Is it possible to practice the art of "seeing"?

[GoodOldNorm]

Is it possible to practice the art of "seeing"? Before setting up your large format camera do you use a frame to view a scene or take snaps with a compact camera?Are there any online sites, videos or artists reference books that may help beyond the "rule of 2/3rds" , I'm talking more about perspective, balance, negative space, symmetry, emotion etc. Your thoughts and knowledge would be most appreciated.

[GRAYnomad]

I use a viewing frame and a Linhof Universal finder.

I spot a potential image just by eye, then frame it to see if it works.

However I started 50 years ago so can no longer comment on what books are available I'm afraid. These days Youtube might be better, that said I have seen contemporary photographers releasing eBook for beginners that look pretty good, I just can't remember who they were right now.

[Tin Can]

I will add, looking at many images helps

The problem is copycat

Many here are stuck in emulation and Hero worship

me too

[drj52]

Is it possible to practice the art of "seeing"? Before setting up your large format camera do you use a frame to view a scene or take snaps with a compact camera?

That sounds more like "previewing" than "practicing".

I practice "seeing" whenever I'm out and about without a camera. When I'm walking with my wife, and I slow down, she automatically says, "You see something, don't you?".

[BrianShaw]

https://www.google.com/search?q=photographic+composition&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&sxsrf=ALeKk005sfmrBfU6jA7US6PhGdl2ptAEdw%3A1616159692458&source=hp&ei=zKNUYK3fGa2WwbkPuZOYkA4&oq=photographic+compositio&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBABGAAyAggAMgIIADICCC4yAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIILjoHCCMQ6gIQJzoOCC4QsQMQxwEQowIQkwI6CAgAELEDEIMBOgsILhCxAxDHARCjAjoFCAAQsQM6CAguEMcBEKMCOgsILhCxAxCDARCTAjoFCC4QsQM6CAguELEDEIMBOggIABCxAxDJAzoFCAAQkgM6CwgAELEDEIMBEMkDOgoIABCxAxDJAxAKOgUIABDJA0oFCD4SATFKBQg_EgExSgUIPhIBMUoFCD8SATFKBQg-EgExSgUIPxIBMVDlX1iPqQFgmrMBaARwAHgAgAHaAYgBvh6SAQYwLjI1LjGYAQCgAQGwAQo&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

[BrianShaw]

I hope that link works. It’s a google of “photographic composition “. Lots of resources on the basics. Studying that, plus looking at images, will help make “seeing” that which might be worthy photographic images more instinctual.

[Greg]

I use a viewing frame and a Linhof Universal finder.

Also use one in my travels. I have labeled it to approximately equal the focal lengths used with the four formats that I shoot. Using the finder I am able to come back to the location(s) with a minimum of equipment. Makes a huge difference when having to haul out the 11x14.

[Ulophot]

Yes!
One can use many tools. The finder referred to is fine, but perhaps you will find that making a viewing card will stand you in good stead and save you money. A single card can represent a variety of focal lengths depending on how far from the eye it is held. Set up your camera with a given lens, and frame a suitable subject at some distance. Mark where the edges lie, and replicate this framing with the card at your eye from the same position. The distance from your eye to card can be measured with a knotted string or perhaps just your hand and fingers. Repeat with other lenses.

As for composition, I have become among those less inclined to use constructs (thirds rule, etc.) than intuition and study, but I started out decades ago with the rule of thirds, which was at least a starting point for organizing the frame rather than following the natural tendency to unthinkingly put the "subject" smack dab in the center as the eye works. I think there is something to be gained initially from evaluating fine images by others with some of the "rules" in mind, but nearly every composition book/presentation/video I have ever seen ends up imposing on one or more images a construct that simply doesn't apply or is such a "stretch" that it serves no good purpose.

I think that there are principles of organization that supersede rules, and because they encompass more than the formal organization of lines, masses, and so forth, and include a host of subjective factors, they appear at first to be elusive.

In any case, learning to see involves mentally playing with what is seen, which can be done without a camera or a card. It's really a process of posing "what ifs". You see something that attracts your eye. Would it make a good picture from this angle, this lighting, this distance, with this included to the side(s), with the foreground/background in/out of focus? What if you move over here, come back when the light is coming from there/is overcast, use a different aperture/focal length, etc.? The more you get used to asking such questions, the better you will get to see your subject and how it is being rendered to your vision/film by lighting, optics, etc.

To my mind, the real question is, what is it you wish to say?

