Finding tripods for Large Format is kinda hard (daunting)? Favorite LF tripod?

[m00dawg]

I feel like I failed with having to ask yet another tripod question here. But it's a bit of information overload and hard to find large format recommendations from the manufacturers directly. So I apologize if this is a bit of a re-hash but thought I'd ask since some of the previous threads are now several years old that I was able to dig up.

So I have a MeFoto RoadTrip and an Sirui T-025X that I use for all my cameras. The 025X I've used for backpacking with the Intrepid 4x5 even and it works rather well (bring a bag for rocks!). The RoadTrip also does a good job with all my cameras (including my Chamonix 45F2). But it isn't always the most stable, is a bit short, and might be precarious for 8x10. I'm sure it could support the weight of an 8x10, at least the Intrepid, but that might be asking a lot, especially at the taller heights.

Trying to find a more stout tripod that can handle 8x10 and is a bit taller. Being able to turn the center post 90 degrees would be a nice, but not need, to have as well. I don't have real opinions on ball vs pan/tilt heads much either. I currently use ball heads and I haven't had any major issues.

Given what I've read so far (here and elsewhere), that kinda points Manfrotto MT055XPRO3 tripod and something like the 502AH head (it's a video pan/tilt but I think that'd work for large format?). The Aluminum one in my case because the carbon one has skyrocketed in price. But I also saw a Benro A2573F and K&F Concept S210 (the latter being the least expensive of the lot).

Anyone have experience with these? Pretty sure I've seen the Manfrotto X-Pro 3 recommended and I'm leaning that way given it's well known and has some use-cases, but I'm less sure about pan/tilt heads and things of that sort.

[Drew Wiley]

When it comes to supporting view cameras, you really can't expect cheap lightweight ordinary tripods to perform adequately. Ignore published weight ratings. What counts is vibration and flex resistance. One very affordable option is to convert a wooden fiberglass-clad survey tripod to camera use by simply changing out its 5/8-11 inch turnbolt with a standard camera thread 3/8-16 turnbolt. Avoid cheap Chinese versions. A decent US brand like CST will run you 150 bucks or so, or be an even better bargain used. Of course, a real deal Ries maple wood tripod like many of use is a wonderful thing to work with, but far more expensive. When it comes to carbon fiber, you really need to test them for stability with reference to the specific LF camera you have in mind. There are numerous brand options, but anything appropriate for LF work is going to run at least three or four hundred dollars. Used big aluminum tripods will cost less, but be a bit heavier. But this is not an equipment arena where you want to compromise. LF film itself is somewhat getting expensive, and any situation there is vibration or wobble during an exposure is a wasted piece of film, and worse, wasted effort. Get the most solid tripod you can realistically afford, and the best head (an associated topic, but I don't use any tripod head at all, for sake of optimal stability).

[Tin Can]

To make it easier for us, please make links to the products you consider

The general rule here is big wood https://www.riestripod.com/

[Eric Woodbury]

I have 3 8x10 capable tripods: a wooden Miller, an aluminum Paillard, and a carbon fiber Gitzo. The Gitzo was terribly expensive. The Miller is for cinema cameras and is the strongest, most solid and comfortable tripod of the lot. I got this one from Morley Baer. Miller has since given up on wood and has moved to Australia. Paillard is similar in design to Miller with trombone legs. These are available used and are very cheap.

I carry tripod and camera on my shoulder. The Miller style is the most comfortable for this; the Gitzo the least. I use a Gitzo head on all of these and make no use of the ball and socket style used for cinema.

[Tin Can]

The truth is we all have at least 3 mistake tripods

and only you can decide

[m00dawg]

Thanks folks! I hadn't though about a surveyor's tripod hah that's clever! And wow Ries looks beautiful! Also hadn't though to look at cinema tripods, hmm interesting!

Fair point on the links Tin. The ones I was looking at in my original post are:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1247856-REG/manfrotto_mvk502055xpro3_502hd_pro_video_head.html/specs
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1512629-REG/benro_a2573fs6pro_a2573f_aluminium_tripod_with.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1578206-REG/k_f_concept_kf09_089_sa254m2_dslr_camera_tripod.html

I'd expect K&F to be likely worse than the tripods I already have, I just noticed it was taller but clearly is built to an extremely low price and I'd expect that's a no-go. Benro I also just saw by browsing B&H but didn't find info on it.

