Forum large scale project - one stop source of historic lf photographers

[pdmoylan]

The history of LF photographers is mostly fractured on-line with frequently limited image samples of prominent (and lesser known) greats. The quality of images is in some cases questionable (i.e. Porter's images from Carter museum), and though some are well presented by such groups a Getty and the individual's website, I am not aware of a "prime source" for extensive and high quality image presentations.

A thought came while sleeping (love the dream state) as to whether this forum could/would be willing to take on the creation of an extensive and comprehensive educational tool of say at least 100 (or more) LF photographers whose work found acclaim , whether the result of fine art, commercial/studio/portrait, architectural, landscape etc. There is the issue of writing bios and placing that photogs work in context of the period and impact overall.

There is the issue of copyrights which would have to be researched for foreign image takers (Japan for instance), then approaching each source for rights to use and/or link to images. We could simply accumulate all references and links from elsewhere on this forum into one Educational Section, perhaps editing prior posts with new material (if that is possible) and new links.

I recognize that such an endeavor would likely require much greater database and speed capability, not just because of new data, but from an expectation of much increased activity from new members and non-member perusal.

Specific photographers could be assigned to members who are willing to participate, and a group of editors established to review the material prior to final posts.

Comments and other considerations welcome. This may not be feasible, but wouldn't it be great to have a single source for LF on the entire internet and say quintessential images from each in good quality for viewing?

[Tin Can]

Go right ahead

I no longer worship heros

[pdmoylan]

So historic content should be about events and not individuals who had an impact - I wasn't expecting a "counter culture" response, but it is trending (or at least was).

[GRAYnomad]

Even if it's feasible that sounds like a MASSIVE task, I'm not sure who would be willing to take on even a part of it.

Personally my focus ( :D ) is on doing my own projects and taking my own photos, I like to look at old pics for many reasons, but at my age I ain't got time to work on grandiose projects, sure if it gets done I'll drop in and have a browse, but I suspect most people would think the same.

Such a project requires a VERY passionate prime mover willing to spend a lot of time (years?) pushing and pushing and doing the grunt work at the exclusion of most other things in their life. If that's you then great, but now you have to find "members who are willing to participate, and a group of editors established to review the material prior to final posts", maybe another 10 or 20 people with the same passion plus someone well versed in copyright law as well.

There's a Farcebook group called "Legends of the Old West", lately one of the members has been posting a heap of images from around 1900 by Solomon Butcher. These are amazing to look at and very high-quality repros, so I can see the attraction to the end results of such a project, it's just the huge workload it would entail...

[jp]

luminous-lint.com seems to be working on something similar... It's a subscription thing now..

I love photo history personally, but don't have time to be both photographer and fully go down the rabbit hole of historian. (and have family, job, etc..)

[pdmoylan]

Good, well is anyone willing to provide an initial list of say 100 (let's think beyond US borders as well), country (this is tough as many cross borders or lived in multiple countries) and with each their best known genre (i.e. A. Adams = Landscapes , not portrait).

Would love to write some AI to pull links for each photographer; alternatively I could email well known photographers that I know and perhaps create an independent email address for receipt of links. Make it a cooperative effort from all photographers who are willing to participate. We could list them as source and a link to their own site.

I retired just prior to Covid and am finishing my mother's estate matters. If I can do that, well... I am willing to look at feasibility. But before I start I would need some commitment from this website owner that they are willing to support the concept, and the endeavor (with hardware and software).

[Tin Can]

Paper Books may last longer than any Digi, this forum lost all images before I joined, look that up

I erased many of my Forum image posts with one click, I now regret that, I twitched

Consider pre digi, new discoveries of films, prints of lost art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Maier

Suddenly Digi Storage is being limited as data is too huge already...and hacked constantly

A Digi glitch now blamed for Big Boat blocking the economy world wide

EMP could erase all $$$

I know I already said 'no'

I think we need heavy duty Time capsules all over our wasteland with Film, Gold/art, no Digi beacon

Our Earth has long history and tail

I don't want to go to Mars, Elon

[pdmoylan]

All valid points.

Having lots of great images accessible in one spot would get me through a trip to Mars (with a lot of valium or sedative).

Convincing Musk to allow 8x10 (or larger) film images to be taken on Mars might be worth some consideration. Who is willing to go?

[Benjamin]

A sort of encyclopedia of large format photographers is a fun idea, but you might be underestimating the scope of your project.

I don't think there is a difference in this type of project whether it's a website or a book. Takes as much time and needs as much work - "writing bios and placing that photogs work in context of the period and impact overall" sounds simple enough, but just for Walker Evans or Edward Weston you're talking about tons of research to do.

Then there is the issues of coherence and of "who decides what", meaning, as you pointed out, that you need a chief editor and an editorial committee. Needless to say that the combination of an editorial committee reviewing material sent by unpaid contributors who voluntarily spent a lot of their time doing research and writing is not an easy one to navigate...