[Vaughn]

I just walk around, wandering actually, seeing. Sometimes with the camera, mostly without. That is how I practice. I have not used the viewing frames, tho I will sometimes use my fingers to create a frame to give my eye a jump start.

[Nodda Duma]

Yes, always. I’ve envisioned far more photographs than I’ve taken.

[Merg Ross]

An essay addressing this subject, written by Edward Weston almost eighty years ago, is pertinent today.

"Seeing Photographically" by Edward Weston 1943

http://photohelios-team.blogspot.com/2009/02/essay-edward-weston.html

[Vaughn]

An essay addressing this subject, written by Edward Weston almost eighty years ago, is pertinent today.

"Seeing Photographically" by Edward Weston 1943

http://photohelios-team.blogspot.com/2009/02/essay-edward-weston.html
On composition:
Such rules and laws are deduced from the accomplished fact; they are the products of reflection and after-examination, and are in no way a part of the creative impetus. When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches.

[jmdavis]

Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee used to teach workshops titled "Vision and Technique". It might be taught again. Before the workshop I saw what was there and accepted upside down and backward as a limitation that you deal with. I left the workshop realizing that the object isn't as important as the vision on the ground glass. It was liberating to realize that.

[BrianShaw]

On composition:
Such rules and laws are deduced from the accomplished fact; they are the products of reflection and after-examination, and are in no way a part of the creative impetus. When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches.

True, but for someone just starting out or struggling to develop creativity it’s a reasonable way to achieved some sort of success and possibly avoid frustration that will impede that path to creativity.

[GoodOldNorm]

An essay addressing this subject, written by Edward Weston almost eighty years ago, is pertinent today.

"Seeing Photographically" by Edward Weston 1943

http://photohelios-team.blogspot.com/2009/02/essay-edward-weston.html
Thank you I enjoyed reading that essay.

[Jim Noel]

I learned early the value of a viewing card which Ansel used up to and probably including the last image he made. I carry one anytime I have a camera nearby, and often when I don't.
Look for what pleases you and don't worry about rules.

[Heroique]

I learned early the value of a viewing card which Ansel used up to and probably including the last image he made. I carry one anytime I have a camera nearby, and often when I don't. Look for what pleases you and don't worry about rules.

I always have my viewing card with me.

Here's AA practicing his art of seeing w/ his viewing card from "The Camera."

213986

I think he called it his cut-out card.

[eli]

Study art work, paintings, drawings, different compositions and various perspectives to work on your 'Seeing' as well as photographs, and shoot a lot of b&w film in a small format camera, taking time to look at the rolls of negatives against a well lit window, so you can develop a sense of b&w pre-visualization.

A Wratten #90 filter in a small card frame, square, will help to learn what the 'Values' of shades and highlights are and, together with the rest, allow you to start visualizing in b&w and in Colour.

If needed, you can hold other format cards over the Square #90 Card, so you can cut down on the clutter, but I prefer to use the larger square as it allows more 'movement' in the scene so you are no missing other possibilities.

It is possible to see in b&w or monotone values, it just takes time together with experience and practice to do so.

IMO

[Vaughn]

True, but for someone just starting out or struggling to develop creativity it’s a reasonable way to achieved some sort of success and possibly avoid frustration that will impede that path to creativity.

And true, the words were written by someone well experienced with composition. But teaching the rules to beginners may still not be the best way to go about it. I'd rather let the beginners photograph, make prints, and have them tell me if they are happy with the prints, and start there with any discussion on composition. Why hamstring them early? :cool:

[Doremus Scudder]

Principles and guidelines for organizing elements of an image have been around for centuries (millennia?). In contrast to Vaughn, I think they are useful for beginning students; why re-invent the wheel? They were taught to painters and architects through history to guide them on their way. I don't see them as a constraint and I don't think they should be presented that way.

We have to be aware, though, that these rules are just basic, primary-school-level building-block tools for helping organize an image expressively; like basic grammar is to fine writing.

Just as you need to learn the alphabet and the grammar and build your vocabulary if you wish to write well, you need to learn about populating and organizing and image to have a claim to being a literate image maker. But gaining literacy is not the same as becoming masterful at one's craft.

There is always a transcendental, creative aspect to the use of the fundamental principles and "rules" when employed by artists who have truly mastered their media, which springs from an awareness that grasps unifying concepts at a meta-level and a synthesis of technique with intent and innovation that elevates the end results out of mediocrity.