Of those, I was originally most interested in the Manfrotto. This site was shared in one of the threads a few years old - it doesn't have nearly every tripod, but seems to have the common ones I hear about (just not in the context of large format):

https://thecentercolumn.com/tripod-reviews/

[Drew Wiley]

NONE of the above. Avoid anything with a center column, or else remove that portion of it; it will be counterproductive for typical LF applications. Mt own lightweight relatively affordable CF tripod for 8x10 use is a Feisol CT3472 with the optional spike feet; and I've tweaked the top somewhat for direct platform attachment using a turnbolt (analogous to the Ries method), since that is easy to do on this model. I regard it as a wise old-age investment if my preferred large Ries eventually gets too heavy for me. I have an equivalent pair of triods for 4X5 and MF applications instead, namely, a lighter wt Gitzo CF and a medium weight Ries wooden tripod. If you can possibly afford a Ries, do it. It's the one brand which probably everyone on this forum agrees about. It often helps to have the sheer bully mass of a somewhat heavy wooden tripod, especially in the wind.

[Tin Can]

My first and last tripos were new, the other 8 all used

The used ones get more use

And studio stands are my favorite

I bought 2 of these used for $200 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/187579-REG/Arkay_60242401_6MS_III_Mono_Stand_Sr.html) with Majestic heads 9 years ago

and nobody still wants them

none for sale

[Drew Wiley]

Combining two active threads : mountain lion attacks photographer with a big shiny studio stand and a pile of flash gear strapped to his bicycle. Tripods per se generally factor in portability in these discussions, at least in a sense studio stands do not. Depends on which kind of work you plan to do.

[jp]

One of those $100 tripods will only hold a DSLR with a small lens.. Not even great for a DSLR and big lens, much less large format.

For a smaller 4x5 a $100 real Leitz or Marchioni Tiltall will get you by as well as a $200-250 tripod. These were used by the icons of mid-century photography for medium format, etc...

For more than that, look for a used Ries tripod and head. I have a J series for 4x5 (I put a 3025 head on it) and an A series (with Ries head) for bigger cameras. Both bought used on the forum here. They are good outdoor all weather tripods. Fine for indoor too, but there are many aluminum choices and traditional camera stands for indoor heavy duty as well.

The survey tripods are good too if you don't mind not having a tripod head or don't mind needing to adapt a tripod head.

[Lachlan 717]

To make it easier for us, please make links to the products you consider

The general rule here is big wood https://www.riestripod.com/

To make it easier for the person posting the information, please find links to the product you consider using Google.

As for your contention about the “general rule” being wood, I think you mean, “my rule”...

[Drew Wiley]

There's wood, and then there's wood. There's carbon fiber, and then there's carbon fiber. There's aluminum, and then there's aluminum. In other words, there's a significant range of build quality in any of these respective categories. Regardless, toy tripods are for toy cameras.

[m00dawg]

Thanks everyone! That was, uhh, a lot :) Gave me a lot to think about for sure with a wide array of options to consider. I'm not sure I'm any closer to figuring out which one to get but found some good sources for LF specific applications so thanks everyone - this has been very very helpful!

[Tin Can]

OP could post a WTB: 'Tripod' and see what comes up

I have only one little Ries, old model C, I bought on this forum

I use it for 5X7 lawn pictures of people and buildings. The spikes work well on lawn and my rig looks authentic

The 5X7 Poco is also light and matches, I cheat using a Horseman QR with no head

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51027401382_ba7dc54a54_w.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kK7LEs)Ries C (https://flic.kr/p/2kK7LEs) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Greg]

The truth is we all have at least 3 mistake tripods

Agree 100%. As far as heads go, I probably have had at least 5 mistake heads. The one brand that has never failed me is Kessler. Only regret was not acquiring one of their K-POD Tripods.

[Willie]

Might look for used Gitzo tripods - the larger models with the "wing nut" locking pieces on the legs. They will hold up well, are solid and seem to last forever. On the used market you find them high priced to often very low - because of their size and weight.

[Kiwi7475]

What’s the use case? If you’re hiking, a wood tripod and a ries head is not a (realistic) option for most people.

Look into a CF tripod from Gitzo, FLM or RSS instead, or a Leofoto if cost is paramount. Choose based on height/weight/load needs and stowed length. They will cost around the $1K range, Leofoto less than half that (everything in life is a compromise).

