210 for travel and landscape: Heliar or Schneider?

[otto.f]

I’m planning a trip for landscape photography by gravelbike with my Chamonix 4x5 equipment and want to bring my 150 and a 210. I have the Heliar 210, which is the lens with character and weighs 850gram (electronic shutter) and the Schneider MC nonAPO 210 which weighs 550gram and is fairly neutral and sharp, period. I like to cut on weight as much as possible. Thus far, I see the Heliar as a stills lens. Which lens would you prefer for this purpose?

[Tobias Key]

If I am travelling reliability is my overwhelming concern. So I would be very wary of taking a lens with an electronic shutter and it jiggling around in the pannier of a gravel bike. No point having a nice lens if it breaks.

[Alan9940]

You might look at a 210mm Schneider G-Claron or a 210mm Calumet (or Rodenstock equivalent) Caltar-II E. If you're not set on a 210 focal length, look at the 200mm Nikkor-M; a truly diminutive lens.

[lenicolas]

Bring the Schneider.

I’m in the same case of having two 210s : a Nikkor W f5.6 in a copal 1 and a late Docter Tessar f/4.5 in a copal 3.
At home I use the Tessar exclusively for its nice rendering, but if I’m carrying my gear somewhere I always pack the Nikkor.
Not sure I could tell the difference between them at f/11 anyway.

It kind of eats me up to have two 210s, but the Tessar is too good to sell yet too heavy to carry around.
Maybe one day I’ll switch the Nikkor for a 180mm, just to have a different focal length. I would swap it for a 240, but those are bigger and come in copal 3 shutters...

[Iga]

Hi Otto. I think you responded your question yourself , but here is my opinion - Heliars for portraits and still life. Landscapes you will shoot at f22 and higher, so no reason to charge with 300 gr extra.
BTW, I received today 210 Heliar in Compur electronic 3 shutter. Unfortunately shutter has some mechanical problem ...

Best wishes,

[otto.f]

Thanks to all of you! This was the little push I needed to choose with for the Schneider. Perhaps though I wonder what a 210 has more to say in landscape and I consider bringing my two lightweights 150 and 300 (Nikkor). They are less accident prone too than the heavier 210.

[otto.f]

Unfortunately shutter has some mechanical problem ...

Best wishes,

It sure is worth the patience to let it repaired or substitute the shutter, really love this lens. Hold on!

[Iga]

Trying to find repair manual
best !

[otto.f]

You might look at a 210mm Schneider G-Claron or a 210mm Calumet (or Rodenstock equivalent) Caltar-II E. If you're not set on a 210 focal length, look at the 200mm Nikkor-M; a truly diminutive lens.

Thanks, I dived into this because it really is compact, so I should have some space left for it. I found a Repro-Claron on a Linhof plate, is this very different? Looks excellent, seller asks 350€

[Michael_qrt]

Thanks, I dived into this because it really is compact, so I should have some space left for it. I found a Repro-Claron on a Linhof plate, is this very different? Looks excellent, seller asks 350€

The Repro-Claron is different from the G-Claron. It's a similar design to an Artar and many other process lenses and may not have sufficient coverage on 4x5 for landscapes. A G-Claron is a plasmat type process lens (or the more rare Dagor type early G-Clarons) with much more coverage (The 210mm G-Claron covers 8x10 stopped down at f/22 and beyond).

[angusparker]

Nikkor M 200mm f8 or Fujinon A 180 f9 - both lightweight, lots of coverage, but slow. If you are going to be in gloomy conditions then an f5.6 makes sense, perhaps the Fujinon 210mm f5.6 - with the lettering on the outside of the front element since it will be multicoated. The Fujinon 210mm f5.6 with inside lettering in an older copal shutter is single coated but just covers 8x10 so that is another option if you want to use it in a larger format.

[Bernice Loui]

Heilar works good for landscapes as does the Schneider. Question is the print results you're after. What makes the Heilar different is the out of focus rendition and transition from in to out of focus. The Heilar effect is good down to about f8-f11, once past f11 that personality of the Heilar is diminished what make the Heilar different from others. The Schneider plasmat is going to optimized for f22 everything in apparent focus lens. While f5.6 makes a bright image on the GG, price for that is physical size and weight. Going down to a full aperture f8 or f9 lens results in a significantly smaller lens and they are often everything in sort of focus at f22 lens much the same as the f5.6 Schneider plasmat.

Question of which one to use, depends completely on what your print image goals are. There is no ideal, just choices driven on needs and goals.


Bernice

[otto.f]

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?37554-Repro-Claron-f-9-210-mm/page1

I found here that it does cover 4x5, ?