How to get there though? Learn the basics, master them, move to the next level. Do as much as your time, diligence and intelligence will allow, being aware that we can't control the latter very much. Then, go out and make images with intent and with an open mind. Use your toolbox of techniques to organize your images in the way that best communicates that intent. If you're a genius, and have paid your dues, your images will show it. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

I learned what I know of visual organization by studying art history, looking at paintings, architecture, sculpture and, yes, photographs with a view to understanding how great artists were using form and organization to lend their work expressiveness, legibility and power. Knowing the principles they learned and used, as well as the innovations they made (their vocabulary and syntax if you will) allows one to be moved by the significance, fluency and depth of content of great works and to understand, to a degree anyway, how organizational choices contribute to the emotional and intellectual impact of the work.

When I photograph, I take my tools and try to do something with them that lends my work intensity, using them in old and new ways, experimenting but sometimes also using them traditionally. How I succeed depends on factors beyond my control, so I don't worry about them. People are hard-wired to do things in particular ways; we can't fight that, but should rather embrace it.

I really believe, however, that having a good working knowledge of the time-tested principles of visual organization is an indispensable foundation for consistently making really meaningful photographs. Which set of principles we employ is a personal choice, but you can't choose to use something you know nothing about.

M. C. Escher's works transcend perspective; however, he couldn't have made them without a thorough knowledge of perspective.


Nuts and bolts: I use a viewing frame a lot, mostly because I can save wasting time setting up the camera that way. I have a lot of things I want to communicate with my photography. I think about them a lot when I'm not photographing. When I am photographing, I try to work with an empty mind, trusting in my subconscious to provide me with the expressive tools I need and allowing the things I see and the way I feel that day choose subjects for me that have the potential to express one or the other aspect of those things I wish to share. If I'm lucky, I find new things to say, new melodies to compose.

I do spend time with the organization, though, sometimes working through a scene trying out the rule of thirds, to bullseye or not to bullseye, placement of the elements in relation to each other, etc. but mostly listening to what the scene in front of my camera has to say about how it wants to be organized. Elements in the scene dictate to me where they want to be placed, what they want to point to, which aspect ratio to use, what gets importance, what not. I try to listen carefully and do justice to the impetus that moved me to stop and set up my camera in the first place. That is what I believe is practicing the art of seeing.

Having a mind full of possibilities always helps.

Doremus

[Michael R]

Viewing card is a useful aid, and of course practice/work is always the way to get the most out of whatever aptitude ("talent") you have.

[GoodOldNorm]

[QUOTE=Michael R;1592556]Viewing card is a useful aid, and of course practice/work is always the way to get the most out of whatever aptitude ("talent") you have.
A big thank you to you all for your thoughts and insights, I managed to borrow a book from a friend, Photography And The Art Of Seeing (Freeman Patterson). My wife is a primary school teacher and we discussed some of the authors ideas. My wife did lessons with 7-8 year olds that entailed taking an Ipad outside to take photographs on a theme or topic, for instance it could be just one word, "Happiness". The results showed that about 3/4 of the children took images of each other smiling, a few took pictures of objects that made them happy such as flowers or swings etc. Some of the pictures had absolutely no link to happiness whatsoever. My point is that I usually go out to photograph something that I have in mind for instance "shapes and patterns made by tree roots", if I don't find any compositions I come home empty handed.I don't think I have been looking hard enough, I should take photographs that are not masterpieces and build on the knowledge I would gain from the experience! This post and the book I have just read has prompted me to carry a viewing card and to open up my mind to be more flexible with my approach and to scout out locations before attempting to photograph them. Once again thank you for the interesting replies.

[Michael R]

It’s funny you mention Freeman Patterson. I often suggest Photography and the Art of Seeing (and also Photography for the Joy of It) to people. In my opinion one of the best books you can read and perhaps the only book that can actually help someone to see slightly better.


[QUOTE=Michael R;1592556]Viewing card is a useful aid, and of course practice/work is always the way to get the most out of whatever aptitude ("talent") you have.
A big thank you to you all for your thoughts and insights, I managed to borrow a book from a friend, Photography And The Art Of Seeing (Freeman Patterson). My wife is a primary school teacher and we discussed some of the authors ideas. My wife did lessons with 7-8 year olds that entailed taking an Ipad outside to take photographs on a theme or topic, for instance it could be just one word, "Happiness". The results showed that about 3/4 of the children took images of each other smiling, a few took pictures of objects that made them happy such as flowers or swings etc. Some of the pictures had absolutely no link to happiness whatsoever. My point is that I usually go out to photograph something that I have in mind for instance "shapes and patterns made by tree roots", if I don't find any compositions I come home empty handed.I don't think I have been looking hard enough, I should take photographs that are not masterpieces and build on the knowledge I would gain from the experience! This post and the book I have just read has prompted me to carry a viewing card and to open up my mind to be more flexible with my approach and to scout out locations before attempting to photograph them. Once again thank you for the interesting replies.

