View Full Version : film hangar flow pattern

ronald moravec
29-Jan-2006, 05:46
I have noticed streak marks in areas of smooth tone that correspond to the drain holes in the bottom of my film hangars. Reducing agitation and presoaking create mottling.

I have been using D76 undiluted and HB110 b with 4x5 FP4+.

Based on past studies, this is most likely coming from the the initial immersion when the turbulance at the hole location causes faster local absorbtion of developer. Later immersions contribute also.

I have tried slowing the rate of immersion to no avail.

Will increasing the developer dilution mitigate the problem or are there other solutions such as maybe a two part developer.

29-Jan-2006, 06:03
presoak the film in plain water for a minute or two before the developer stage. Doing this will require longer development times to compensate for the slower absorbtion of developer into the film because its full of plain water.

note that some people are anti presoak because, they say, developer take up is more even from unsoaked film. Others say developer take up is more even if film has been presoaked. Take your pick.

Try it and see if it solves your problem.

John Sarsgard
29-Jan-2006, 06:03
I frequently use D76 1+1 with hangers and HP5+. I never have any streaking. I agitate initially for a full minute, but initial immersion is straight in, very quickly. I agitate by bringinging the hangers up, tip 45 degrees to the right. Submerge, bring up and tip 45 degrees left. Submerge, continue. The only streaking problems I've had with any film/developer combination were when initial agitation wasn't long enough.

David A. Goldfarb
29-Jan-2006, 07:28
I agree with John Sarsgard. The solution for this problem is more vigorous agitation, not less. If you're trying to do some sort of minimal agitation or stand development, maybe try John's suggestion at the beginning before letting it stand.

29-Jan-2006, 11:15
some film/developer combinations are more prone to streaking than others. one of the reasons i switched from agfapan/d-76 was constant problems with edge density buildup.

if you can't solve the problem by tweaking the presoak/agitation, it might be worth looking at different chemistry.

29-Jan-2006, 11:45
I had issues with uneven development, and surge marks as well when I first started developing sheets with hangers and tanks. After increasing agitation, these marks went away, and I now get very even development.

Perhaps you're being *too* gentle, and need to increase turbulence in the developer - you want random motion in the developer, so don't be afraid to be a bit more agressive when you develop - witin reason, of course!

ronald moravec
29-Jan-2006, 11:55
Thanks all.

I photographed a 2x4 foot white plastic panel exposed to middle grey. Cut the HC110 B with an equal amount of water and increased time 50%.

I also increased the the agitation to about 10/12 in and out cycles that took a minute to complete. Immersions were fast, not slow.

Don`t know if the more diluted developer solved the problem or the longer first agitation cycle that John Sarsgard suggested, but the problem appears to be cured.

The next step was to be DK 50 which was a common developer for deep tanks.

james mickelson
29-Jan-2006, 18:06
I use the hangers when I have a lot of film to develope. I've had no problems with it at all. Presoak. Then initially agitate for 10 secs then drop in tank. Wait a minute and then pull up, tip to the side and drop back in. 30 secs later pull out, tip to the other side and drop back in tank. I do this throughout my development time and then pull and drop in plain water and agitate the s*#t out of it for 30 secs. If you want, pull out every 60 secs. Depends on how much development you want and how much contrast you desire. I occasionally hear about streaking but I've never experienc ed any nor have I ever seen any. If you want less contrast, then don't scimp on agitation but dilute your developer more.

Jim Rhoades
30-Jan-2006, 07:25
I had found density build up on edges with Rodinal on 8x10 Tri-x. I went back to D-76 at 1+1. For deep tanks Kodak says agitate continuously for the first 15 to 30 seconds by raising and lowering rack 1/2 inch. Do not agitate for the remainder of the first minute. Then agitate once per minute by lifting the rack out of the developer, tilting it approximately 30 degrees, draining it for 5 to 10 seconds, and reimmersing it. Alternate the direction of tilting the rack.

Note; I think this is pretty easy agitation, and it works very well. I do use a presoak of about one minute.

Check, www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techpubs/f9.

Bruce Wehman
30-Jan-2006, 07:57
A neat habit to get into when using hangers is to load the film with the notch code up. Since most sky shots are horizontal, this places the sky away from the hanger holes.

ronald moravec
31-Jan-2006, 03:10
Actually it is notch down. A brain teaser. And it won`t work with vertical pics.

Being old and stubborn, I tried the Kodak procedure twice yesterday. It calls for simply raising the and lowering the hangar 1/2 inch for the 15/30 sec first agitation cycle. It did not work.
Full in/out/tilt seems to be required. I tried two runs of 1 sheet each and both were bad.

Bruce Wehman
31-Jan-2006, 12:32
Sorry for the confusion, I meant: Load the film in the processing hanger with the notch code up.

Yes, the notch is down, in the camera, when the holder is inserted right-handed. Since the sky is on the bottom, where the notch is, you would load the hanger with the notch up, to keep the sky on top, or away from the holes in the hanger, which are on the bottom. Lefties would do it the other way. It’s a habit that I got into many years ago and there’s no doubt that it has saved a few shots along the way, given the volume.

That said, I sympathize with your frustration. Surge is one of those things that you will occasionally get, no matter what you do. Just look at the work of some of the “Old Masters.”