[Drew Wiley]

Try the 200 Nikkor M. Very compact and plenty bright for outdoor shooting. Another especially compact option of very high optical quality would be the 210 G-Claron, already mentioned. Why travel with a lightweight 4x5 camera and match it with heavy lenses? No need. Remember to factor in the extra weight and bulk of larger filters needed for larger diameter lenses.

[lenicolas]

Try the 200 Nikkor M. Very compact and plenty bright for outdoor shooting. Another especially compact option of very high optical quality would be the 210 G-Claron, already mentioned.

Only on this forum does a guy who already owns two 210mm lenses and asks which one to pack gets advised to buy a third one. We are really the worst enablers of GAS.

[Drew Wiley]

You got it all wrong. The only focal length I have more than three of is 360 mm. I don't even own a 210 anymore, just the 200M, so something or someone in the universe has to balance that out.

[otto.f]

Only on this forum does a guy who already owns two 210mm lenses and asks which one to pack gets advised to buy a third one. We are really the worst enablers of GAS.

:) Go to the Leica forum, they advise you to collect four 35 Summicrons :D

[Willie]

If it is a question of weight you know the answer.

Reality is no matter which you choose you will find compositions where you will say "if only I had brought the other lens".

[otto.f]

Thanks to all, I decided for the Repro-Claron, having checked with the reliable seller that it covers 4x5. It’s real flat and the only Nikkor-M 200 I could find at the moment was quite expensive plus Japan customs.
@Willie: I know that feeling and pretend that. I have learned to live with it, but certainly good to remember. Anyways, this whole project is more a Zen and the art of motordriving thing, where process should be more important than result.

[otto.f]

Thanks to all, I decided for the Repro-Claron, having checked with the reliable seller that it covers 4x5. It’s real flat and the only Nikkor-M 200 I could find at the moment was quite expensive plus Japan customs.
@Willie: I know that feeling and pretend that I have learned to live with it, but certainly good to remember. Anyways, this whole project is more a Zen and the art of motordriving thing, where process should be more important than result.

[Drew Wiley]

Enjoy the drive !

[David Lindquist]

:) Go to the Leica forum, they advise you to collect four 35 Summicrons :D

I have three 8 1/4 inch Red Dot Artars. I have no idea why.

David

[John Kasaian]

I have three 8 1/4 inch Red Dot Artars. I have no idea why.

David

Just in case you have to send two in for a CLA you won't be left Artar-less

[J. Patric Dahlen]

Good choice, be happy with the Repro-Claron. I have never used one, but it should be sharp and neutral, good for most things. The Heliar is also a nice allround lens, especially if you want "3D-pop" or "air" in photos.



I have three 8 1/4 inch Red Dot Artars. I have no idea why.

Just in case you have to send two in for a CLA you won't be left Artar-less
Yes, being without an Artar when you need one isn't good for the Arteries.

[otto.f]

The Heliar is also a nice allround lens, especially if you want "3D-pop" or "air" in photos.

Yes I love it, it weighs almost 900 grams though, so I leave it at home for my still lifes.

[otto.f]

Enjoy the drive !

Thanks! Just one more wish left, dry weather and good light in one pack. Hard to find on eBay.

[esearing]

otto.f - Try doing something different with the lens on your trip, then you will be double rewarded for your decision. Sometimes we rely on our equipment rather than our artistry.

[otto.f]

otto.f - Try doing something different with the lens on your trip, then you will be double rewarded for your decision. Sometimes we rely on our equipment rather than our artistry.

Thanks! That’s a good incentive, which I won’t forget, I’m certain

[William Whitaker]

I like to cut on weight as much as possible.
Based on the info given, the Schneider will save you a cool 300g. So, if weight is a priority, as stated, it would seem that you answered your own question.

Me, personally, I'd chose a Heliar any day of the week. My 5x7 kit includes 3 Dagors of 170mm, 210mm and 240mm plus a 210mm Heliar in a Compound shutter...As well as a Schneider 121mm Super Angulon. So you can see that I'm hauling around a bit of weight. But it's still way, way lighter than an 8x10. And I love the 5x7 format.
I guess I really could probably get by with only one lens to save weight. And maybe someday I'll have to. That 170 is a featherweight.:)

[otto.f]

Yes that crossed my mind too, one Heliar 210 or the 150, 210 Claron and 300 together for the weight of ~one Heliar. I have three weeks left to wake up that one morning when I know what it’s gonna be.

[Jim Andrada]

I bought a 305 Repro Claron that I used on my 5 x 7 Kardan Bi in 1970. I loved it - I did a lot of fairly close-up photography - not quite macro, but close. I still love it even though it may be a bit radioactive - so I don't sleep with it under my pillow or carry it in my pants pocket. But it has nowhere near the character of a Heliar. One example from 1973

216241

[otto.f]

Thnx Jim, nice photo from a time we had a choice in color films!