View Full Version : What is the Most Difficult Large Format Photography
What is the most difficult photography?
Not the most difficult location, such as Mt Everest, deep sea, balloon aerial, warfare
Perhaps the demanding visual criteria of high cost homes, buildings for sale and expensive interiors of yachts, airplanes
Perhaps LF Studio cameras may be the only way to
Apple Park? (https://www.apple.com/retail/appleparkvisitorcenter/)
Gary Beasley
1-May-2021, 07:10
I would think LF macro work rates up there with the hard ones to do.
Nodda Duma
1-May-2021, 07:16
LF DSO or planetary astrophotography is ludicrously impossible enough that — with no exceptions I can think of — only large, professional observatories could accomplish it.
maltfalc
1-May-2021, 07:29
I would think LF macro work rates up there with the hard ones to do.
i'm planning to do some LF MICRO photography with living subjects at some point. wish me luck.
BrianShaw
1-May-2021, 09:27
Portraits. Too many critics and opinions.
neil poulsen
1-May-2021, 09:42
For me, definitely portraiture. I think that it all depend on one's own personality. I've done some nice portraits. But, I prefer photography where people are absent.
Portraits. Too many critics and opinions.
...or it is too easy. Landscapes can be the same way.
But basically, I'd say any image-making where time is an issue can be a challenge for LF.
Dan Fromm
1-May-2021, 10:36
i'm planning to do some LF MICRO photography with living subjects at some point. wish me luck.
You said MICRO. Do you mean working above 1:1 with an LF camera and its lens (macro or not) or with a microscope with a trinocular head or something equivalent?
If not with a microscope and the subjects are mobile, how do you plan to maintain focus and composition while inserting the film holder etc. ? I ask because I've fiddled with using focusing frames with a Graphic and gave up.
maltfalc
1-May-2021, 11:19
You said MICRO. Do you mean working above 1:1 with an LF camera and its lens (macro or not) or with a microscope with a trinocular head or something equivalent?
If not with a microscope and the subjects are mobile, how do you plan to maintain focus and composition while inserting the film holder etc. ? I ask because I've fiddled with using focusing frames with a Graphic and gave up.
i said MICRO in all caps to make it perfectly clear that i meant micro, with a microscope, not macro.
Bernice Loui
1-May-2021, 11:38
IMO, skip any view camera or this imaging need. Get a Leitz-Wild M420 with the lighting system needed and 4x5 film adapter if wanting to do film.
This image making system solved a LOT of problems with more optical capability than could ever be done using ANY view camera.. which is a lash-up at best.
215428
http://www.savazzi.net/photography/wild_leica_m420.htm
The very best solution to macro-micro image needs to date. Higher magnification with other illumination needs can be addressed
with different microscopes set up for a camera. Lighting is a SERIOUS issue with microscopes.
If stuck trying this with a view camera. Use a monorail camera with the object to be imaged mounted on some method of support and lighting on to the camera monorail. Stability, vibration, setting image ratios and magnification will be "interesting"..
Bernice
i said MICRO in all caps to make it perfectly clear that i meant micro, with a microscope, not macro.
Dan Fromm
1-May-2021, 12:39
Bernice, I've used an M420 and the older Photomakroscope. Using these and, if I've read the user manuals correctly, other photographic microscopes with 4x5 cameras built in (Reichert MF-2, for example) is like shooting with an SLR. These bon-bons aren't exactly SLRs, but they allow viewing the subject until, sometimes while, the shutter release is pressed. This isn't nearly as difficult as macrophotography of mobile subjects with a view camera.
maltfac, posters here use the common language quite loosely. Asking for clarification is almost always necessary. Thanks for clarifying what you're about. As Bernice pointed out and I echoed, with the right gear -- just about any 'scope with a photo tube -- what you want to do isn't very hard. Setting up and using the wrong gear, not so easy.
Eric Woodbury
1-May-2021, 13:18
Just making any really good image is difficult.
Hardest type of LF I've done was holography. If anything moves more than a few nanometers, the image is lost.
ic-racer
1-May-2021, 13:55
Animals & pets.
Action...
How about re-creating Halsman's shot of Dali in the studio??? Where 'ya need assistants to throw cats around... (Tip: cats always land on their feet...) ;-)
Steve K
Animals & pets.
In comparison, photographing triplets is easy...
maltfalc
1-May-2021, 15:21
IMO, skip any view camera or this imaging need. Get a Leitz-Wild M420 with the lighting system needed and 4x5 film adapter if wanting to do film.
This image making system solved a LOT of problems with more optical capability than could ever be done using ANY view camera.. which is a lash-up at best.