I'm a book lover and a lover of photo books and thus agree with what Tin Can has said about digital vs print. I find it sad that a lot of the information you wish people would have easy access to has been printed but is unavailable either because so many great photo books are out of print or are found at ridiculously high prices on different resale websites.

[pdmoylan]

Benjamin, your thoughtful response brings to mind the pile of photobooks that sit on my shelf accumulating dust (mostly). Salgado, Gibson, McCurry, Dykinga, Porter and others I will pick up from time to time. I find myself at my computer many hours daily, and accessing old and new images on-line is too convenient and in effect obviates the need for books to some extent (Ralph Gibson would vehemently disagree). On-line magazines (Burn, Aperture etc) are interesting sources of material, some published in books, others not. I do not own any books by Haas, Shore and too many others, so when I have an impulse to be inspired, clicks take precedent - hence my objective.

Without a nice group of passionate collaborators, this won't happen. I have good bandwidth, but not to cover more than say 10 image makers over a year or so.

[Benjamin]

Benjamin, your thoughtful response brings to mind the pile of photobooks that sit on my shelf accumulating dust (mostly).

Maybe it's the effect of the pandemic and spending 7 hours a day in front of a computer screen, but I've been going back to photo books more often than in the past. It slows things down - not having to scroll and being able to take my time really looking, easily going from one page to another, going back, trying to understand. Been doing that a lot with Stephen Shore's "Uncommon Places", going back and forth, comparing the pre- and after-1975 pictures (the year he points out as being transformative). Allows you not always see photos as individual pictures but part of a corpus, part of an ensemble - or a vision of an ensemble - designed by the photograph. To me, that type of experience just isn't possible on a computer screen.

And to be able to just pick up a book, any book that might inspire me, not to have to check bookmarks on my browser (most of which I've forgotten I had). Not to mention reading the enlightening essays that many photo books contain... Again, might partly be computer screen fatigue from the pandemic, but for me (as for many others) reading on a screen or in a book is not the same experience and I definitely get more out of the later than of the former.

That said. Many photographers of which I've recently ordered books I've discovered on the web. It is a great tool for discovery but, in my mind, it falls short in terms of making me fully appreciate a photographer's work.

I also like to think that every time I buy a book some money goes back to the photographer as well as to the editor.

[jp]

Benjamin; the idea that the web is great for discovery is so true.. A website to introduce historic photographers would potentially be as practical as something all encompassing.

A thorough one stop source would be overwhelming I think... The recent Clarence H White book was about 600 pages, and that's just for one obscure photographer. I have behind me the Anne Brigman book and that's 3 inches thick and 400 pages. Multiply that by at least a hundred photographers.

[Tin Can]

Good to know


Benjamin, & OP ...
consider this forum, LFPF and its 'on photography' sub area as likely interest, response, need ...

The 'activity stream' of the forum looks something like this, as you posted.
214296


However, you might consider something a group of us do: we discuss books, shows, via zoom and youtube. we also lend books around the group. this has been ongoing for several years.


best, jen

[pdmoylan]

Benjamin, no doubt that the photographer's "vernacular" is discovered with the publication of their book(s): motifs, intentions, style, ethos, technique, become associated with that image maker.

JP, the two examples you offer I unfortunately am not familiar with (shame on me), but if we had a depository with these photogs and their "quintessential" images, as deemed by the photographer themselves and an editorial committee, we would at least be providing well sourced documentation for those wanting to explore. One question is whether an attempt should be made to show a cross-section of photographers covering a period/era/location (i.e. evolution of images of say the Grand Canyon using LF). This can't be the "encyclopedia britannica" however.

Jen, having covered most of the Leica Conversations, Leica Tech Talk, Leica Stay At Home videos, I love that format and perhaps LFPF could become a source for interviewing LF photographers ("John Sexton, Charles Cramer, Pat O'Hara ...) and technicians (i.e. builders or cameras/lenses (Shen Hao owner, and rep from Rodenstock etc.) and those most familiar with LF products - Bob Salomon comes to mind for LF lenses and Linhof/Toyo products). State of art Video equipment and expertise in running it along with appropriate displays of images in some sequence would be essential. Live Streaming LF interviews with spectators providing questions perhaps? - a gratifying format. Posting to youtube or vimeo.

Sharing of books sounds like a library concept. If that was regional it might work with hand offs of books - otherwise how would that work? For general zoom chats, I find the technology temperamental and the only way it would work is to have a moderator, a purpose and planned agenda disseminated in advance to all participants, and time limits established. This is a bit off my track - but your suggestion is a highly visible and accessible way to encourage LF format imaging including discussions of its and history, equipment and techniques - and the videos stay on youtube somewhat indefinitely (?).