IMO Manfrotto, MeFoto, etc, are mistakes. You’ll end up spending more money.

[Two23]

Look for a used Gitzo 1325. Very sturdy and reasonably priced on ebay. Bought mine 15 years ago and it's going strong. I don't have a center column and never missed it.


Kent in SD

[Eric Woodbury]

No, we don't all agree on Reis.

[Tin Can]

Ok, lets post tripods

My hopefully last ever new tripod is this (https://flmusa.com/product/flm-cp38-l4-ii-carbon-fiber-tripod/)

I also bought the 100mm half ball (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1509171-REG/flm_32_34_100_hb_100_half_ball_for.html)so I wouldn't need a head

A member here is the NA sales Rep

Designed in Germany, made in China

I really like it, big spikes come with it, they are threaded 3/8-16 a near universal threading on tripods world wide

My hands hurt from decades of labor, this FLM I can adjust, but not old Gitzo of similar capacity

[Fred L]

I use a CF Gitzo for anything 5x7 and under. For 8x10 and 7x17 it's going to be Ries tripods with their two way heads. Have a surveyor tripod but never liked it, esp with the cord leg spread thing. If you can afford them, I'd go with either the appropriately sized CF Gitzo, or a Ries.

[Bernice Loui]

Beyond all that has already been greatly discussed about tripods (material, construction, brands, no center column and...) ability to balance the weight distribution of the camera makes a significant difference. This is easy on some monorail and field folder cameras, other cameras not possible at all. This means the tripod or camera support is forced to deal with off balance weight of the camera. This puts more stress on the tripod/camera support than it would have been loaded with a balanced camera on the tripod/camera support.

Rated weight capacity of the tripod is much secondary to the stability, rigidity, vibration control of any tripod. Beyond the tripod is the tripod head with all it's potential issues good and bad. Do this LF or similar image making stuff long enough, grows little tolerance for marginal and iffy camera support devices... as they have a great tendency to wreck your images in remarkable ways.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

Large folders tend to have a " dumbbell" wobble factor to a significantly greater degree than monorails, where most of the torque stress tends to be linear. One more reason for a platform-style mounting with good rigid legs directly beneath, distributing that force. Back when photographers looked at me like I was a nut for lugging Sinar gear all over the mountains, I pointed out how easy it was to balance the system anywhere along the rail, and how the use of longer rails allowed for petite long focal-length lenses versus bulky telephotos. Add the weight of everything up, and Sinar had distinctly more manageable field system than the Technikas that were routine back then, at least if someone wanted something rugged made of metal. Sinars had the additional advantage of modular components, making repairs and reconfiguration straightforward. I mostly work with the Sinar Norma now, which is only a pound more than comparable F models.

[Kiwi7475]

There is already a separate thread on “best ”. We can’t make sweeping statements here. Let’s try to answer OP’s question.

The problem though is that the OP doesn’t say what 8x10 camera he has or what the use case is.

Just based on the fact that his 4x5 are light weights (intrepid, Chamonix), I’m tempted to say that if you have a lightweight 8x10 (Chamonix alpinist, intrepid) and if want to minimize cost, a Leofoto CF tripod *and* a leveling base could be obtained for less than $500 and give you what you need: good stability (not the best but more than adequate), good packing ability, not too much weight, and some ability to level/point the camera. Of course if you need to point straight down then you will need something else.

If you have a heavy 8x10 then the tripod spectrum is radically different.

[Drew Wiley]

I have way too much field experience with a "lightweight" 8x10 (an original Phillips folder) to lump it into the same tripod category as anything merely 4x5 suitable. I can't even use the same Ries wooden model, or things would intolerably vibrate and wobble. My 8x10 CF tripod has distinctly thicker, stiffer legs than the CF tripod which works fine for all my 4x5 needs, even very long monorail extensions. Talk comes cheap. What does make sense, however, is to make certain you have return privileges if a model you happen to pick out does not prove stable enough under setup simulations. I'm frankly flabergasted when I encounter LF photographers losing their mind waiting for a camera to stop vibrating and settle down because they wanted to save just another pound or two of carry weight - but then there's a big heavy padded case sitting there beside them!

[esearing]

Save up for your dream gear and ignore the GAS and Gotta Have it Now syndrome.

