View Full Version : Anyone miss the flame wars?

Kirk Gittings
4-Feb-2006, 10:56
We have all been amazingly civil these days. I miss some of the good arguments but not the nastiness that went with it.

4-Feb-2006, 10:57
there's no pleasing some people!

Ron Marshall
4-Feb-2006, 10:59
I also don't miss the nastiness, but I have to admit they were entertaining.

Walt Calahan
4-Feb-2006, 11:04
Thank goodness I didn't go out an buy an internet fire extinguisher, but I was ready. HA!

Oren Grad
4-Feb-2006, 11:05
Keep an eye on the TMY thread. It's showing some promise. ;-)

Alan Davenport
4-Feb-2006, 11:19
I miss some of the good arguments...

Maybe you need to work on your aim!

Brian Ellis
4-Feb-2006, 11:40
If you want to get things started, I have some suggestions:

(1) Ask whether film is really dead or if it isn't, how long it will be around.

(2) Tell us that you've seen ink jet prints that are indistinguishable from platinum.

(3) Say, or even remotely suggest, that some ink jet prints might be as "archival" as some traditional darkroom prints.

(4) Offer something for sale.

(5) Ask You Know Who to tell us that there's too much emphasis on the science of photography.

Kevin M Bourque
4-Feb-2006, 12:03
I don't miss flame wars at all. Very distracting. I really appreciate being able to read this forum without running in to a pile of bile. I know that bile doesn't come in piles, but the rhyme was irresistible.

You're right Brian, there's some sure-fire topics for flame war ignition. Ahem.....

"Brand X lenses are the best in the world (especially the 135mm APO-Necronomicon). If that isn't obvious to you, you shouldn't be wasting your time (and ours) by taking pictures. You can't take a good picture with a Brand Y or Z. Take them outside and smash them right now....go ahead, I'll wait".

Ah, OK, now I feel better. :-)

Ralph Barker
4-Feb-2006, 12:07
Miss the flame wars? In a word, no.

But, we did a CLA on the delete key, just in case. ;-)

neil poulsen
4-Feb-2006, 12:18
Not one I-O-Ta!

4-Feb-2006, 12:25
I'll second Neil's comment! :)

Who needs the flame wars?

I'm here to share and learn about LF photography! :)


David Karp
4-Feb-2006, 12:29
Not at all.

And that TMAX400 thread is a great example of people who can disagree without things turning into a heated exchange. Not only that, its pretty interesting too.

4-Feb-2006, 12:41
right, the fun is gone...

4-Feb-2006, 12:53
"Keep an eye on the TMY thread. It's showing some promise. ;-)"


I am surprised to see you say such a thing! Are you about to say something nasty on that thread?


4-Feb-2006, 12:59

Oooops. I see that you did say something about pyro. Now there is a word we can hang our hat on to start a flame war.

Oren Grad
4-Feb-2006, 13:06
Nope. Sorry, that was probably a bit gratuitous, especially because everyone engaged on that one so far has stuck with the wise "criticize the argument, not the arguer" rule.

The TMY vs HP5 Plus thing has an unfortunate extra edge these days because of the underlying fear that there may not be enough room for both in the tiny niche market for odd-size films. But it looks like we've dodged that bullet at least for now, which is fabulous. Let many different films continue to thrive!

Ed K.
4-Feb-2006, 13:07
Why not simply listen to some of the Monty Python - " I came here for an argument..."

Oren Grad
4-Feb-2006, 13:09
Not to worry, although I'm not a pyromaniac, nor do I stomp around brandishing a pyro-extinguisher. :-)

That would be a good one to add to Brian's list, though.

Scott Fleming
4-Feb-2006, 13:18
I've never made it past about the third post in a flame war. I just click on over to somewhere else. Or something else.

tim atherton
4-Feb-2006, 13:29
Hmmm Frenchy tripods anyone... ;-)

Michael Kadillak
4-Feb-2006, 14:32
When we all respect each others opinions, state our direct experiences and how we have arrived at them and stay on point (not letting the discussion get personal) we are all better for it and it is the reason that we tune in. Plus the odds are pretty good that we will learn something in the process.

In any event, I have a bottle of the bubbly for when my TMY arrives.

Long live LF!


David Karp
4-Feb-2006, 15:04
Yup. It sure is great.

I don't do ULF and probably never will do ULF. I really like HP5+, never did like TMAX400. Nevertheless, I have seen some wonderful photographs made with TMAX400, and I have proved repeatedly that it is possible to make a bad photograph with any kind of film. No matter what, that film thread is very interesting. It is always good to see what other photographers are thinking, what they are using, and how they are using it. You never know when you might get a lead on a "magic bullet." But that's another thread entirely . . . .

