Cougars

[John Kasaian]

Over the past two decades I've noticed warning signs about mountain lions at National Forest/Parks trailheads.
A ranger I asked told me it was for liability issues---if a cougar caused injury, consider yourself forewarned.
Personally. I've only seen one mountain lion in the wild and heard local accounts of only a couple more.
Not too terribly concerning really, but then over the past two years there have been quite a few in urban coastal areas,
Then this goes viral:

https://youtu.be/9ktRhBcHza4

Be careful out there!

[Alan Klein]

I once was attacked by a goose. It didn't like me taking its picture. Be careful out there.

[Wayne]

That's it..keeeeeeeep backing away like you're prey and make wuffing sounds like a startled deer....just keep doing that....attaboy....

[Michael Graves]

I was going to post my photo of a cougar, but her husband threatened to sue me if I did.

[LabRat]

I was going to post my photo of a cougar, but her husband threatened to sue me if I did.

You can attract them with a bottle of chardonnay... ;-)

Steve K

[Vaughn]

When that video came out, my first thought was the guy was an idiot and should get fined for distrubing wildlife.

[Heroique]

If nothing else, this is an instructive video about what a stalking cougar's behavior looks like.

Also, the guy didn't panic and run away (good), didn't take his eyes off the cat (good), spoke firmly to it (good), but failed to toss rocks at it until several minutes into the terrifying encounter. And that, I believe, had the desirable effect it would have had at the beginning.

Up in the mountains in my region, if I'm alone on certain trails, I sometimes clip-on a pair of "googly eyes" on the back of my cap!

[Andrew O'Neill]

Lots of cougars wandering around my neighbourhood...but I'm too old, so I don't have to worry.

[Drew Wiley]

They generally "stalk" out of curiosity. In very rare cases, they'll act aggressively if you accidentally get between them and their targeted prey, or too near their cubs. They are one least dangerous large wild predators in the world toward humans. You have about a million times higher risk of getting killed by someone's domestic dog than by a mountain lion. The classic mistake the guy in the video made was not "standing his ground" and tossing rocks from there with an attitude of authority, but showing conspicuous fear. Cougars are abundant in this area, and have even gotten suburbanized enough to be frequently spotted in back yards, or sleeping on someone's back porch in certain burbs adjacent to wooded areas. That's not a good thing because they're getting habituated to people; but so far there have been no actual incidents. Now the custom is for wildlife officials to come, tranquilize them, and relocate them. Orphaned kittens have been rescued from burn areas and given to zoos.

One should have small children close by when hiking in cougar territory. But I played in the woods all the time as a child, heard cougar screams at night; they were all around - never an incident. I saw some tracks on a ridge near here last week. They are known to take outdoor pets in some places. Here it's hard to tell if they sometimes take wild turkeys or not, or more likely bobcats are eating them. Coyotes respect the ability of turkeys to kick, and mostly go for rodents, while the lions are deer specialists, but will take smaller game like rabbits if it's an easy snack.

When I was a teenager, I'd accompany an older friend who was a wildlife researcher, and we'd go to some promising area, put big bright handkerchief in our back pockets to attract attention, and slowly walk the back trails.
The point of doing this in pairs is that when a cougar got curious, he'd "stalk" us slightly behind, just out of sight, and one of us could slip behind a tree to watch it closely while it went by following the person ahead. We'd take turns. These particular lions were the mountain variety and huge compared to the ones here on the coast, since the prey mule deer were themselves way bigger than the small coastal blacktails here. We were armed of course, just in case, but never felt under threat; and I would hate to actually shoot one of these beautiful intelligent animals. Once the lion knew it was him being watched, rather than the other way around, it took off. The most remarkable was a huge tom that carefully placed his foot prints inside ours on a muddy back road, apparently assuming his own prints would be concealed that way. Remarkable behavior. I've read that leopards have done the same thing.

[John Kasaian]

There's a problem with that throwing rocks advise.
We're advised to stand upright to make ourselves look as large as possible, but then
you have to bend over---making yourself appear smaller--- in order to pick up the rocks!
It sounds like something a government agency would dream up.

[Vaughn]

I assume the guy used a camera phone. He got out his phone and got close enough to two lion cubs to see them clearly in the video. I remember reading he claimed he thought they were perhaps bobcats or something.