You can modify most heads to accept an arca style QR release and plate or even a video QR/plate. If you buy the type of QR system that allows the QR plate to slide through then you can use a short or long rail for camera balance.
One other consideration no one mentions is walking with the camera mounted to the Tripod/head/QR system. All need to work together and not move if you tilt it or sling it over your shoulder.

My set up
FLM CF34-L4. (heavy duty and rated for more weight than my camera + lens will ever be)
Manfrotto 3 way Head with Normal QR plates for 4x5 and 5x12 (support rated at 17lbs)

I also have an older Aluminum Tripod with a GIOTTOS MH3000 and Video QR system. It held my Canon DSLR and a 600mm lens stable.

[Bernice Loui]

Linhof Technika(s) aka metal folder with the fixed point of tripod attachment and the IMO severe limitations with wide angle lenses became THE reasons they got booted from the usable camera list.

Might not be easily apparent initially as these Linhof camera are so well made and precision.. until the camera and bellows is racked all out with a BIG (copal# 3 shutter, largest that lens board will tolerate) long focal lens hanging on the lens end of the camera.. causing more camera support system (tripod and tripod head) instability than should be tolerated. Yet, they are not the only folders like this.

Again, with the Norma, simply slide the set up on the rail clamp until it balances on the support system and it makes ALL the difference in stability and vibration tolerance.

None of this is initially apparent with a "normal_ish" focal length lens, once the camera is pushed to it's extension and lens support limits with these problems will become apparent and less tolerable.


Bernice




Back when photographers looked at me like I was a nut for lugging Sinar gear all over the mountains, I pointed out how easy it was to balance the system anywhere along the rail, and how the use of longer rails allowed for petite long focal-length lenses versus bulky telephotos. Add the weight of everything up, and Sinar had distinctly more manageable field system than the Technikas that were routine back then, at least if someone wanted something rugged made of metal.

[William Whitaker]

Another vote here for FLM.
I have an FLM CP38-L4 II and couldn't be happier. I purchased it originally as a replacement for my big Ries (precursor to the A-100). I love the Ries and I love "vintage", so that tripod has a natural place under my 100 year-old Folmer & Schwing 12x20 as shown below. The CP38-L4 II is a very robust tripod and is made exceptionally well. Yes, it's expensive. But good things are. And besides, it's much less than hiring an assistant to carry the Ries.
After I bought the FLM last summer I happily sold my big Gitzo.
The FLM works for me for any format down to the little stuff.

Ari Tapiero is a member of this forum and the NA distributor for FLM. He is simply super to work with.

213714

213715

[Daniel Unkefer]

The FOBA C40 is the tripod in the Norma catalog for the 8x10 Norma. Over time I have accumulated two of them. My Zone VI Lightweight has never failed and survived being thrown into the trunk of my car hundreds of times during architectural assignments. It's been in the crashing surf in the Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico. It still lives. Manfrottos are lighter and more likely to fail. But they can be replaced reasonably when you just need the legs. Another FOBA I recently got is an ALFAE which came along for 180 Bucks so I could not say no. Later I looked it up in B&H and it's $1800. :) This tripod is MUCH lighter than the FOBA C40 but will solidly support an 8x10 Norma in high wind. The legs are infinitely extendable with FOBA Combitubes, of which I have a lot.

[Tin Can]

Speaking of Foba I bought a case of their sticks to build location platforms

Wish I had bought the second case too

I had no idea what I was buying for $20

[Mark Sawyer]

Another vote for the Ries. Quite a list of satisfied users: Ansel Adams, Edward, Brett, and Cole Weston, Paul Strand, Paul Caponigro, Michael Smith, Paula Chamlee, Tillman Crane...

[Tim Meisburger]

I seem to disagree with everyone. A stout CF is stout. Maybe not as stiff as a Ries, but not as heavy or expensive, so you have a trade off there. I think that pro 35mm cameras with long lenses put way more stress on a tripod than a balanced 8x10 with a typical landscape lens (except in windy conditions). To me the most important part of a tripod is the head, and that's were I made the most mistakes.

[Drew Wiley]

I foolishly bought a Zone VI tripod once. A few snow trips and the top began delaminating. The legs literally froze up if they got wet in freezing weather. It was just a modified survey tripod, but not even a good survey tripod. After making a new top the right way, and switching out its rusty ferrous parts, I eventually gave it to a friend for his night telescope. Ries is in a completely different league.