215428
http://www.savazzi.net/photography/wild_leica_m420.htm
The very best solution to macro-micro image needs to date. Higher magnification with other illumination needs can be addressed
with different microscopes set up for a camera. Lighting is a SERIOUS issue with microscopes.
If stuck trying this with a view camera. Use a monorail camera with the object to be imaged mounted on some method of support and lighting on to the camera monorail. Stability, vibration, setting image ratios and magnification will be "interesting"..
Bernice
i've got a speed graphic, a few basic student microscopes, a stereo zoom kyowa and an old as dirt ao spencer brewmaster with motorized focus and an lcd-based all-in-one darkfield, oblique, etc. filter... and zero budget for any new scopes or cameras. for lighting i'll probably be going with blue filtered flash and led.
Dan Fromm
1-May-2021, 16:04
i've got a speed graphic, a few basic student microscopes, a stereo zoom kyowa and an old as dirt ao spencer brewmaster with motorized focus and an lcd-based all-in-one darkfield, oblique, etc. filter... and zero budget for any new scopes or cameras. for lighting i'll probably be going with blue filtered flash and led.
Hmm. IIRC the standard monocular 'scope tube diameter is ~ 24 mm. There are inexpensive lensless "microscope adapters" for 35 mm SLRs. One might fit your basic student scopes. You could probably adapt one of the adapters to a Graphic board, but unless you can rig a beamsplitter for viewing you'd be shooting blind. How do you plan to manage that?
I have two stereo scopes at home, a Unitron and a B&L and have the use of a Leica SMZ 125 in the museum where I have a courtesy appointment. Also have access to Wild M-5s and a variety of other stereo scopes there. Haven't been able to find a way to attach a camera to any of them. Their eyepiece tubes are all too large to mount a cheapie lensless adapter or the nice Nikon one with lens that I've had for years.
FWIW, one of our visitors got what our curator emeritus said were "publication quality" shots by holding a cell phone's lens over a stereo scope's eyepiece. Remember, what matters is that you get usable images of your subjects. How you get them is secondary. Try y'r cell phone. My cheapie took poor shots through an eyepiece, but trying's cheap.
Thinking of subjects, please tell us a little about the moving subjects you want to shoot.
Now that I think of it, another problem for you to solve is mounting your Graphic so that it transfers no vibration to the 'scope.
tgtaylor
1-May-2021, 17:06
Outdoor photography of a subject with tricky exposure on a breezy day with a heavy 810 camera with a 760mm lens mounted in an Ilex shutter that uses the old speed settings. Made the classic error yesterday when I set when the meter called for f22.7 @ 1/30” and I used f/22 at 1/25”. Should have went the other way, f/32+, and the negative came out too overexposed for a Kallitype print but there was no vibration from the wind which was a steady 15mph gusting to 21mph. I shielded the camera with a golf umbrella and tripped the shutter when a wind gust subsided and a passing cloud/fog cleared the sun.
Thomas
8x10" stereo dry-plate tri-color action photography, using flash powder, underwater.
:p
maltfalc
1-May-2021, 20:48
Hmm. IIRC the standard monocular 'scope tube diameter is ~ 24 mm. There are inexpensive lensless "microscope adapters" for 35 mm SLRs. One might fit your basic student scopes. You could probably adapt one of the adapters to a Graphic board, but unless you can rig a beamsplitter for viewing you'd be shooting blind. How do you plan to manage that?
I have two stereo scopes at home, a Unitron and a B&L and have the use of a Leica SMZ 125 in the museum where I have a courtesy appointment. Also have access to Wild M-5s and a variety of other stereo scopes there. Haven't been able to find a way to attach a camera to any of them. Their eyepiece tubes are all too large to mount a cheapie lensless adapter or the nice Nikon one with lens that I've had for years.
FWIW, one of our visitors got what our curator emeritus said were "publication quality" shots by holding a cell phone's lens over a stereo scope's eyepiece. Remember, what matters is that you get usable images of your subjects. How you get them is secondary. Try y'r cell phone. My cheapie took poor shots through an eyepiece, but trying's cheap.
Thinking of subjects, please tell us a little about the moving subjects you want to shoot.
Now that I think of it, another problem for you to solve is mounting your Graphic so that it transfers no vibration to the 'scope.
two of my student scopes are this type.
215453
the top screws off so i can just use direct projection straight up through my speed graphic with no obstructions. with the other monocular scopes i can just use eyepiece projection. i'll use the ground glass for viewing. i can switch off an led, load a film holder and trigger a flash pretty fast. i won't need to use the shutter and the flash should take care of any residual shaking from loading the film holder. i'll skip trying the cell phone. if i want digital photos i'll go back to using my dslr and the camera mount i made for the ao spencer. the subjects will be whatever i find in the nearest ditch.
maltfalc
1-May-2021, 21:58
8x10" stereo dry-plate tri-color action photography, using flash powder, underwater.
