Which Densitometer to Purchase?

[neil poulsen]

With another stimulus check coming, I'm thinking of purchasing a densitometer. I have a Tobias that I bought inexpensively years ago. While it's "accurate" within a range of densities, I value it mostly for comparative measurements only.

What is a good, accurate, used, transmission densitometer to purchase for use with black and white film? (Not color.) Perusing EBay, XRite 301 models seem to stand out. Another is the 810 series, which were used with so many of the mom and pop. retail film and print processing units.

Are there any sellers or retailers that are known for selling reliable equipment? Of course, any that I purchase will be checked with a recent, Stouffer's test strip.

Among darkroom equipment, having a good, functioning densitometer is right up there in importance with my enlarger. It's an essential tool for achieving the kind of black and white results that I like.

[Kevin Crisp]

Neil

I bought one years ago, it was a Nuclear Associates clamshell densitometer. Same units are also labeled Fluke. Runs off batteries or plugs in. I believe it was originally for x-ray techs to use calibrating things. I then purchased the manufacturer's calibration strip. It is highly accurate, small and portable, and they are often on that auction site for cheap. One of the test strip densities is what most people look for in trying to hit Zone I the traditional way. I also have a Macbeth I'd love to get up and running and calibrated. The guy who claims to work on this has ignored all calls and and emails so it isn't usable for me. The clamshell ones are on that auction side for less than $100.

[JMO]

Neil, I hope my questions here are not an inappropriate broadening of your basic question about which used densitometer to shop for. A couple of years ago I went ahead and purchased a Heiland TRD-2 densitometer, and have used it with John Sexton's film speed test method (we were given by JS in 2017) to determine my personal EI for each of my B&W film and developer combinations (when using my JOBO processor and 3010 Expert Drums). I then used my Stouffer 21-Step Wedge to determine how many steps (or what latitude) my favorite VC papers and developer combinations will allow at varying contrast filter levels in my darkroom.

All that was helpful, but other than those tests I would be curious if you or others here could list and/or explain what other testing I could/should be doing with my densitometer in relation for my usage of B&W films and papers? My thanks in advance for any help offered.

[Drew Wiley]

I've used an XRite 331 for many years. Reliable and highly accurate, yet affordable.

[Michael R]

I have the same Heiland unit.

Unless you are regularly plotting characteristic curves for films/developers and papers, there really isn't much densitometry to do. Plotting curves is useful if you are doing things such as

1. Formulating a developer
2a. Learning about sensitometry
2b. Figuring out what is/isn't really going on with certain techniques etc. and/or debunking myths

That's about it, really. It's mostly "fun to know" kind of stuff. You don't need densitometry to make excellent prints. In fact if you learn a little about sensitometry/exposure theory, it turns out you don't even need to do "personal EI" tests (unless of course you are using extreme techniques and or bad products/materials).


Neil, I hope my questions here are not an inappropriate broadening of your basic question about which used densitometer to shop for. A couple of years ago I went ahead and purchased a Heiland TRD-2 densitometer, and have used it with John Sexton's film speed test method (we were given by JS in 2017) to determine my personal EI for each of my B&W film and developer combinations (when using my JOBO processor and 3010 Expert Drums). I then used my Stouffer 21-Step Wedge to determine how many steps (or what latitude) my favorite VC papers and developer combinations will allow at varying contrast filter levels in my darkroom.

All that was helpful, but other than those tests I would be curious if you or others here could list and/or explain what other testing I could/should be doing with my densitometer in relation for my usage of B&W films and papers? My thanks in advance for any help offered.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I was hesitant to say it myself. I use a basic transmission densitometer a great deal in relation to color printing controls which necessarily involve highly predictable pan film masks or color separations, etc., also for basic diagnostic work with films (plotting curves), along with a fancier rare projection densitometer. I've done a lot of that. But for simply learning black and white printing ... Jumping through all kinds of hoops up front is, in my opinion, a counterproductive experience. You don't even need to own a densitometer to do superb black and white printing. Yes, they can help in terms of telling you where first base is, versus home plate density, etc. But just visually comparing values on your negative atop a light box to the steps on a basic calibrated 21-step wedge is plenty accurate. Later on, studying sensitometry might help. I just don't know why people like to make things so damn complicated up front unless they're trying to sell another how-to book. I could write my own damn book, but I'm too lazy for that.