One problem with CF tripods is their lack of weight. That's a "pro" when you're carrying it, but a distinct "con" if you're setting up on spongy ground or in windy conditions. When I modified my Feisol CF for direct platform attachment of my 8X10 (no intervening head), I didn't use an ordinary turn-knob below the platform, but a stainless steel hook with 3/8-16 threading. That way I have something to hang my meter from, or in terms of increasing overall bully mass, can hang a mesh bag full of rocks if necessary.

Yep, wind..... A big view camera is essentially a kite, unless you happen to be a polka musician, and then it's an accordion. I've had the whole nine yards picked up and tossed by gusts of wind on several occasions - 8X10 camera, larger Ries maple tripod n' all. Fortunately, in each instance so far, it had a soft landing on grass or wildflowers. I don't think I want to roll that pair of dice again, however. Lately, I've been working with the P67 system on these windy March days instead. The 8x10 will come into its own next month. But the same Ries and specific CF tripod I use for 8x10 comes into play for my big 300EDIF P67 tele. It has two mounting sockets, one on the camera body and the other on a lens collar, and these are unitized to a bar of sealed maple hardwood, which in turn gets bolted directly to the platform tops of these tripods. That's how I evenly balance that kind of "tele on steroids". Way way more stable than the conventional methods of doing this.

[pdmoylan]

Suggest series 3 Gitzo (aluminum or carbon, can be 3 or 4 leg sections) with 1570 Magnesium head should work very well up t0 5x7. This may be suitable for 8x10 given weight and sturdiness, but I have never used 8x10. Drew mentions no center post, but frankly if you need added stability, you can hang added weight from the center post - otherwise, not useful unless you intend to extend the tripod above standing eye level and you are using a lift of ladder.

The only downside to this is the weight and I am suffering severe shoulder arthritis from carrying this weight along with an 8 pound camera over my shoulder for more than 35 years.

These tripods can be had used but need frequent leg/joint cleaning along with lithium lubricant to function well. They can take a lot of abuse but must be given TLC often.

[Kiwi7475]

C’mon guys, a ries tripod is 12 lbs and their head is 4 lbs.

You can get a CF tripod in the 3-4 lbs range and a leveling head for another lb. that’s like 3-4 times lighter.

I’m sure all the famous photographer used a ries, just as I’m sure they didn’t have to carry it themselves.

Everything has its place, and a ries is a great tripod if you don’t have to walk too far. Otherwise CF is the best option.

Everything’s a compromise.

[Mark Sawyer]

Everything has its place, and a ries is a great tripod if you don’t have to walk too far. Otherwise CF is the best option.

Everything’s a compromise.

And an 8x10 is the best camera compromise if you're walking a long ways?

[Kiwi7475]

And an 8x10 is the best camera compromise if you're walking a long ways?

You can get a 8x10 that weights 6.5 lbs, two lenses and 2-3 light film holders, etc, you can get everything you need under 25lbs, add water/food etc, and you have a doable load for long hikes.

Is that format the best camera compromise? Probably not.

Is a film camera the best camera compromise? Probably not.

Is photography the best career compromise? Probably not.

We don’t all make choices that are ‘best’ all the time. Sometimes not even once.

But that’s a separate discussion. My point is that if 8x10 is a fixed parameter then there are tripod options that enable long hikes.

[esearing]

One problem with CF tripods is their lack of weight. That's a "pro" when you're carrying it, but a distinct "con" if you're setting up on spongy ground or in windy conditions. When I modified my Feisol CF for direct platform attachment of my 8X10 (no intervening head), I didn't use an ordinary turn-knob below the platform, but a stainless steel hook with 3/8-16 threading. That way I have something to hang my meter from, or in terms of increasing overall bully mass, can hang a mesh bag full of rocks if necessary.

Yep, wind..... A big view camera is essentially a kite

An 8 foot piece of rope weighs a few ounces yet it can be used to anchor the lightest of tripods to the ground or a heavy pack. I have found it useful to secure my pack and/or tripod to a nearby tree when on very precarious perches.

