Nagaoka camera?

[Songyun]

I saw this camera on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/274242820504
The bottom plate says Nagaoka woody since 1911.
This camera looks very similar to Philips, anyone knows the history?

[Oren Grad]

Nothing exotic, it's just the last version of the 8x10 Nagaoka.

EDIT: "Phillips type", but probably not the last version - see my post below.

[John Kasaian]

I saw this camera on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/274242820504
The bottom plate says Nagaoka woody since 1911.
This camera looks very similar to Philips, anyone knows the history?

Sadly, Mr. Nagaoka recently passed away. Check out this thread:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?159962-Nagaoka-cameras-are-still-made-in-Japan-The-story-of-a-wooden-LF-craftsman/page3&highlight=Nagaoka
Not too sure about the date on your camera as the company was founded in 1962, not 1911.

[Drew Wiley]

It only superficially resembles a Phillips, which used a custom lamination of epoxy-impregnated cherrywood and fiberglass (much stronger and more dimensionally stable). But it might be a fine camera in its own right, and at considerably lower price than the going rate for used Phillips 8x10's.

The 1911 date clearly shows up in a magnified view of the baseplate. So is it even a real Nakaoka? Comparing a different listing of a late Nagaoka 8x10, there's a distinct dogleg to the rear standard bearer, whereas in this case it's just a thin straight section. One more thing that makes me suspect this particular listing is a knockoff, perhaps from India.

[aphcl84]

I have to agree with Drew, there are several features that look different than any Nagaoka that I've seen before, I think this is a knockoff. Also I don't believe there ever was an 8x10 woody.

[Oren Grad]

That "since 1911" label was standard on recent production Nagaoka cameras in all formats.

The 8x10 Nagaoka, like the smaller ones, was designated "Woody" - I have Nippon Camera annuals from the '90's and '00's documenting that. The annuals also show that for his 8x10 model, Nagaoka-san had moved to the "Phillips style" design with floating front standard by 1995, if not earlier.

EDIT: More on the "1911" thing - going through my Nagaoka files, looking in particular at an interview that appeared in a Japanese online publication last year, I get the impression that around 1962 he more or less inherited an existing small factory where he had started to work during his student days, as the prior owner did not otherwise have an heir. So it's possible that he claimed the origin of the earlier operation as his own. I'd welcome any further insight on this from any native Japanese readers who happen to see this.

EDIT 2: One other design note, for those who are familiar only with the Phillips Compact II and Explorer 8x10 cameras - the tapered bed and the hardware on this Nagaoka actually make it more a copy of the original Phillips Compact 8x10, the one that came in "blond" finish.

[John Kasaian]

Made in India is very suspicious! Was the name sold to an Indian concern?

[Oren Grad]

Made in India is very suspicious! Was the name sold to an Indian concern?

Where do you see "Made in India"?

[Vaughn]

Beautiful camera -- I don't have clothes nice enough to be seen with it in public though.

The tapered bed had me wondering if it was warped!

I had an Indian knock-off of a Deardorf Special that I used for 5x7. One gets what one pays for usually.

[Drew Wiley]

When it comes to knockoffs, which are made to fool people to begin with, one would never see the actual country of origin on the label. I'm no expert on Nagoaka cameras by any means, but have seen knockoff Tachiharas and Dorffs made in India, so it was just a hunch on my part. I did read up a bit on Mr Nagaoka's biography, and his apprenticeship prior to his own business venture is a bit tenuous with respect to a fine woodworking background. "1911" might be just the heritage date of a general trade guild in that locality; but he certainly found his groove.

I personally use the original blonde version of the 8X10 Phillips - only the 9th camera he ever made - and actually prefer its simpler design to the later II version, although I replaced some of the original minor hardware pieces as my own tweak, and then discussed with Phillips what I had done and why. He took it in mind, but then partially redesigned the whole camera instead. It's one purchase I'll never regret.

[John Kasaian]

Where do you see "Made in India"?

My mistake. Darned cataracts! :mad:

[choiliefan]

Whatever happened to the art of crafting these cameras out of old-growth natural cherry wood?
These newer creations look like they were dipped in red dye #2.

[aphcl84]

After some research online and a few emails back and forth with the owner of a specialty camera shop in japan that I know, I believe I understand the confusion in this thread better. It turns out there are two Nagaoka camera brands. Nagaoka Seisakusho made by Keiichiro Nagaoka beginning in 1958, this is the brand that I'm familiar with. While Nagaoka Woody was a separate company of wooden view cameras established in 1911. This comes from the owner of the shop who says that he has sold both brands before.

[Oren Grad]

After some research online and a few emails back and forth with the owner of a specialty camera shop in japan that I know, I believe I understand the confusion in this thread better. It turns out there are two Nagaoka camera brands. Nagaoka Seisakusho made by Keiichiro Nagaoka beginning in 1958, this is the brand that I'm familiar with. While Nagaoka Woody was a separate company of wooden view cameras established in 1911. This comes from the owner of the shop who says that he has sold both brands before.

This does not sound correct. I wonder whether something is getting lost in translation.

My Nippon Camera annuals do not show two separate Nagaoka companies, only one. The Nagaoka view cameras that they list, all under the "Woody" brand, are attributed to Nagaoka Seisakusho (長岡製作所), which is the same company designation as on the old-style brand label on the "classic" Nagaoka cameras that many of us are familiar with. Also, the street address they provide for the company is AFAIK the same one in Ueno that Keiichiro Nagaoka used.

Can your correspondent provide more details that would help us sort this out? For example, formal company names and addresses.