So he saw lion cubs, got out his phone and got closer to the cubs. He is just dang lucky he still only has one arsehole.

If I see cubs -- lion or bear...I'm heading the opposite direction ASAP. He was an idiot. He was not being 'stalked'...he was being told to get the hell away.

[Robert Tilden]

I think this was more of a "go away" bluff than an "I want to eat you" stalk. According to the NYTimes article that accompanied their link to the video the man said that he had just seen 3 or 4 cubs before the encounter with the mother. Cougars, from what I've read, are 'ambush' predators, and this certainly wasn't an ambush. In other cougar/panther news, video of a family of 5 (https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/03/04/florida-man-spots-5-elusive-florida-panthers-single-day/) in the Everglades.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, you don't just lay there stooped over, John. All the local "government agencies", as you phrase it, put up signs at the trailheads telling you to look tall and not run. Mtn lions have lived around humans for many thousands of years, and by now instinctively realize we throw hard things, or use sticks as defense. Local Native Americans would put on deer skins with antlers atop in order to infiltrate deer herds close enough to shoot them with a bow. That was probably a worst case scenario if a cougar had been nearby. But I never heard any stories or legends about attacks. Lions were so shy of humans that they were given mythic status in many of those cultures as almost ghosts, silently and secretly inhabiting the forest, and rarely actually seen.

It must have been really fun to go out hunting back when cougars were the smallest of the big cats around. Right around when you now live, John, there would have been jaguars larger than any now living, lions bigger than African lions, two or three species of saber-toothed cats. But they would have all gotten out of the way if short-faced bears showed up; even the oversized grizzlies of that era would have cleared out.

We do have a rogue coyote the next town over, which has bitten four people in the same shopping complex so far. DNA saliva tests confirm it's the very same coyote. No rabies, and no serious bites yet. But they are having a hard time trapping it. Very unusual behavior with no natural fear. So you just never know.

[Heroique]

There's a problem with that throwing rocks advice.
We're advised to stand upright to make ourselves look as large as possible, but then
you have to bend over---making yourself appear smaller--- in order to pick up the rocks!
It sounds like something a government agency would dream up.

It does sound like a committee finding, way too rational and over-thought. :D

On the other hand, one can always hold-up your hat when crouching down for a rock (and why not keep holding your hat up).

BTW, rocks or no rocks, I have imagined holding-up my hiking stick with a jacket or cap on it!

[Drew Wiley]

Vaughn, I once accidentally stumbled right smack into the middle of a cougar harem, or more precisely, several potential mates. The huge tom was, at the same time, accidentally cornered by me right in a granite "book" adjacent. And he wasn't amused. Snarling, tail twitching - not a good place to be. So I chambered a round in the rifle, took it off safety, and SLOWLY and cautiously worked my way backwards without losing eye contact.
Didn't run, didn't show fear - was too soberly scared to do that! The females quickly all ran off. The big tom stayed put until I was well out of the way.

The only truly belligerent cat I ever had experience with was a cripple that had lost a front leg and was desperately hungry. It was taking penned goats in the area, so I and a friend were hired to deal with it. It did stalk both of us as a potential meal, but, being crippled, had an enormous disadvantage. It did eventually catch up with my friend, who by then was out in the open, waiting for it with a 30-30. End of story. They weren't a protected species back then, and this one would have slowly starved in misery anyway sooner or later.

[Vaughn]

I came into the hills a little late, being a city boy and all that. I would probably be amazed at what I did not see in front of my face. Before I start packing mules (all of the 80s) I had done a lot of rough backpacking in the western US and New Zealand. A lot of 10 day solo hikes down into the Grand Canyon, and of course local stuff. But I still had city-trained eyes.

While I have seen lion on the road into the Yolla Bollys, I missed seeing any in the wilderness. Packing mules, of course did not help -- hunters do the same. We worked the trails, weren't silent about it...any self-respecting lion would decide to be elsewhere. But I have not seen any on my solo hikes there since then either -- but perhaps this June/early July. I should would like to get back up there and see what the fires of last summer did to the place. They just had to let the wilderness burn and hit the edges growing towards people.

[Leszek Vogt]

Although I'd try not to hurt the animal (if at all possible).... he had millions of rocks to pick and plenty sticks on the way. He could have hurled it near the animal....eliminating the drama....echoing what others said, tho that was my thought before reading.... No idea what he was thinking. Maybe he was too busy gazing at the phone....

