Phillips 8x16 camera

[BillieBob]

Hello Everyone!

In this venue I came across information regarding the Phillips 8x16 camera. On contacting Dick Phillips I learned that he made only ten in this format, one for himself and nine others so that the expense of buying film might be distributed among them. I am VERY interested in learning more about this camera and, if possible, talking one of these nine fortunate individuals into selling his/hers to me.

Are any of the lucky nine among you? If so, having used the format, what are your feelings and thoughts about it, both the 8x16 format itself and this particular camera? Would you be willing to sell yours?

I recently purchased an 8x15 plate camera from a gentleman in India who buys them from estates and closed photo shops to resell on eBay. (I recommend him highly and will be glad to give contact info, if desired.) It's a beautiful camera crafted from teakwood complete with a teak tripod. As much as I appreciate its quality and beauty, and enjoy experimenting with glass plates, it is quite heavy and has limited movements and bellows. However, I absolutely love the format! As a relatively lightweight film format, I think it would be ideal, especially for landscape.

Please give me some feedback. Does 7x17 have a lock on this niche?

Bill

[Daniel Grenier]

I don`t have one of those but I do know that Roger Hine, out of Toronto, had bought one of the first ones from Dick Phillips. However he sold it not long after buying it. Roger does hang around here from time to time so he may point you towards who it is he sold it to.

Personnaly, I find the 8x16 size to be rather odd in more ways than one and much prefer my 7x17 (which, incidentally, I bought from Roger).

Anyway, good luck with your search.

[Oren Grad]

Please give me some feedback. Does 7x17 have a lock on this niche?

Yes, in the sense that there are many more 7x17 cameras around than there will ever be 8x16s, and whatever challenges one faces in getting things like film and holders will be even that much greater with 8x16.

No, in the sense that once you get into exotic formats like this, hardly anything is "off the shelf" anyway, so you might as well get what really makes you happy. If the 1:2 aspect ratio of 8x16 resonates with you better than the approx. 1:2.5 of 7x17, then go for it! If you have enough money and are willing to wait 12-18 months, you could probably have Keith Canham (or if you have lots and lots and lots of money, Lotus or Ebony) build an 8x16 for you if you can't lay your hands on one of the Phillips cameras.

As for Phillips in particular, as the owner of two of his cameras and having tested two others, and having interacted with Dick on many occasions over the past ten years, I'm a huge fan of both the man and his cameras. You'll find lots of comments about Phillips cameras if you search this board; let us know if you have specific questions.

[Roger Hein]

William,

Richard Kuzniak and I both bought the Phillips 8x16 when it first came out. Dick went out of his way to come up to Canada to show us the 'final' version before heading down to the east coast. He is a true gentleman in the LF community. I used the camera for 2 years and decided at the time that it was too 'close' to 8x10 - meaning that if you hung each side by side on the wall the 8x16 looked more like a 'stretched' 8x10 rather than an altogether 'different' format. The camera itself had a fixed back with only rear tilt and front swing/tilt/rise/fall. Bellows extension was limited to something like 22" - enough for a standard 19" lens but sadly not enough for me to use the 19" cell from the triple convertible I had at the time. Overall the camera had the typical Phillips rigidity (none are better), was lightweight and folded into a compact package. My only gripe with the camera was the size/clearance of the bellows to the rear frame/standard - it was VERY tight in dimensions to the point where one had to be diligent in checking for bellows cutoff with even a moderate amount of movements used. Phillips still makes the best camera around - rigid, lightweight, and elegantly designed. Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Roger...

[BillieBob]

Thanks for your quick replies!

I couldn't agree more with your assessments of Dick Phillips personally and of his workmanship. I bought one of his earlier 8x10 Advantage cameras used in 1994 or so. It is still my primary camera, and I would not part with it at any price. I got to know him more directly and personally around 1995 when I purchased an 11x14 Advantage from him new. He is, indeed, a gentleman in every sense of the term and, IMHO, a genius in the field of camera design. I'm enough of an engineer to appreciate the amount of thought required to produce such highly efficient designs. I had to sell my 11x14 in 1999 in order to finish a house that I was building at the time, a sad and difficult decision to be sure.

