Bergger Film Developer?

[mossbloom]

Bergger's 8X10 film is $45/box of 25 cheaper than Ilford's HP5+. At that, I'd like to try Bergger, but I don't know what developer to use. Does one of the myriad of Formulary developers work, or is something more generic suitable? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Kiwi7475]

Wait, what? Are you talking Pancro 400?
Where’s $45 for 25 8x10? I haven’t seen it cheaper than around $125.

[paulbarden]

Bergger's 8X10 film is $45/box of 25 cheaper than Ilford's HP5+. At that, I'd like to try Bergger, but I don't know what developer to use. Does one of the myriad of Formulary developers work, or is something more generic suitable? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I assume you're talking about Pancro400.
This is not an easy film to work with, but when you get it right, it produces beautiful results. For starters, its NOT a true 400 ASA film. Expect to have to expose it at 160 ASA (or lower, depending on your choice of developer) to get optimal results.

I would suggest you NOT use Rodinal/R09 with it. You'll find yourself in a battle to preserve shadow detail and maintain usable highlights. Rodinal is likely the worst option. D-76 is excellent, but I prefer D-23 even more (better tonality) and Xtol is also an excellent choice. Bergger also packages Atomal 49 under their own name: BER49, and that works very well too, producing excellent tonal values. However, the development times with BER49 can stretch into the 20 minute plus range if using it 1:1.
When exposing the film at 100ASA, I find PMK also gives an outstanding negative.

[Kiwi7475]

Xtol 1+1, D76 1+1, PMK all work great. Those are the ones I’ve tried.

[paulbarden]

Wait, what? Are you talking Pancro 400?
Where’s $45 for 25 8x10? I haven’t seen it cheaper than around $125.

He's saying its $25 cheaper than HP5+

[Kiwi7475]

He's saying its $25 cheaper than HP5+

Ah yes, read too fast :-)
I was ready to order 1,000 sheets lol

[Pieter]

I have used Rodinal 1+50. Nice, but grainier than HP5+ in Rodinal. Here is the chart from the data sheet.

213717

[Michael R]

Bergger's 8X10 film is $45/box of 25 cheaper than Ilford's HP5+. At that, I'd like to try Bergger, but I don't know what developer to use. Does one of the myriad of Formulary developers work, or is something more generic suitable? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Unless there is something very wrong with this film it should work well in any general purpose developer.

[Michael Graves]

One thing about the Bergger Panchro 100 is that it requires a pre-rinse. I have discovered that about half a teaspoon of baking soda into the pre-rinse reduces the base-fog density a bit. I've tried Bergger, Rodinal, HC-110 and Spur. Spur gave far and away the best results, but is just too expensive for me. I've settled on HC-110, dilution E. That gives me a tonal rendition I really like and a nice tight grain structure. I strongly recommend doing a film speed test for each developer you try. I've burned through 8 rolls of 120 just testing, but I think it was worth the time and effort. I got ISO 200 with Rodinal, 125 with HC110-E. Spur was about ISO 80. My Pan F gives me that kind of speed! But do your own tests. My conditions, including water supply, agitation methods and temperature control are completely different from what you are likely to do.

[Michael R]

This is highly problematic if true as it would mean Bergger is deliberately mislabeling/mischaracterizing the film’s emulsion speed, and by a large amount. Bergger clearly indicates this is an ISO 400 emulsion, so they would be violating the standard.


I assume you're talking about Pancro400.
This is not an easy film to work with, but when you get it right, it produces beautiful results. For starters, its NOT a true 400 ASA film. Expect to have to expose it at 160 ASA (or lower, depending on your choice of developer) to get optimal results.

[paulbarden]

This is highly problematic if true as it would mean Bergger is deliberately mislabeling/mischaracterizing the film’s emulsion speed, and by a large amount. Bergger clearly indicates this is an ISO 400 emulsion, so they would be violating the standard.

There isn't a B&W emulsion out there that actually gives optimal results at "box speed", so Bergger is no different from the rest. I've never exposed any B&W film at the stated box speed and gotten negatives I consider better than "barely usable".

[FrancisF]

I have an expired box of Bergger Pancro ISO 120. But I stopped using it becuase of a pinkish residue that I could not get it with out scaping it off. It was soft and gummy when wet and dried hard. Any suggestions for removing it?

[Willie]

Does this film have the same problem as the earlier version about 15-20 years ago? That was nice but did not do expansion development well at all.

[Fred L]

I read it as each box is $45 cheaper than Ilford, for a 25 sheet box.

[paulbarden]

I read it as each box is $45 cheaper than Ilford, for a 25 sheet box.

At Blue Moon Camera, I can buy Pancro400 for $125 a box (8x10) whereas HP5+ is $170 for a box. So yes, that's exactly what was being expressed: the Bergger product is $45 cheaper than the equivalent Ilford product.

[martiansea]

I've been trying to get decent results with Bancro 400 for a few years now. Tried a few rolls of 120 and hated it. Tried some 4x5 sheet and hated it too. Had used Rodinal every time. I do NOT recommend even trying Rodinal with this. Gives the ugliest grain and no resolution, I just hate it.
My opinion changed when I tried developing with Microphen. MUCH better results. More attractive grain and better tonality. Started to look like their promo shots finally.
Still have some of the 4x5 left, and stoked up on a variety of developers, so I'm going to keep experimenting with different developers. Curious how it would look pulled a couple stops with Perceptol.
I don't think I've tried it with PMK yet, but I may have...need to check my 120 shots and see if any of them have pyro look.

[paulbarden]

I've been trying to get decent results with Bancro 400 for a few years now. Tried a few rolls of 120 and hated it. Tried some 4x5 sheet and hated it too. Had used Rodinal every time. I do NOT recommend even trying Rodinal with this. Gives the ugliest grain and no resolution, I just hate it.
My opinion changed when I tried developing with Microphen. MUCH better results. More attractive grain and better tonality. Started to look like their promo shots finally.
Still have some of the 4x5 left, and stoked up on a variety of developers, so I'm going to keep experimenting with different developers. Curious how it would look pulled a couple stops with Perceptol.
I don't think I've tried it with PMK yet, but I may have...need to check my 120 shots and see if any of them have pyro look.

This mirrors my experience as well: Rodinal gave very poor results, with ugly, clumpy grain, poor tonality and very poor shadow detail. ANY other developer is better.

[Michael Graves]

That pinkish residue is most likely the antihalation coating. That drove me nuts at first. Two things I learned from Berrger is that you must used a pre-rinse of about two minutes, and you must fix twice as long as you do with most other films. Also, the pre-rinse is far more effective with about a half a teaspoon of baking soda dissolved into it. As far as films already developed...ain't got it figured out what to do with those.

[FrancisF]

Michael,
Thanks for the advice. i will give baking soda a try

Francis

[Keith Fleming]

Willie,
The earlier versions of Bergger film from about 15-20 years ago were re-badged Forte films from Europe. Since Forte had an earlier connection to Kodak (pre-World War II I believe, the Bergger advertising at the time claimed a similarity to Kodak XX film. The Forte/Bergger films were good, but the 200 ISO version was best developed at an EI of 100. Also, the staff at Freestyle, which sold the Bergger films, apparently were quite open to admitting it really was Forte film. But then the switch to digital caused Forte to go under and shut down, and that ended the original Bergger offerings.

Keith

[peter schrager]

Forte went under because the equipment was old and the land the factory was on became valuable