Les

[Vaughn]

Rocks and sticks were not going to do the trick with a mom protecting her cubs.

[John Kasaian]

The one I saw was crossing the Alaska Highway, somewhere in the Yukon in the snow (it was winter) A magnificent animal!

In the foothills above our little ranch was wild fig tree where locals claimed a cougar hung out. A lot of livestock and dogs had been killed in the area and I found tracks on our place where there was a poor old horse I was trying to rescue.
The best I could do was to put that horse down---better than being lion vittles. The coyotes and vultures had that horse down to the bones in less than a week.
I bleached the skull and have it hanging on the fence in the back yard,

[Drew Wiley]

Animals have different strategies. Two weeks ago I was hiking atop a ridge when I noticed a man with a big dog descending the next ridge right along the edge of thick trees and vegetation. A coyote went absolutely berserk howling and yowling, yipping, and even barking (uncommon for coyotes). I realized it must have been a mom trying to distract the dog away form some nearby denning site. It's that time of year for young pups. Lions tend to use threat displays including partial charges, just like bears. But if you accidentally find yourself just too close, no telling.

The actual documented fatalities from lion attacks in this state over its entire officially recorded history could probably be counted on one hand. By contrast, there were seven fatalities to infants from Pekinese house dogs in a single year here in the Bay Area alone, and over five hundred case of emergency room treatment for bite attack in SF alone that same year.

An frail elderly man was attacked in Redwood NP by a lion conspicuously intent on eating him; but the man's wife beat it off with a stick. An infamous case of a jogger being eaten by a lion in the hills outside Sacramento a decade earlier was proven to be a homicide victim merely scavenged by the cat afterwards. Two joggers killed in Colorado were the victims of the same half-tamed young cougar which was released without normal survival skills, yet habituated to people. They're the decathlon champions of the animal world, so need to be respected - only their closest relatives, cheetahs, can sprint faster; only one species of antelope can jump higher, nothing can leap further, either on the run or from a crouching position.

Up the street, about a mile down the dirt road into the park itself, a co-worker of mine encountered a small cougar twice at a water trough. Rangers must have been aware of its habits too; and since a picnic table is right there, and frequently children playing around, they unhooked the water. The wildlife still has a water source in nearby creek. I was alway more worried about rubber boas getting trampled by horses in that spot. They're such a docile and beautiful snake that they've gotten endangered due to the pet trade. There's no mistaking them - they look just like a miniature anaconda. Pretty small around here; but I've encountered em up to 4 ft long elsewhere. True constrictors - just lay there waiting for some mouse or gopher, and then a sudden suffocating squeeze.

[Heroique]

Rocks and sticks were not going to do the trick with a mom protecting her cubs.

Actually, it was a toss of small rocks/gravel that made her sprint away, according to his account I read when this was released. At video’s end, if his account is true, you can tell he’s crouching down, then standing up, presumably with rocks that are tossed, followed by the cat dashing away down the road. Of course, as you suggest, a protective mother will be more inclined to ignore projectiles than a big cat who’s merely curious.

[Drew Wiley]

Vaughn - young cubs tend to be kept hidden, just like domestic kittens. And the mother will be very cautious where they're led. After that, as they get a little bigger, they tend to scatter and climb if they feel threatened.
A mother has nothing to gain by attacking a human if a mere bluff works. Even mother bears normally do that. But unlike lions, unexpected sudden close encounters with grizzly bears with cubs has led to serious maulings. But even those are rare. The most dangerous wild large mammal in N. America is the bison. Lots of stupid tourists like to get snapshots up close of those; but a bull is a bull is a bull ... matadors in training.

[Mark Sawyer]

Maybe she just wanted her tummy rubbed...

[Heroique]

Maybe she just wanted her tummy rubbed...

You go first! :cool:

[Drew Wiley]

Saw a cute video of someone tummy-rubbing a pet hedgehog last nite. Nowhere else to do it! You don't commonly find porcupines at the pet store either. Plenty of mtn lions have been kept as pets. They're a lot easier to tame as kittens than bobcats. An early employer of mine had two large cougars roaming his house. Then he told me, "I didn't like the way they looked at me, so got rid of them". I've seen that look before, out in my own backyard, when a mockingbird lands in a small tree, and one of our cats napping below wakes up.