I can't say exactly why I find the 8x16 (8x15) proportions so appealing. When shooting 11x14 landscapes, I found much of the immediate foreground and excess sky to be distracting and began printing and matting them as a more satisfying, to me, 8x14 instead. The extra inch or two seems to improve that sense of breadth in the landscape. For some reason 7x17 seems to carry this a bit too far and feels somewhat 'stretched' or 'sqashed' to me. I guess there's no accounting for personal taste! I'll have to ask Dick what inspired him toward 8x16.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

Bill

[Oren Grad]

For some reason 7x17 seems to carry this a bit too far and feels somewhat 'stretched' or 'sqashed' to me.

I spoke with Dick about the 8x16 once, and he said exactly that - 7x17 seemed just a bit too stretched to him. I thought that was really cool. Think the existing format isn't quite right? Why, go invent a new one and build it yourself!

[Chip Chisena]

I own an 8X16 and 5 AWB holders and an 8X10 Phillips.I asked Dick,after using my 8X10 for a while,if he could make me an 8X16 back set.This was not possible but he knew of someone selling an 8x16.I bought the camera,five holders and a few hundred sheets of Tri-x.Before buying ,Dick sent me 2 test prints one 7X17 and one 8X16.I much preferred the 8X16. I find the 7 inch side of 7X17 winds up like 6 1/2" and just looks squashedto me.I can stand develop one negative in an 11X14 Omega drum or rotary develop 2 negatives at a time in a 16X20 Unicolor paper drum.I primarily print in pt/pd and occasionally in AZO.I get 3 prints from 20X24 sheet of Azo.I print 8X16 on a 12X20 piece of Cot 320 in a B&S contact frame for pt/pd.I think the size of the print is ideal held at arms length for viewing.My lenses are a 305 and 450,the cameras ' light weight makes the tripod needed not too heavy.I recently ordered Tmax-400 in 8X16.I am thinking of getting a 6cmX12cm camera as a travel camera to match the ratio of the 8X16.Obviously,I don't want to sell but would be happy to talk to you on the phone etc.

[BillieBob]

Again, thanks to everyone for all the help! I wanted to bring this info up to date:

Dick Phillips has been kind enough to provide me with an 8x16 film holder, ground glass and a set of springs so that I might build an 8x16 back. I am converting a Cambo SC 8x10 monorail. It appears to be a staightforward process, although it's taking me months to accomplish.

I've removed the back from the Cambo. I will replace or modify the horizontal plate from the rear standard that permits rear shift and carries the uprights onto which the back is attached, so that it will accompany the new back. I've priced a new bellows. Bergger will provide film through Bostick & Sullivan (5 box minimum). If my reasoning continues to prove correct, the result will be an 8x16 monorail camera (horizontal only) with all movements except rear shift (and this can be included, also, if a new, longer piece is machined to replace the existing one) and with a bellows draw of about 30".

The back has been much easier to build than I feared, although how well it works has yet to be seen. I've used off the shelf craft grade red oak and carpenter's wood glue (Lowe's). Most of the tools could be hand powered: mitre box and saw, assorted clamps, hand drill. I did finally splurge on an inexpensive table saw and 60T carbide blade for ripping and cross-cut. A small band saw would also work well. I already had a hand router and portable table and a 1x30 upright belt sander for shaping.

I will post here as things progress. If there is enough interest, I'll try to produce some sort of instructional something-or-other with pics. I'll certainly answer questions as I can and let you know what has worked (or NOT!) for me.

Best!

Bill

[Oren Grad]

Bill - thanks for the update. There are other folks also building custom ULF cameras on a monorail base - notably Kerry Thalmann, who's currently working on a 7x17. There's been some interesting discussion on the design issues involved, especially over at APUG. By all means, please do join in the conversation and keep us posted!