EDIT: FWIW, the same camera shown in the eBay auction link posted by the OP is also currently listed on Yahoo Japan by a seller "ReRe Yahoo!ショッピング店" ("ReRe Yahoo shopping store"). In that listing the camera is attributed to 長岡製作所.

[sharktooth]

Here's a link to a 4x5 "Woody" in Japan https://sunrise-camera.net/products/detail/747 It has the same nameplate as the 8x10 Woody in the first post.

I can't find any pics of a Nagaoka Seisakusho badged camera that also has the "Woody" designation, so I suspect that they are indeed two different manufacturers as aphcl84 states. It's easy to see how the confusion could arise, since they are all generically "woody" cameras.

[Oren Grad]

Here's a link to a 4x5 "Woody" in Japan https://sunrise-camera.net/products/detail/747 It has the same nameplate as the 8x10 Woody in the first post.
I can't find any pics of a Nagaoka Seisakusho badged camera that also has the "Woody" designation...

The photo in the listing of that same Woody 45W model in my Nippon Camera annuals shows the old-style "Nagaoka Seisakusho" nameplate, and the camera is attributed to 長岡製作所 at the Ueno address.

[aphcl84]

This does not sound correct. I wonder whether something is getting lost in translation.

My Nippon Camera annuals do not show two separate Nagaoka companies, only one. The Nagaoka view cameras that they list, all under the "Woody" brand, are attributed to Nagaoka Seisakusho (長岡製作所), which is the same company designation as on the old-style brand label on the "classic" Nagaoka cameras that many of us are familiar with. Also, the street address they provide for the company is AFAIK the same one in Ueno that Keiichiro Nagaoka used.

Can your correspondent provide more details that would help us sort this out? For example, formal company names and addresses.

EDIT: FWIW, the same camera shown in the eBay auction link posted by the OP is also currently listed on Yahoo Japan by a seller "ReRe Yahoo!ショッピング店" ("ReRe Yahoo shopping store"). In that listing the camera is attributed to 長岡製作所.

I'll ask if he can provide any more details about the company, though if there is no official record of another Nagaoka brand then I have to wonder if he was just mistaken. He was a seller of used cameras rather than dealing directly with Mr. Nagaoka. Either way it will be interesting to know the truth, as the above camera design is a radical departure in materials, design, stain color and logo. If it was made by him I wonder why the change in design?

[Oren Grad]

I'll ask if he can provide any more details about the company, though if there is no official record of another Nagaoka brand then I have to wonder if he was just mistaken. He was a seller of used cameras rather than dealing directly with Mr. Nagaoka. Either way it will be interesting to know the truth, as the above camera design is a radical departure in materials, design, stain color and logo. If it was made by him I wonder why the change in design?

The particular sample shown in the eBay listing is indeed something of a conundrum, as it does differ in important details from the late-model 8x10 Woody with floating front standard that I was familiar with. Because it most closely mimics the earlier Phillips Compact rather than the later Compact II, I can only speculate that it was a transition model for Nagaoka. But so far I have no documentation to support that. It would sure be nice to have definitive information.

[sharktooth]

Here's a link to a Japanese interview with Mr. Nagaoka from 2020. https://serai.jp/hobby/1002833 You can use Google Translate to convert it to English, or other languages.

The first B&W picture shows Mr. Nagaoka with an 8x10 camera that has some significant similarities to the Woody camera in the original post. The rise/fall locking knobs look like the oblong wooden ones in the original post. The bed looks similar to the one in the original post, but there are some clear differences. It does look more like the 8x10 bed in the original post than the bed in the usual Nagaoka 8x10 however.

Mr. Nagaoka pointed out that he wasn't able to get many of his usual parts from external suppliers anymore, and had to make things himself. That could explain some of the design changes. He also explained that he was using a different type of wood, since the cherry he used to use was too rare and expensive now.

The only picture with a nameplate showed the old one with the Nagaoka Seisakusho badge, so there is still some uncertainty there, but it does seem reasonable that he could be using a new nameplate. The article also said that he was working for another camera builder before he set up his own company, so maybe that's the derivation of the 1911 date.

[Drew Wiley]

It is a really difficult question from mere pictures. For example, a web picture is no substitute for inspecting the actual wood grain up close. Cheaper cameras, especially from India, seem to have often used cheaper more abundant types of "hardwood". But then Sharktooth has just given an alternate reason for that possibility itself. And based on that picture of Mr Nagaoka holding one of his last made cameras, should his later camera design itself be classified as a discount knockoff - namely of Phillips? I'm a shooter, and not a camera collector, so all of this is merely academic to me, but fun with respect to me and numerous others being involved in fine woodworking ourselves, in one way or another. So I certainly admire Nagaoka's tenacity at least.

[Oren Grad]

OK, had a chance to go digging in my literature collection.

Here's a Nagaoka Seisakusho ad from the January, 2001 issue of Nippon Camera. Although it's a fuzzy little half-tone that doesn't scan too well, the camera shown on the far right has the new-style "Since 1911" labeling. The old- and new-style badges really do come from one and the same company.

For those who are curious, the cameras shown in this ad are pinhole cameras, though the text refers to his full range of hand-made cameras and accessories.

216104

[Oren Grad]

The article also said that he was working for another camera builder before he set up his own company, so maybe that's the derivation of the 1911 date.

The Google translation is pretty garbled, but if I'm parsing the Japanese correctly he essentially inherited the factory at which he had been working, as the owner did not have an heir. As the other employees left, he took on more and more of the actual camera building himself. I hope that someone who reads Japanese fluently can check me on that.

[aphcl84]

I heard back from the owner and he gave me the address for the supposed second company and it's the same location. I think sharktooth might have the right idea as to why the cameras changed so drastically.