[Luis-F-S]

To me the best bang for the buck in a transmission densitometer is Ihara, either their T5 or T500. Ihara still supports them and they're very reasonable on repairs. The only X-Rite that X-Rite will support is the 301. Their repairs are much more expensive than Ihara. I have both and get the same readings from both on the same transmission standard.

[neil poulsen]

All questions are welcome in this thread.

For black and white, I use a densitometer for determining film speed and for determining different development times. I also plot development curves, plotting density as a function of development time. I plot one for each of the different zones of exposure. (For Zone 5 exposure, for Zone 6 exposure, . . . , for Zone 10 exposure.) Plotting a curve enables one to interpolate and target a specific density. For example, through testing, I target 1.35 as Zone 7 as a normal "N" development time.

For me, good black and white photography is more about having a good negative, versus having good printing skills. Though, both are useful.

[JMO]

Thanks, Neil, and your last sentence re obtaining a good negative is my primary goal with the densitometer. But I think it's good to know how much latitude your papers and films can provide within your processes.

[Drew Wiley]

It's important to build versatility into the negative itself to begin with. Papers change. The predominance of VC papers today, versus past graded papers, certainly makes life easier. But there's no substitute for getting the scene range you're after onto the portion of the film curve which counts. Not all films are the same; therefore, any kind of generic "one shoe fits all" advice concerning zone placement, ideal densities, even how many alleged Zone pigeonholes there are, blah, blah, is simply bad advice. Learning how to densitometer plot your own specific film and developer variables does help with respect to any consequent meditative visualization of what is actually going on with the exposure itself. But don't get hung up with it. Plenty of expert technicians turn out to be lousy photographers themselves. The whole point in understanding the specifics is so that you can intuitively feel them down the line, respond spontaneously, and not get tangled up in mere numbers. Any chosen film should become a familiar friend you don't need to argue with.

[ic-racer]

I have a Tobias that I bought inexpensively years ago. While it's "accurate" within a range of densities, I value it mostly for comparative measurements only.

I have two Tobias and I'd not part with them. What exactly is wrong with yours? I was able to get parts for one of mine a few years ago right from Tobias as they are still in business.

Recently one of them needed a new switch that was easy to find at Mouser. Other than that they are both still working great and read perfectly.

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[Greg]

Since the late 1970s, I have been using a MACBETH TD-504 densitometer. It has never failed me. If I needed another densitometer for whatever reason, I would without doubt find another TD-504.

[Luis-F-S]

Since the late 1970s, I have been using a MACBETH TD-504 densitometer. It has never failed me. If I needed another densitometer for whatever reason, I would without doubt find another TD-504. I too used a TD 504 for years. Problem is, they were mostly made in the 1960's-1970's, so getting a bit old. Try to find a PM tube if it goes out! No doubt about it, it's great when it works! I sold mine while it was still working. The X-Rite 301 can be a much newer unit (if you get a single button as opposed to the older 2 button model) and the Ihara's newer still!

[Kevin Crisp]

The clamshell one I mentioned, easily available used under $100, has the same rated accuracy as the X-rite. I'll correct my original post, it runs on 4 AAs only, not an adapter.

[neil poulsen]

I have two Tobias and I'd not part with them. What exactly is wrong with yours? I was able to get parts for one of mine a few years ago right from Tobias as they are still in business.

Recently one of them needed a new switch that was easy to find at Mouser. Other than that they are both still working great and read perfectly.

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Mine isn't accurate at higher densities, though it's accurate at lower densities.

I'll give Tobias a call. Maybe they refurbish and update models.

[Luis-F-S]

Mine isn't accurate at higher densities, though it's accurate at lower densities.

I'll give Tobias a call. Maybe they refurbish and update models.

Remember that for film, you only need densities from 0 to 2.0 or less. So if it's accurate at lower densities, you may be ok.