:p
well, i know underwater large format photography of moving subjects has been done with a graflex slr and if i remember right they used a massive amount of flash powder rigged up on a floating platform. panchromatic 8x10 dry plates wouldn't be easy or cheap to get, but it's doable. tri-colour's doable with three plates and a beam-splitter, or one plate and the rgb filter layer from an lcd monitor. stereo's easy. you just need two lenses, one with a blue filter and one with a yellow filter, or red and cyan. gimme six months, an unlimited budget, some nude models and a shark and i'll make it happen. :P
Dan Fromm
2-May-2021, 07:14
... i'll use the ground glass for viewing. i can switch off an led, load a film holder and trigger a flash pretty fast. ... the subjects will be whatever i find in the nearest ditch.
Good luck. Whether you're quick enough is an empirical question. After you've answered it, please tell us what you learned.
I last looked at such creatures when I was around 7. Our GP lent me a nice Zeiss scope ... Paramecia, rotifers, cladocerans, copepods, nematodes and such move quite rapidly. I never found a Volvox. You might want to think about sedating your subjects.
Jim Jones
2-May-2021, 07:25
Increasing camera size also increases difficulties: http://robroy.dyndns.info/lawrence/mammoth.html
Heroique
2-May-2021, 12:00
From a psychology angle, my biggest difficulty is setting up, and deciding not to take the shot when the composition just isn’t there. It’s much easier to take a shot anyway for a false sense of accomplishment.
maltfalc
2-May-2021, 12:16
Good luck. Whether you're quick enough is an empirical question. After you've answered it, please tell us what you learned.
I last looked at such creatures when I was around 7. Our GP lent me a nice Zeiss scope ... Paramecia, rotifers, cladocerans, copepods, nematodes and such move quite rapidly. I never found a Volvox. You might want to think about sedating your subjects. volvox thrive around here. a bit of methyl cellulose will slow everything down if i have any issues.
There are technical hurdles that can be solved with unlimited funds and time, that doesn't make the resulting shot 'difficult' per se, just expensive. Some that I would call difficult are the high-speed shots freezing bullets as they pierced balloons, that required inventing a whole new camera system, high speed triggers, etc. But this is using photography for technical purposes, not what we understand as photography, the art of.
The most difficult shots I've ever attempted with LF were owls in dense forest cover. Then I got the idea of using owls in a bird refuge to capture the bird picking up a mouse from the forest floor, staged of course in a cage with the trainer. I had the contacts to do it, I had already shot many of the raptors at the St-Hyacinthe vet school east of Montreal. I just needed a portable flash system, a large enough cage, and a trainer willing to work half the night with me. And a few mice. In the end I had health issues and had to abandon animal photography altogether, plus with the Internet and everyone stealing your photos instead of paying for them, I had little incentive to take it up again. Much less in LF. I have done live turtles and frogs etc. in the years since, just for fun. Few zoos or aquariums will allow you to set up tripods and a LF camera, but I do know of one.
Action...
How about re-creating Halsman's shot of Dali in the studio??? Where 'ya need assistants to throw cats around... (Tip: cats always land on their feet...) ;-)
Steve K
I always wondered about that. The cats of my acquaintance would have had a sense of humour failure before the third 'take'. Are there highly-trained stunt-cats available somewhere??!! Or possibly each cat performed only once, picked randomly from a large number of artistes . . .
I always wondered about that. The cats of my acquaintance would have had a sense of humour failure before the third 'take'. Are there highly-trained stunt-cats available somewhere??!! Or possibly each cat performed only once, picked randomly from a large number of artistes . . .
I have an old saying; "For enough $$$, ANYTHING is available"...
Steve K
When I was a student at RIT enrolled in the BioMedical Photography program of studies, I did all my Photomicrography assignments with my 8x10. I remember standing on the lab countertop looking down on the GG of my 8x10 B&J Commercial view camera, and using my big toe to focus with the fine focus adjustment knob. No one told me at the time that doing photomicrography with an 8x10 was difficult.
Ben Calwell
10-May-2021, 05:22
Photographing when your non-photographer wife is with you, so you rush things and make such rookie mistakes as forgetting to close the shutter before pulling dark slide. Happened to me this past weekend.
Alan Klein
10-May-2021, 05:50
Photographing when your non-photographer wife is with you, so you rush things and make such rookie mistakes as forgetting to close the shutter before pulling dark slide. Happened to me this past weekend.