Perhaps energy should be funneled into this direction rather than mine. Video is not my forte, though interviewing and discussing equipment etc would be ok.

Application of my educational background in Art History, Comparative Lit and Business (MBA) would flow easily with these projects.

I like the OTBox suggestions Jen. We would need to hone this further and again obtain permission to host these videos and educational resources from the owner of this site (videos could be a spin off into a 501c3 org). Again there is some copyright hurtles on images and bio information (no plagiarism please unless permitted). I like where this is going.

[Tin Can]

Found this today and posted it

Try a format like it

https://monovisions.com/vintage/

[pdmoylan]

Great stuff. The 2021 image selection is mostly outstanding.

Thank you for this.

[tgtaylor]

If you are inclined to pursue it, photography has a very rich and colorful history – especially of you are an active photographer as I am. A few of the books that I have in my library:

Impressed by Light: British Photography from Paper Negatives – 1840 – 1860.
The Origins of American Photography 1839 – 1885.
East of the Mississippi.
Photography in Nineteenth Century America.
Framing the West: The Survey Photographs of Timothy O'Sullivan.
Northern Pacific Views: The Railroad Photography of F. Jay Haynes.
New Orleans 1867: Photographs by Theodore Lilienthal.
Carleton E. Watkins
Charles Marville: Photographer of Paris.
Edwin S. Curtis.
Edward Weston.
Ansel Adams.
Alvin Langdon Coburn.
William Henry Jackson
Clarence White.
Frederick Evans.
Across the Continent: The Union Pacific Photographs of Andrew J. Russell
Alexander Gardner: The Western Photographs, 1867 – 1868.
Print the Legend
...

But the LFPF is a gear related board so I doubt that you will find much interest here.

Thomas

[Bernice Loui]

This project cannot be any where near complete without considering the VAST amount of creative/artistic commercial work produced by many LF view camera image makers post WW-II to the late 1990's. IMO, some of these works are timeless and excellent and equal to the common Foto art world images many new to LF today.

See reply# 19
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?163204-How-Many-Pros-use-LF/page2

How many Lf folks will seek to duplicate what is considered "classic great" LF view camera images -vs- creating their own expressive creative works?



Bernice

[Tin Can]

This is about Curation, tough job and thankless.

Some want to use old tripod holes, some don't know they are doing it. Some expect every photographer to know about every other photographer and their work from Inception to this moment. CopyRight.

Everybody/Person is an expert, constantly telling others they are/know best, insisting Pretenders to go back to their cave and never again Darken the Light. Yes, Father. No Father.

What is Good? What is reality? Do I Like it? Will I Buy it? MoneyChangers.

May I Draw on the Sacred Cave Walls, No they are Special, go here. Lascaux II (https://archaeology-travel.com/france/lascaux-ii/)

In future, if there is one, others Will dig us up and Judge. Garbage/Art/Important/$$$/Value, is it food?

I don't know why we bury each other, sooner or later the remains turn Into Earth as all things.

NOT ART

[Benjamin]

This project cannot be any where near complete without considering the VAST amount of creative/artistic commercial work produced by many LF view camera image makers post WW-II to the late 1990's. IMO, some of these works are timeless and excellent and equal to the common Foto art world images many new to LF today.

See reply# 19
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?163204-How-Many-Pros-use-LF/page2

How many Lf folks will seek to duplicate what is considered "classic great" LF view camera images -vs- creating their own expressive creative works?



Bernice

Indeed, one problem with pdmoylan's project -
the creation of an extensive and comprehensive educational tool of say at least 100 (or more) LF photographers whose work found acclaim , whether the result of fine art, commercial/studio/portrait, architectural, landscape etc. - will not be where to start but where to stop.

[Tin Can]

Agree and what about the 'Masters' unknown in the whole wide world?

Vivian Maier

https://interactive.wttw.com/art-design-chicago/vivian-maier

There are sure to be more found over time



Indeed, one problem with pdmoylan's project - - will not be where to start but where to stop.

[pdmoylan]

... oh but isn't it about the journey of discovery and learning about previously unknown image makers, grasshopper. So the project finds footing with new finds and those unheralded "masters". I could not have survived this pandemic without the mental input of incredible images made by those I know virtually nothing about. It was that sharing which made each day livable and in fact, exciting. I know too many who have no similar pursuit and have struggled during the last year +.

Poetry for the brain, beauty for the mind's eye. I look at my work and see others, and I am inspired to change my perspective to match theirs, so I can continue to grow (old).

P.S. What happened to Jen? I thought their suggestions great.

Still, no volunteers?

[Tin Can]

This forum has been called a gear oriented forum, so be it

Not sure what your game is, but goading members never works

Adventure is Creation not Hero worship

all bow down and kiss ass

NOT