[Vaughn]

Principles and guidelines for organizing elements of an image have been around for centuries (millennia?). In contrast to Vaughn, I think they are useful for beginning students; why re-invent the wheel?

Doremus

Because some people are surfing
and have no use for wheels.
:cool:

PS -- wheels slow down a surfboard.

[John Olsen]

Thanks Doremus, for the fine essay.

I hike with a viewing filter and compass to select scenes and to choose the lens/film and time of day for my return. By not having the obligation to take a shot right away, I feel more free to move around to optimize my concept, delay until a better season, or cancel it altogether. Then I jab a stick in the ground for my tripod location and check for any needed scene alterations (interfering foliage, trail signs, etc.). It's slow, but I enjoy the whole process.

And yes, 30 or so years ago I read the Freeman Patterson books and studied the classic greats. I'm still hoping to get good at this. Looking at work on this forum is more exercise in that direction too.

[LabRat]

Take a drawing class... (seriously!!!) One thing you learn early is you start with line of form... You soon start to see lines of form in everything...

Like with a face, you start with two arc lines that cross and build from there, adding protrusions, then filling in details like texture until you go too far, and chaos creeps in...

Then you realized that photography works in reverse, when you start with chaos, but apply order and work down to basic line...

The challenge is to decide when enough...

Steve K

[Pieter]

Interestingly, when I draw, I start with the shadows that define the major shapes and dynamic of the subject or scene. Lines are added later.

[Vaughn]

I did take a drawing class...I was lucky to pass...

[Sean Mac]

"If we master a bit of drawing, everything else is possible." Alberto Giacometti

A few years study with a great Art Teacher transformed my understanding of images.

A crop from a 35mm snapshot and four or five hours with some pencils....

214036

Her parents have a more finished version framed and hanging on their wall.

I have maybe thirty hours of time in those sketches, the paintings are still just works in progress :rolleyes:

Drawing was a very worthwhile investment of time for me

[mdarnton]

Something I have discussed with other news photogs is how we get "into the zone" when shooting, where everything sort of drops away and we become the camera, like looking through a tube, hearing nothing, seeing only a series of potential photos and choosing from them. I do my best when I can willfully snap into this state, and I can do it on the street without a camera if I want to. Unlike a lot of the contact sheets I've seen with long series of the same subject when photogs are working in a studio mode, mine tended to be a series of discrete completed pictures which were basically uncroppable single shots. I'd go out for a day at a bunch of locations and come back with only one 36 exp roll shot. Even now, years later with a digital camera, I just push the button once and have never used a motor, even when I was working for a newspaper. Because of that approach, conservative of film, shooting large format has never been a problem.

[Tin Can]

Yes, but Michael

When I bought my first motor drive 35 mm AF Nikon F70 new 1998 I had a blast shooting street at Maxwell Street, aka thieves market as I could shoot fast for the first time, having used Pentax 35 manual focus for decades

I have posted some of those here, got some tough guys with hard eyes

That thing still works, but I don't use it as it looks digi

The Pentax is back

I load my own 12 shot canister and can barely shoot that many

[Merg Ross]

I learned what I know of visual organization by studying art history, looking at paintings, architecture, sculpture and, yes, photographs with a view to understanding how great artists were using form and organization to lend their work expressiveness, legibility and power.

Doremus

I, too. Thank you, Doremus.

Best,

Merg

[j.e.simmons]

As a musician I learned that practice is practice and performance is performance. In practice you set something to improve on and then work out ways to improve. Some of that is experimentation. Translating that to photography, I frequently go out to improve something and take my old digital as a practice camera. For instance, if I want to learn to see landscapes through a longer lens, such as the way Elliot Porter did, rather than the more wide angel lens that I usually use, I take the digital with a longer lens and shoot 25-30 images - some as I would normally shoot, and some experimentally. I then take them home and analyze them. What works, what doesn’t. Why? Then I apply what I’ve learned to my large format images.

I don’t think you can realistically practice while also trying to shoot an image you’d want to hang on the wall. Particularly with the price of large format film now.

[Jonnymm]

You can buy one of those artist view catchers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV_CYBBtdZs