Yeah. I can't go out to shoot with my wife. I'm rushing all the time.
Dan Fromm
10-May-2021, 07:21
When I was a student at RIT enrolled in the BioMedical Photography program of studies, I did all my Photomicrography assignments with my 8x10. I remember standing on the lab countertop looking down on the GG of my 8x10 B&J Commercial view camera, and using my big toe to focus with the fine focus adjustment knob. No one told me at the time that doing photomicrography with an 8x10 was difficult.
Greg, there's a big difference between shooting prepared slides and tiny mobile organisms.
Ray Van Nes
10-May-2021, 08:25
Wind. I live in Southern Alberta - very windy at times. Had to rebuild my 5 x 12 last year when I took my hand for a second to reach something and it went over.
Warm Winter
18-May-2021, 21:33
Go adlibs to make a bad situation worse.
Photomicrographs on ULF in extreme wind in Antarctica handheld.
Portraits but the photographer is blind and doesn't have an assistant.
Paper negatives but someone plays a prank when loading and reverses the paper.
Getting to use a nice wood camera but then they reveal it's a kit and you have to assemble it before using it.
On the serious note the worst for me has always been when I am rushed or am being rushed or having to try and field various questions while setting up a picture. It's not even that I mind their curiosity or anything, it's just I can't split my focus that well and end up feeling really stressed.
Wind. I live in Southern Alberta - very windy at times. Had to rebuild my 5 x 12 last year when I took my hand for a second to reach something and it went over.
I'm guessing you work with a higher ISO film.
Photo Micro work at 200-500 times lifesize?
Long bellows required and rock solid specialty cameras generally using Glass Plate film.
Jim Noel
14-Jul-2021, 11:10
Good for you Greg.
I think one of the most difficult things for me is sorting out the "best" image from everything around me when I am out with the camera.
The kind that can only be done with a camera, lens and film you don't have?
John Layton
16-Sep-2021, 08:51
Oh…dear. My assignment from hell.
17 year old kid wanted me to photograph a pencil drawing for part of his art school application. Had to be on location as the drawing was huge (8X10 feet), and he wanted a black and white print as a final product - so I packed up my 4x5 gear plus my Norman flash system.
When I got to his house, his mother answered the door - dressed in her bathrobe and slippers, dark bags under her eyes…coughing and sneezing up a storm, and also apparently quite hung over. She directed me down to the basement…where I found her son (also sneezing a coughing), pencil in hand, still working on the large drawing which I’d been hired to photograph. “I’m not quite done, so could you please wait?”
As I began to set up my gear, the kids younger brother (7 or 8 years old) suddenly appeared with a basketball…which he then proceeded to bounce all over the place - threatening to destroy my lighting setup. When I cautioned him to be careful, he asked, “are you a photographer?” When I said yes, he then said “loser!” and continued to bounce the ball around…but now with added gusto.
And that 8x10 foot pencil drawing? It was apparently created using a very fine, very light grey pencil - and even as I looked closely it was difficult to discern any detail, to say nothing of how impossible this seemed when considering the whole of the drawing at once.
So…I did a series of “hail Mary’s” - massively underexposed negatives (along with a couple of “normal” ones), which I then proceeded to massively over develop…and I actually managed to get a decent result!
But then - actually getting paid…even after the kid had agreed to my earlier quote (“but…this is for just one picture?!”). I ultimately had to go above his head to his mother…who, fortunately by then (or not?), was quite sober!
Oh…dear. My assignment from hell.
Revising my previous answer: anything that requires me to talk to people. There's a reason I photograph swamps and trees.
Drew Wiley
16-Sep-2021, 16:51
Inside a nuclear reactor facility "hot zone". It's been done. Remote servo-style view camera controls, of course, and not using film per se for the capture.
Michael Graves
17-Sep-2021, 09:15
Weddings. The only person harder to please than the bride, is the bride's mother.
trekkin
18-Sep-2021, 14:56
I've always thought it was really difficult to make landscapes get up and dance. What in a landscape can provoke an emotional response? This is really hard for me to figure out and after decades and thousands of frames shot I have rarely been successful.
Not the most difficult, I suppose, just a lot of work. Just got back from a two night backpack with the 5x7. I made the mistake of weighing all the photo components before I left...just shy of 30 pounds. (9 film holders, one lens, Eastman View No.2, old Gitzo pod, spot meter, etc). Exposed all 5 holders of TMax400...did not get to the 4 holders of FP4. First half of the last day was in the rain. A bit strange carrying a ~55 pound pack back up the mountain to the van. I did manage to eat just about all 6 pounds of food, so I did not have to carry that weight back up!
Trekkin...the light!
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