Scott Fleming
4-Feb-2006, 15:23
Actually Tim I think my 'Schneider Only' thread stirred more _____. I wasn't counting the flame wars I've STARTED. Only other people's. Notice I haven't had any blurts lately. I've learned to husband my rescources.

Frank Petronio
4-Feb-2006, 16:13
Nuke 'em. The nasty threads I mean.

4-Feb-2006, 16:39
Regardless of how hostile and rude some on this list can be at times, this demonstrates that most everyone here has good sense of humor as well.....

BTW, how does one follow a thread, without replying to it? Or is that not possible?

Kirk Keyes
4-Feb-2006, 17:15
The 135mm APO-Necronomicon - isn't that the lens that Witkin prefers, right?

I was thinking of going to Guanajuato, Mexico, to photograph some of the bodies at the Museo de las Momias, and I was thinking that if that lens was good enough for Witkin, it should be good enough for me.

BTW - does anyone here know if I can find a 135mm APO-Necronomicon in Mexico, or should I get one here. And does the APO one give more life to the dead, or should I stick with the older, uncoated 135mm Necronomicon?


4-Feb-2006, 18:04
"BTW - does anyone here know if I can find a 135mm APO-Necronomicon in Mexico, or should I get one here. And does the APO one give more life to the dead, or should I stick with the older, uncoated 135mm Necronomicon? "

Don't know about the lens, but if you were to advertise locally you might be able to locate a 135 lb necrophiliac. Depending on the size of your market sample of course. Such a person would certainly present you with many unique photograhic opportunities in the mummy museum in Guanjuato.

Jack Flesher
4-Feb-2006, 19:31
What kind of F-ing stupid-A$$ moronic question is this?

*huge grin*

Warren Weckesser
4-Feb-2006, 20:55
A lens... for bodies? You need a docter.

Oren Grad
4-Feb-2006, 21:13
Uh oh... delusions of Grandeurgon...

Lee Hamiel
4-Feb-2006, 21:23
I am a recent member & when I first joined I was quite pleased with the civil & great information that I was able to learn from.

I do not miss the flame wars per se but will suggest that discussions are either overly conservative or way out there (sounds like American politics) & it would be nice if people would realize that it's okay to disagree with a certain viewpoint & to offer a different perspective is acceptable. We do not have to be so attached to our opinions & feel that any differing opinions are an affront to our sensibilities & that we have to defend them to the bitter end. This usually results in personal attacks & goes downhill quickly.

The premise of a forum is to invite various thoughts and viewpoints to a variety of subjects & educate & enlighten.

So often - with regards to arguments - people tend to be determined to convince the other party to side with them or ...

All of this over an artistic endeavor.

When I have the need to be aggressive I play mens league hockey or do something physical.

When I have something useful to contribute I will try to do so.

I think there are a lot of wise & skilled photographers that would consider contributing but feel like what's the point - I don't need the attitude going on in the forums.

I don't blame them & hence we all miss out out some useful input at times.

tim atherton
4-Feb-2006, 21:50
you can always pop over to APUG and catch whatever the latest AZO thread is if you need a fix

4-Feb-2006, 22:18

Is that a try at humour or are you trying to start a flame from behind a rock?

I also visit daily APUG and AZO is not mentioned anymore than any other genuine photographic tool.

Kirk Gittings
4-Feb-2006, 22:25
I have to say that some of those pyromaniac discussions of old were stimulating enough to make me rethink some of my 25 year old way of doing things (ZS vs. BTZS, Godzilla vs, Rodan etc.). It takes a really big fire breathing lizard sometimes to make me think sometimes (latin names withheld). It strikes me that the TM400 discussion is not at at all a name calling flame war but a great example of the kind of healthy disagreement between knowledgeable contributers that really gets me thinking enough to try something new.

tim atherton
4-Feb-2006, 23:03
Steve - almost every time one of MAS's AZO or publishing schemes comes up you need to make sure you are wearing Nomex.

Last one ran to 205 posts and 10,987 views before it was locked down

Mind you Sean will have his Star Chamber up and running soon - so all should be quiet and peaceful across there

Frank Petronio
5-Feb-2006, 09:21
I appreciate the limited moderation here. It actually let some of the angry people burn themselves out.

David Karp
5-Feb-2006, 21:19
Darn it Kirk. How can you even consider Rodan. Its Gamera or nothing. And then only if souped in D-76 diluted 1:1.375 and semi-stand developed to a density of .00035 to the power of 10 as measured with Speed Racer's Dad's nuclear densitometerblaster.

Kirk Gittings
5-Feb-2006, 22:15
Yeah Gamera was cool too. As a kid I always wanted one of those lizard suites.

Michael Mutmansky
6-Feb-2006, 07:20
Well, I guess attempts at worthwhile discussion may be pointless.

I don't participate in flame wars, and as the TMY discusson has begun to devolve into that...