Focal Lengths with movements for Tachihara 4x5

[mshannon]

Good evening. I am new to large format photography and recently bought a Tachihara 4x5 field camera. I would appreciate the help on what range of focal lengths will work with this camera to help me narrow my search for my first lens or two.

I am a newer member and unable to access the buy/sell section of the forum but would greatly enjoy any feedback that is willing to be given.

Thank you in advance.

Matt

[Jim Noel]

Look for lenses in good shutters in the 150mm-210mm range. If you want a wider view go to 90mm.

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. Pick the focal length you want and then look for a lens with that focal length and enough coverage. In post #2 above, Jim Noel suggested some focal lengths that are commonly used on 4x5. Thing is, not all lenses with those focal lengths will cover 4x5.

[Mark Sampson]

I had a 4x5 Tachihara for ten years. I successfully used 90mm lenses (wide angle) and a 300/9 Nikkor-M (long). Mr. Noel's advice above is good.

[Mark Sawyer]

If you go with a bag bellows and/or recessed lensboard, you can use an even shorter focal length with movements. If you use a telephoto lens, you can use a longer lens than the standard bellows will allow. But I agree with Dan, let your vision decide your focal lengths.

[Ari]

There are lenses that range from 47mm up to 300mm, 600mm and beyond that cover 4x5.
Some of those lenses will offer more movements on 4x5 because they make a larger image circle when light goes through them.
What Jim said is good advice. Start simple, with a normal, long or wide lens.
This page is for 4x5 lenses: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html

[Huub]

There is a pretty steep learning curve involved with using large format, with all kinds of specific terminology. This website contains a huge amount of good information on it an dyou might want to read the introduction to large format lenses to get a good idea about what you might need: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses-primer/ Jims advise is good: almost any lens in the focal lengts between 150mm and 210mm with a large enough image circle and a properly working shutter will do.

[Doremus Scudder]

Matt,

"Focal lengths with movements" is a bit ambiguous. Are you looking for lenses with a large enough image circle and a long enough focal length to take full advantage of all the movements possible on your camera?

Or are you looking for lenses that will allow you to use movements without running into limitations from crimped bellows, etc.?

These are two different, but related problems. Field cameras like the Tachihara often won't allow much in the way of movements with shorter focal length lenses (e.g., 90mm and shorter) even if they have a large image circle. The compressed bellows restricts the available movements. This can be ameliorated in a couple of ways (if shorter focal lengths are what you're looking to use with lots of movements). First, as mentioned already, is to get a bag bellows or a "universal"-type bellows (that has a combination of pleated and bag bellows) to reduce the bellows crimping. Second is to use a recessed lensboard so that you are working with more bellows extension to begin with. Both of these things together works very well for me.

However, if you are just trying to find out which lenses have large enough image circles to allow movements, here are a few general observations:

First, most lenses intended for use with 4x5 format of 150mm or longer will have an image circle generous enough to allow movements. Yes, as Dan mentions above, there are lenses in these focal lengths that won't even cover 4x5, but as long as you look for Plasmats (a lens design) from the "big four" manufacturers, you'll be fine. These are designated: Schneider Symmar (or any variant of that, e.g., Apo-Symmar), Rodenstock Sironar (or variations thereof, e.g., Apo-Sironar S), Nikkor W and Fujinon W (the "W" means "wide" as in larger image circle).

Plasmat lenses in the 125-135mm range allow some movements; usually more than adequate for landscape, but often not enough for architectural work where lots of front rise is needed.

Shorter lenses 90mm and shorter need to be designed to cast an even larger image circle to offer much in the way of movements. These lenses are larger and have the designation "SW" (super-wide) or "Super Angulon" from Schneider or "Grandagon" from Rodenstock (or variations thereof). 90mm examples of these kinds of lenses often have very generous image circles. However, as the focal length gets shorter, the image circle shrinks. A 75mm lens of this design allows only a little movement; a 65mm usually covers 4x5 barely, with little in the way of movement available.

There are numerous other specialty lens designs as well. There are online resources (this forum's home page for one) with lots of information about lenses and their coverage. I recommend you seek those out and familiarize yourself with them.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Ulophot]

One thing I don't think anyone has referenced, is that the 4x5 Tachihara does not feature interchngeable bellows, as far as I know. Mark, above, said he successfully used a 90 on a Tachihara; as you may realize, both back and from standards can be move toward each other for shorter focal lengths (I move my back forward when I mount my 135). I have not used a universal bellows, but a regular bag bellows, in my experience with a monorail, would not generally be adequate for a 210, at least at shorter subject distances.

If you do replace the bellows, it will, I believe, require ungluing the current ones and mounting the new, something you may be comfortable doing; I would not (I'm not a woodworker) and would have to send it out. Folks here can help you with advice on that if needed.