[h2oman]

I was going to post my photo of a cougar, but her husband threatened to sue me if I did.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to go there! :cool:

[Mark Sampson]

"If called by a panther,
don't anther"
-Ogden Nash

[Drew Wiley]

Puma, Catamount, Panther, Cougar, Mountain Lion - also synonymous with a Golden Retriever based on a panic 911 call by a local golf course resident. Yep, those vicious critters eat their victims alive by licking them while wagging their tails.

[Vaughn]

Actually, it was a toss of small rocks/gravel that made her sprint away, according to his account I read when this was released. At video’s end, if his account is true, you can tell he’s crouching down, then standing up, presumably with rocks that are tossed, followed by the cat dashing away down the road. Of course, as you suggest, a protective mother will be more inclined to ignore projectiles than a big cat who’s merely curious.

True...but picking up rocks or stick at the first instance of the encounter would have been counterproductive. By the time he threw the rocks there was considerable distance between him and the cubs, with the mom in between. At first encounter, both visible cubs were on the trail in front of him, with the mom on the opposite side of the cubs.

[John Kasaian]

Puma, Catamount, Panther, Cougar, Mountain Lion - also synonymous with a Golden Retriever based on a panic 911 call by a local golf course resident. Yep, those vicious critters eat their victims alive by licking them while wagging their tails.

Got to watch out for them Basset Hounds as well!

[Vaughn]

A couple of CA game wardens told a story of a car coming out of the mountains with a great dane strapped to the hood. These were a couple of characters that usually worked on San Francisco Bay, but worked the opening deer seasons around the State. I'd pack them into the Yolla Bollys -- the end of Sept or into October and one can catch some weather. Our local game warden was not too impressed with them.

[Heroique]

A group of LFers are in the woods when an angry mother cougar appears... :D

Here’s the one-page cougar safety brochure from the NPS!

213511

How many of these things would you have remembered to do?

I’m going to say this guy, except for being an idiot for approaching a cub in the first place, did mostly the right things after he got himself into big trouble, except waiting so long before tossing rocks.

[j.e.simmons]

I was once in a Florida swamp, my 8x10 set up, waiting for the best light. I was photographing a fallen tree, so I was pretty much confined as far as escape routes. I heard a rustling in the bushes, crouched down and saw a wild boar. He was a fair distance away in a more or less open area. My dark cloth was over my shoulders, so I grabbed two corners and tossed the cloth into the air as I stood up and roared. I suppose I looked like some kind of 12-foot tall monster to the pig. He bounded through the swamp for as far as I could see. I was just glad he had plenty of choices to escape.

[John Kasaian]

I was once in a Florida swamp, my 8x10 set up, waiting for the best light. I was photographing a fallen tree, so I was pretty much confined as far as escape routes. I heard a rustling in the bushes, crouched down and saw a wild boar. He was a fair distance away in a more or less open area. My dark cloth was over my shoulders, so I grabbed two corners and tossed the cloth into the air as I stood up and roared. I suppose I looked like some kind of 12-foot tall monster to the pig. He bounded through the swamp for as far as I could see. I was just glad he had plenty of choices to escape.

If that didn't work, reading him a recipe for making Chili Verde might frighten him off. LOL!

[John Kasaian]

Here’s the one-page cougar safety brochure from the NPS!

213511
.
Good info if you see the cougar. They are lightening fast and when hunting most often attack from the rear. That's what concerns me!

[Alan Klein]

That's it..keeeeeeeep backing away like you're prey and make wuffing sounds like a startled deer....just keep doing that....attaboy....What are you suppose to do? I would have thrown those big rocks at it.

[Heroique]

Good info if you see the cougar. They are lightening fast and when hunting most often attack from the rear. That's what concerns me!

I agree, very concerning!

That Cougar Safety Brochure (PDF above) is so full of good tips not already mentioned in this thread, I thought I’d make the first part of it more visible below. Keep in mind these tips don’t necessarily apply to other potentially dangerous animals, such as grizzlies or mountain goats. Depending on the animal, one’s behavior might need to be very different than the suggestions below.

----------

(Source: Olympic National Park, Wash. State)

You Are in Cougar Country! Cougars are large, seldom seen inhabitants of the Olympic wilderness. Like any wild animal, they can be dangerous. Attacks on humans are rare, but can occur. To most visitors, glimpsing a cougar in the wild is thrilling. Though few people will ever see a cougar, if you do see one, the following suggestions can increase your chances of a safe encounter.