[Drew Wiley]

Rope is somewhat elastic. But yes, I've done that. But it's even more important to tether yourself in such places! I routinely carried a short length of 1/2-inch kevlar line (25 or 30 ft) for raising or lowering the pack over difficult sections while scrambling rock or ice. Lots or uses. But at my present age, I try to avoid those difficult spots and have substituted a much lighter hank of line as part of routine backpacking kit.

[Luis-F-S]

I have two Ries J-100-2’s and one A-100. Wouldn’t use anything else.

[eli]

I'm looking for an affordable Gitzo Giant for some tall shooting on the road or in a studio, with stout aluminum legs, and the other features like Delux Studix Performance, (sp? it's late)which will give good performance for any 4x5, medium and small format cameras in difficult places or high winds.

I have used this type of about 8 foot Gitzo before and despite the weight, found it excellent.

I have smaller, Gitzo Reporter (three section legs) with a non-geared, two section center post and have loved it every minute I've ever used it and I like aluminum tripods such as these much nicer to use than 'super materials' like carbon.

Carbon won't make much of an impression on a dog, bear, thief, or oncoming motorcycle like a heavy metal Gitzo unit will, and almost always stays put, with a camera bag centered between three legs.

I've had large and medium Manfrotto and Bogen tripods and currently have a medium weight Davis and Sanford for studio use, if needed, but nothing beats Gitzo performance, for my needs.

I'll put a wanted ad on site as soon as I finish this, but for my limited dollars, I feel the quality of the older Gitzo tripods/heads is a much better buy, even if you can afford new carbon.

IMO.

[Drew Wiley]

My first tripod in the mountains was a Gitzo Reporter. One learns pretty fast the significant disadvantage of metal in seriously cold conditions. As soon as they came out with an equivalent carbon fiber unit I bought it and have never regretted the decision. But the first thing I did with it was permanently removed the center column and replace it with a centered turnbolt from below. Extension columns make zero sense for large cameras unless you're exposing with high speed flash in studio to tame the inevitable vibrations. Field use is an entirely different ballgame.

[Alan Gales]

If you are looking for wood, then I recommend Ries or Berlebach. I've owned both but prefer Ries for the leg locks and the double tilt heads. Both have excellent customer service whether you buy new or used. I own both Ries J100 and Ries A100 tripods with double tilt heads. Each support my Wehman 8x10 camera.

If you are looking at carbon fiber then contact Ari at FLM. He's a friend of mine and a great guy. He will be glad to answer all your questions. Ari is also a well respected member here on the forum too. He let me play with an FLM tripod once and they are very well made. People here on the forum who have bought from Ari have said that they were very happy with both him and the FLM tripods they bought.

https://www.flmcanada.com

[Eric Woodbury]

Alan, true enough. I just ordered a tripod from Ari, designed to my liking.

[neil poulsen]

It all depends on the 8x10. I have an Arca Swiss Misura style 8x10 that weighs under 13 lbs, and my Feisol 3372CF tripod has no problem supporting this camera.

[Alan Gales]

I had a Ries A-100 and hated it. I replaced it with a Manfrotto 3058 and love it. Same size and weight as the Ries but goes up twice as high.

Tripods are like cameras. A personal choice. What is right for one person is wrong for the next. It's fun arguing though! ;)

Oh, and The Rolling Stones are still better than the Beatles!

[m00dawg]

There is already a separate thread on “best ”. We can’t make sweeping statements here. Let’s try to answer OP’s question.

The problem though is that the OP doesn’t say what 8x10 camera he has or what the use case is.



This thread absolutely exploded haha so my apologies that I'm getting to this now (and still reading through the new posts); but this is a fair question. To answer it:

I don't have an 8x10 yet but was looking at either a Chamonix 810V or, much more likely, an Intrepid 8x10 to start. My current 4x5 is a Chamonix 45F2 but I started on an Intrepid 4x5 MK2 so I'm aware of the quality vs cost tradeoffs. I had also looked at some used (and quite heavy) monorails but I think I'd prefer a field camera. I have looked at some Deardorf's as well though their cost often approaches (or even exceeds) the Chammy price which I think is rather overpriced given the materials used in the Chammy along with the movements and the age of the Deardorf's (beautiful cameras though!)

Part of the reason I don't have an 8x10 kit yet is needing to get the everything-else such as a lens that covers 8x10, a tripod, etc. But if I was going to buy one today, I would likely be the Intrepid. It doesn't look nearly as professional but at the end of the day it's about making the photos, not how I look making the photos and I think it would be a good start as a means to see if I'll like 8x10 as a format or not without having to tie a bunch of capital up in the experiment.