[diversey]

I have a Tachihara 4x5 camera too. The camera bellows is not removable. I have used the lenses from 47mm XL to telephoto 400mm. I prefer to have light weight lenses for this camera. For general use, 1st choice is a 150mm lens, 2nd choice is a 90mm lens.

[Mark Sawyer]

I have a Tachihara 4x5 camera too. The camera bellows is not removable...

Too bad, I'd have thought the bag bellows would be an option on any modern 4x5. Still, a recessed lensboard will help.

[William Whitaker]

Fred Picker of Zone VI fame used to recommend a 210mm lens and a lens in the 120mm range. I think the 121mm Super Angulon was his favorite.
Being a fan of Zone VI at that time (early 1980's) and just starting out, I followed his advice and my first lens was a 210mm f/5.6 Nikkor-W. That was a great lens. I think my second lens was a 90mm, f/8, Super Angulon. Not because I wanted wider, but because it was available used at the local camera store for (I think) $200.
Well, in all honesty, it really was a bit wide for my taste. Later I went to 120mm and personally found it more usable.
But YMMV.
It always does.

My camera then (and my first view camera) was a Wista 45DX. This was Wistas contribution to the market and paralleled closely the Tachihara, which at that time was enjoying great popularity. The bellows was not removable or interchangeable. It was just a simple straight-forward camera. And the lenses from 90mm to 210mm and maybe up to 240mm worked just fine.
The nice thing about the 120 and the 210 is that it compares favorably to a 35mm and a 60mm on 135. That is, slightly wide and slightly long, encompassing a wide variety of subjects. For me, the 210mm was perfect. And I'm so glad I started with that. If I were to ever go back to 4x5, I'd do the same thing again.
Really, just pick something and get started. It won't be the last lens you buy. And you'll find your own way!

[Maris Rusis]

I've used a Tachihara 45GF for more than thirty years and the lens set for it has come down to 90mm, 135mm, and 210mm. In the landscape and portrait work that I do I've never run out of camera movements or wished for a bag bellows. Lens focal length is remarkably uncritical provided the subject matter fits on the ground glass. Modern lenses are so good and modern 4x5 negative film is so generous it is possible, for example, to crop a 400mm view out of a 210mm lens image and do it with high picture quality.

[Kevin Crisp]

Not knowing what you want to photograph makes it tough.

If I had to pick just one lens, I'd get a multicoated 135.

For that camera, which I used for years, I got along very well with a 120/150/210 set. I had a 90mm, which is what many people would have suggested for the wide angle, but I rarely used it.

[Doremus Scudder]

@OP,

You can see how different we all are in approach and preferences when it comes to lenses.

I use primarily Wista DXs with just the standard bellows. I use lenses from 75mm to 300mm on it. I have enough movements with recessed boards to vignette the 75mm and 90mm lenses I use, but it takes a bit of bellows crimping to get there. The 300mm is on a top-hat lensboard.

I would imagine that the Tachihara would perform similarly and would make a good all-round field camera with a suitable assortment of lenses.

FWIW, my most used lenses are the 135mm and 90mm lenses, followed closely lenses in the 180mm-240mm range.

Best,

Doremus

[Ben Calwell]

I, too, use a Wista DX. I use a small 210mm f6.8 from Caltar and a 90mm Nikkor 90mm f8. Those two lenses have served me well for many decades.

[mshannon]

Thank you everyone for your valuable input!

I have done a ton of reading over the last few days when I had time (just finished working 60 hours with little down time.) Sometimes it is difficult as different sources will contradict each other - but this forum has been a big blessing on moving in the right direct - thank you guys/gals again.

For LF 4x5, I am interested in landscapes, some architectural work, and occasional portraits.

My father in law is an architect and I would love to be able to gift him a nice print or two of some nice architectural work as he appreciates that.

I am also the photographer for my fire department (when time allows) and would love to do some pictures of the stations (architectural) and apparatus for my son's nursery.

[Doremus Scudder]

... For LF 4x5, I am interested in landscapes, some architectural work, and occasional portraits.

My father in law is an architect and I would love to be able to gift him a nice print or two of some nice architectural work as he appreciates that.

I am also the photographer for my fire department (when time allows) and would love to do some pictures of the stations (architectural) and apparatus for my son's nursery.

If you are interested in doing architectural work with a field camera and need to keep your lenses lightweight, allow me to recommend the Nikkor SW 90mm f/8. It has the largest image circle for lenses of its size. There are many 90mm lenses with larger maximum apertures (f/5.6 or f/4.5) that have large image circles as well, but they are larger, and don't fit on recessed boards well (which you'll likely need for your Tachi) and are a bit heavy for use on lightweight wooden cameras.

There are other 90mm f/8 lenses, like the Super Angulons and the Fujinon SW as well as the Rodenstock Grandagon f/6.8 that are about the same size as the Nikkor. All these are great lenses, but they don't have as large an image circle as the Nikkor. I find the larger image circle really helpful when doing architectural work.

Best,

Doremus