 full aperture as moderate wide to normal should be ok, longer than normal focal length lens from 240mm to 360mm should be f9 full aperture.

Focusing should not be the deciding factor, image goals, image rendition and a long list of other factor should be the deciding factor. There will often be times when the lens needs to be stopped down to the taking aperture to evaluate what the film captured image would be. This means learning how to see and deal with the dim image produced by a lens stopped down to f16 or smaller, if that is the taking aperture. At times, full aperture of the lens can and will be used depending on image goals.

Camera is merely a light tight box that is flexi in the center with one end for the lens, other end for the film holder. Lenses that can be used is highly dependent on the capabilities of this light tight box.



Bernice

[Schuster_Shots]

Thanks, Bernice!

My planned lineup of lenses is currently as follows:

75mm f/5.6 (Fujinon or Schneider)
180mm f/9 (Fujinon)
300mm f/9 (Nikkor)

Since I'll mostly be shooting 6x9, I'll probably acquire the 75mm first.

This is also brings me to a second question: How close can I focus a 300mm lens with 395mm of bellows draw? I know I'll be fine at infinity.

[LabRat]

Depends on lens... Some of my f10 process lenses "snap" into focus due to increased contrast, color saturation etc when focused, as well as a "sparkle" on specular highlights...

Wides are different, but longer lenses easier...

Steve K

[Tobias Key]

Thanks, Bernice!

My planned lineup of lenses is currently as follows:

75mm f/5.6 (Fujinon or Schneider)
180mm f/9 (Fujinon)
300mm f/9 (Nikkor)

Since I'll mostly be shooting 6x9, I'll probably acquire the 75mm first.

This is also brings me to a second question: How close can I focus a 300mm lens with 395mm of bellows draw? I know I'll be fine at infinity.

75mm 4x5 lenses are not particularly easy to use. I have a Schneider 75mm 5.6 Super Angulon, it projects quite a dim image on the ground glass of my Wista 45DX. You have to look at the edges of the frame at an angle to see them clearly. This will be less of a problem if you are shooting 6x9, but still worth considering. If you are a beginner I would always recommend an easy as possible path to producing your first images. I would start in the 120-180 range as these lenses are easy to use, small and light.

[lenicolas]

I think more than the brightness of the lens it depends on the contrast of your subject and how magnified your subject is.
I have an easier time focusing a portrait under contrasting modelling lights with my 480mm f/9 than a moody landscape with my 75mm f/4.5...
Of course all things being equal, a fast lens is much more comfortable to use. My 210mm f/4.5 is my most used lens because it’s just so nice to compose and focus with.

I have the 45N2 and with a 300mm at full extension I can do a head and shoulder portrait on 4x5, so on 6x9 you should be able to do headshots.

[abruzzi]

I can’t see much difference between my 75mm f4.5 and my 90mm f5.6. I can see the difference between the 90mm f5.6 and my 105mm f8. Nontheless, the f8 is still pretty usable under a dark cloth. (Actually, everything where I shoot requires a dark cloth.)

[Mark Sawyer]

If you can find access to someone's view camera (since you don't have one yet), just set the lens at different apertures and compare focusing and brightness.

[maltfalc]

Thank you!

I wanted to do outdoor macro/close-up work with a 180mm f/9, would I have to worry? I know that lots of bellows extension also results in a dimmer ground 1:1 will turn your f/9 into an f/18. if you've got a camera handy try using the viewfinder at f/18.

[Tin Can]

Isn't fstop theory that all lenses at infinity focus with the same aperture, such as f8 will have the same 'light' on GG and make the same exposure on film?

That's why I use a meter to tell me so...

[BrianShaw]

If you can find access to someone's view camera (since you don't have one yet), just set the lens at different apertures and compare focusing and brightness.

Or do the same with a 35mm or MF camera with lens stopped down.

[Oslolens]

This is also brings me to a second question: How close can I focus a 300mm lens with 395mm of bellows draw? I know I'll be fine at infinity.

According to graflex lens chart for Rodenstock Schneider Nikkor Calumet and Fujinon, Nikkor-M 300mm has 294mm from film to flange. Bellows draw for 1:1 is 294+294, 1:2 is 294+294/2 while 1:3 is 294+294/3.

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[Schuster_Shots]

Thank you all so much! This is very helpful.

[Alan Klein]

300mm f9 is much brighter than 90 f/4.5 or 75mm f/5.6 all other things remaining equal on my Chamonix 45H-1.

[Drew Wiley]

Several factors. First, how bright the scene itself might be. Second, how adjusted your eyes are to dimmer light. Wearing sunglasses helps until you are under the darkcloth. Some types of groundglass seem to work better than others, though I don't personally like fresnels or screen brighteners. Longer focal length lenses are easier to focus at smaller apertures than wide-angle ones. But outdoors, one or two stops difference of maximum aperture is generally no big deal if you have a decent magnifying loupe. I carry view lenses all the way from f/3.5 to f/11 max aperture, but mainly in the f/9 range. I don't have a problem composing or focussing with any of them.

There are obviously going to be certain exceptions to that, like if someone has poor eyesight. Or you might be shooting within the entrance of a cave, like I was yesterday. I did fine; but if it had been really dim I would have brought a little laser pointer to provide me with a bright beam spot to focus on.

[grat]

Personal experience with a Chamonix 45N-1 (classic), which has an identical screen to your 45N-2. Today, I could focus and compose with a 105mm f/5.6 in bright daylight using a loupe and the "folding hood with carbon fiber cover". Using my new 90mm f/8, it wasn't too bad to focus, but it was a challenge to compose. A dark cloth (which I thought was in my bag, but wasn't) would have made it no problem. Had I even been in shade, it would have been OK, but at the time, I was in full, bright, Florida sun.

There was also a black snake in the area-- typically non-aggressive, but I'd startled him when I first arrived, and didn't want him sneaking up, so I don't know if I'd have used a darkcloth anyway. ;)

So there is a difference, but overall, the Chamonix screen is pretty bright, and it shouldn't stop you from getting the lens.