TL;DR - I don't have an 8x10 camera yet but it will very likely be a lightweight field camera

[Drew Wiley]

I wouldn't get hooked on the cult-status of a Dorff. It might have once deserved its reputation; but a Chamonix will be a lot more functionally practical. I'd buy one if I didn't already own the godfather of that whole lineage of camera design, namely, the original 8x10 Phillips. In the field, simpler is better.

[Iga]

Oh, and The Rolling Stones are still better than the Beatles!

What a nonsense ! :-)

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

Can understand that 8X10s require mo' heavier than 4X5.... so maybe a Reiss or Surveyor's type of tripod is required. However, thankfully with no more than a 4X5, I'm very happy with a RRS - but not because of the brand, but because of the weight. Personally, I find ALL tripods are too expensive. I would almost reverse the discussion and begin with the tripod head you plan to use or think you need and work backwards from there. I think the head matters more... and highly highly highly recommend a geared head (Manfrotto 410 as a start) for the stability of the adjustment process - especially as the poundage of the camera rises. I bought one used from KEH for a huge discount off new (maybe $150?), and would then couple it with a used tripod to mount it on. Tin Can's right in that we all buy a lot of the wrong stuff. So start used and make mistakes at a fraction of the cost, and then when you know what you like and don't about your gear - fix the problems from a base of experience. I didn't, and my wallet now has a fairly low opinion of its owner. The point of opinions on this forum is a challenge to NOT make our mistakes but each of us has a different tale of woe. Like the old adage: "Wisdom is learned through experience, but most of the experience that teaches is bad." Truth is there are many right solutions, but more that aren't.

[linhofbiker]

What a nonsense ! :-)

I was a student engineering apprentice in England when the discussion of Stones/Beatles was popular around Christmas 1962. I think it came down to whether you were for the good guys (Beatles) or the bad boys (Stones). I thought that the music was good from both.

Some guys in 1962 thought that Buddy Holly would not have been popular if he had not died in 1959. Hey, my wife and I still like to dance to his music. Some music does go on forever e.g. Chuck Berry. Long live Rock and Roll!

[neil poulsen]

. . . NONE of the above. Avoid anything with a center column, or else remove that portion of it; it will be counterproductive for typical LF applications.

For heavier cameras like most 8x10s, that's good advice.

But for lightweight cameras, a center column can be useful. I've used my Feisol CF tripod with it's center-column installed for Arca Swiss 4x5, Sinar 4x5, etc. It's also good for medium format cameras and 35mm digital.

That said, I wouldn't extend it much past it's middle extension. Otherwise, it's just asking for moment arm vibrations.

[Two23]

I have a Chamonix 4x5, Gundlach Korona 5x7, and Kodak 2D 8x10. Have a Ries J250 head. Just ordered a Ries J100-2 tripod. I need something solid out here on the windy plains.


Kent in SD

[Drew Wiley]

Center column with MF, Neil? Well, I happen to use the P67 system especially for its excellent telephoto lenses. The combination with a 300EDIF is more difficult to stabilize than a typical 8x10. I use the same Ries and Feisol tripods as for my 8x10, and with two mounts - a thread on the camera, and one on a lens collar, both unified onto an especially solid maple hardwood/phenolic bar, which in turn is directly bolted to the platform top of the tripod. No tripod head, no center column. That's how to get the job done! Try shooting that atop a column and vibrations would be worse than doing the Charleston atop a dance floor made of Jello.

[brad martin]

Bought a Gitzo 1325 between 12 to 15 years ago. Last year I decided I wanted a center column for it. Ordered from B&H and it fit perfect. I actually have two Gitzo's. Also a 1228. They are kinda like a Pentax Digital Spotmeter. They're so good you should just suck it up and get one. You won't regret it.

[Drew Wiley]

I left two center column in a big drawer somewhere, and have found no reason to look for them. Might as well be Pogo sticks.