[JMO]

It's important to build versatility into the negative itself to begin with. Papers change. The predominance of VC papers today, versus past graded papers, certainly makes life easier. But there's no substitute for getting the scene range you're after onto the portion of the film curve which counts. Not all films are the same; therefore, any kind of generic "one shoe fits all" advice concerning zone placement, ideal densities, even how many alleged Zone pigeonholes there are, blah, blah, is simply bad advice. Learning how to densitometer plot your own specific film and developer variables does help with respect to any consequent meditative visualization of what is actually going on with the exposure itself. But don't get hung up with it. Plenty of expert technicians turn out to be lousy photographers themselves. The whole point in understanding the specifics is so that you can intuitively feel them down the line, respond spontaneously, and not get tangled up in mere numbers. Any chosen film should become a familiar friend you don't need to argue with.

Thank you; I can recognize good and wise advice, and appreciate your giving it...

[Jeroen]

I use this one: http://www.darkroomautomation.com/em.htm. Added advantage for me is that the factor of the enlarger gets included in the measurements, so the results are much more useful for working with the zone system. Very affordable at $94!

[ic-racer]

Mine isn't accurate at higher densities, though it's accurate at lower densities.

I'll give Tobias a call. Maybe they refurbish and update models.

The high readings wander or are inconsistent? I'm pretty sure I digitized the service manual and can send it.

[Drew Wiley]

Jeroen - I have different types of easel meters. All were a lot more expensive than that one, and one in particular reads over a far wider density range in direct density units. It was also specially designed for color work, yielding correct ND values regardless of the amount of kind of color filtration (therefore distinct from an ordinary color densitometer, which makes three selective spectral readings). No longer made. The problem with most such devices is that they have no light integration or cosine correction feature for off-axis readings. So you want to take readings directly below the lens position. But at only $94, I'm surprised they aren't selling like hotcakes. Nice that they offer one tweaked for pyro stain too. Along with a simple math calculator, it's a lot easier to work in actual density units than in lumens like a lux meter provides over its limited range.

[kentrush]

Where would I go to get my densitometer recalibrated?

[Greg]

Where would I go to get my densitometer recalibrated?

With a calibrated step wedge, you should be able to calibrate your densitometer yourself. Definitely should work for analogue, not totally sure also for digital.

[xkaes]

For all you cheapskates out there, it's really easy to use an enlarger meter/color analyzer as a densitometer. Just pick any starting point as (ZERO without any density), and convert whatever scale your instrument has, for example time, into exposure values.

Similarly, if your hand-held exposure meter has an enlarger/enlarging attachment -- like most of the Minolta meters, and many others as well -- you can use that in a pinch. That's the first thing I did when I got my Stouffer's step wedge -- to test my meter AND test the wedge.

[Alan Klein]

I have a densitometer tool on my Epson scanner program. What advantage would there be in using it and how would you do that?

[Alan Klein]

I have a densitometer tool on my Epson scanner program. What advantage would there be in using it and how would you do that?

Here is the explanation of how to use the densitometer. My question is how would this procedure help me?
https://files.support.epson.com/htmldocs/exp16x/exp16xrf/twnpr_2.htm

[Drew Wiley]

Real black and white clamshell-style transmission densitometers aren't terribly expensive. X-Rite made some nice ones, and those are easily found used. Someone else makes clone models now, maybe around $200. If you want to plot curves, the real deal is definitely going to save you grief.

[Bernard_L]

Here is the explanation of how to use the densitometer. My question is how would this procedure help me?
https://files.support.epson.com/htmldocs/exp16x/exp16xrf/twnpr_2.htm

Read the document in the link. Epson may well call it a densitometer, it has nothing to do with an actual densitometer. Just RGB values, that generally are related to transmission values by mildly complex equations. And that is before mentioning the logarithm.

Maybe, just maybe, if displaying 16-bit linear values, then taking a calibration, then taking the log...

[Drew Wiley]

... or dragging a big log behind you trying to make sense of it all.

[tih]

This unit is getting a lot of praise over on Photrio: https://www.dektronics.com/store/p/printalyzer-densitometer

[Drew Wiley]

Yep. A basic clamshell with a few new features. A 3mm aperture is kinda big for certain things (versus interchangeable aperture diameters); but that limitation is not a deal-killer.

[neil poulsen]

I have a densitometer tool on my Epson scanner program. What advantage would there be in using it and how would you do that?

I can't say with respect to your Epson scanner program.

I use a densitometer for black and white film tests. As part of my calibrations, I need to know my film curve for development times. So if not full sheets, I'm measuring about 10mm diameter film patches with a densitometer. Thereby, a 3mm aperture would work fine for my purposes.