[RivetGun]

I have 2 Miller DS10's.
I Payed $1,100 for a complete kit 10 years ago that I have used a LOT.
Recently I bought a very nice used one that was missing the fluid head handle for $125.
They are light, strong, solid, extremely versatile and very quick to set up on anything from ice to mud.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

I love using my Technika IV on a Gitzo carbon fiber GT5543LS tripod with a Gitzo G1570M Series 5 Low Profile 3-Way tripod head, photographing with a Rodenstock Apo-Ronar 9/360 in a Compur Electronic 3 shutter. It's far more compact and sturdier than any Sinar camera I have got (P, C, F). And very transportable.

I adore using the Schneider-Kreuznach Suoer-Angulon 8/75 on a wide angle device, a recessed lensboard or on a focusing helicoid, with the same camera, too, because I have central tilt on the back and the with the recessed lensboard the 75mm fits into the closed camera. I always use the Gitzo head. Where is the problem?



Linhof Technika(s) aka metal folder with the fixed point of tripod attachment and the IMO severe limitations with wide angle lenses became THE reasons they got booted from the usable camera list.

Might not be easily apparent initially as these Linhof camera are so well made and precision.. until the camera and bellows is racked all out with a BIG (copal# 3 shutter, largest that lens board will tolerate) long focal lens hanging on the lens end of the camera.. causing more camera support system (tripod and tripod head) instability than should be tolerated. Yet, they are not the only folders like this.

Again, with the Norma, simply slide the set up on the rail clamp until it balances on the support system and it makes ALL the difference in stability and vibration tolerance.

None of this is initially apparent with a "normal_ish" focal length lens, once the camera is pushed to it's extension and lens support limits with these problems will become apparent and less tolerable.


Bernice

[grat]

What a nonsense ! :-)

As a Pink Floyd fan, I have to agree. :)

[Drew Wiley]

Daniel - Bernice is correct, both in theory and in practice. Sinar monorails are way easier to balance using that rail as a fully adjustable fulcrum point, versus any flatbed or technical camera. My own brother used a Super Technika 4x5. It needed a lot more support than any of my field Sinars (F2, Norma, etc), especially when long end-heavy telephotos were in play. I routinely equip my Sinar with an 18 inch rail. I'm a long lens addict, and let a long bellow do the work with a petite lens on the end, rather than a brick of a telephoto. But I do have admiration for low-profile Gitzo pan/tilt heads. I use one of those for much of my MF shooting. But as everyone probably knows by now, I prefer zero head when shooting large format.

And the way I pack em up, I'd argue that the Sinar field system (exclusive of P,C, or X models) can be packed up quite efficiently for travel. I've carried em in backpacks well over ten thousand miles of steep mountain terrain over the decades, along with all the food, supplies, tent, and mountain gear necessary for extended trips in the very same pack! No, I'm not still doing that in my 70's. Just for day use now. A little Ebony folder substitutes for those longer trips these days. Sinars are also very easy to repair simply by switching out components if something gets broken. Almost everything is interchangeable despite which generation of camera is involved.

[Jody_S]

I've been using Manfrotto for many decades now, they're heavy and I've had a number of issues with things like the 2-stage center column and some of their leg locking mechanisms. I recently came into a Miller Lightweight II aluminum tripod (for CAD$20!), I was very impressed with Miller Canada who had parts in stock at very reasonable prices and lightning-fast shipping for the 1 small problem it had. I may have a new tripod for 8x10, just waiting for my bowl adapter to arrive. It is much lighter than the comparable Manfrotto and quite close to the 1 no-name carbon fiber tripod I have, while being much sturdier. I'll make a string to hold the legs if I'm on slippery ground, I don't see the need to buy their spreader kit or carry chains around. It has the hooks I need for a strap, too.

[Leszek Vogt]

OK, let me beat this horse some more. I get the fact that 8x10 requires sturdier tripod due to its mass. Sure, one can use CF, wood, alum, etc. for support. I think lighter is better....and although I have nothing against Ries or hefty sticks, one can stabilize the lens & camera by attaching one of those magic arms, since none of us is trying to catch action (?) at Indy 500 or using it for BIF. Granted the movement of the camera is restricted, but...

Les

[Drew Wiley]

but .... indeed. What about spongy ground, wind gusts, slippery spots? Sometimes there is just no substitute for bully mass. Glad I took along the big Ries yesterday. Sure, my CF option would have easily handled the weight per se, and even with ample rigidity. But due to the relatively constant onshore wind gusts, my success ratio of unblurred shots would probably have been undermined. The cold wind is outright howling today, nearly all day long. Typical June weather here.