Preventing An Encounter

Don’t hike or jog alone
Keep children within sight & close to you
Avoid dead animals
Keep a clean camp
Leave pets at home
Be alert to your surroundings
Use a walking stick

If You Meet a Cougar

Don’t run, it may trigger a cougar’s attack instinct
Stand and face it
Pick up children
Appear large, wave arms or jacket over your head
Do not approach, back away slowly
Keep eye contact

If Cougar is Aggressive

Don’t turn your back or take your eyes off it
Remain standing
Throw things
Shout loudly
Fight back aggressively

Please report all cougar sightings to the nearest ranger station or park headquarters, 600 East
Park Ave., Port Angeles, WA 98362, (360) 565-3000, or dial 911 in an emergency.

###

[Vaughn]

And if a lioness is actively protecting her cubs -- throwing rocks at her and her cubs is something I do not recommend.

[Corran]

Interesting video.

I was lucky enough to spot 2 Florida Panthers back in December, while hiking alone. They were far away and went into the bush as I watched (they had seen me at this point). I cautiously walked past the area as it was on the trail back to my car, but luckily they were small and most likely juvenile.

We have coyotes here - I have heard them, including killing something I believe was a rabbit in my back yard.

It's not easy to think rationally in crazy unusual circumstances I would think! Give the guy a break...

I have tossed rocks at alligators blocking my path...

[Alan Klein]

I agree, very concerning!
...

Please report all cougar sightings to the nearest ranger station or park headquarters, 600 East
Park Ave., Port Angeles, WA 98362, (360) 565-3000, or dial 911 in an emergency.

###
Do you call Park Headquarters during or after the sighting?
:rolleyes:

[Heroique]

Do you call Park Headquarters during or after the sighting? :rolleyes:

I would love for someone to call Park Headquarters and ask this! Their answer might be priceless. Any volunteers? But in all seriousness, I think they’d say, “As soon as it’s safe to do so.” For the quicker they get the information, the more successful would be any action they might have to take.

[Vaughn]

I...It's not easy to think rationally in crazy unusual circumstances I would think! Give the guy a break...
I should. It is an automatic reflex these days to pull out the phone/camera before engaging the brain, so I'll give him that.

A trail thru our local redwoods that I use to take my three 3 years olds on hikes had a couger attack on it several years ago. The lion had an older man's head in its mouth and the wife ended up trying to stab the lion's eyes with a ballpoint pen. The man survived, but had a heck of a time with infections.

There are few rocks along the trails in the redwoods. Two young lions were found and killed.

The Park just wants the information to keep a record of any sightings.

[Alan Klein]

I would love for someone to call Park Headquarters and ask this! Their answer might be priceless. Any volunteers? But in all seriousness, I think they’d say, “As soon as it’s safe to do so.” For the quicker they get the information, the more successful would be any action they might have to take.

'Hello, is this the Ranger Station? Can I talk to Smokey? ...Well, Smokey, I've sighted a cougar or it might be a mountain lion, not sure. I was reading your instructions. My situation doesn't seem to be covered."

"Well, Sir, just what is your situation?"

"Well, it's chewing on my left arm, right now. So I can't raise it above my head to look bigger. What should I do?"

"Oh," says Smokey. "In that case, just let him have it. You got another."

[Heroique]

Here’ a very difficult question I’ve often tried to imagine an answer for, but none of them fully satisfies me.

Let’s say you’re on a quiet trail, you’ve taken all the precautions – but suddenly, there’s a cougar hugging you from behind, teeth searching for neck, claws scratching your chest, and naturally, you begin falling to the ground…

Seems you might have a few seconds, a very precious few, to do something which might prove effective and save your life.

What is your next best step? Sure, fight back, but specifically, what does that mean doing in the next 3 or 5 seconds?

(I'm mostly interested in serious answers, but funny answers are allowed.)

[Vaughn]

One will have to fall back on one's inner beastie and fight back anyway one can -- I'd go for the eyes and push my thumbs in as far as they would go. That is about the most one can do to hurt a lion without weapons. It worked for the old couple. We'll be equal weight, with a chance I'll have a few pounds more, so I have a chance of rolling with the beast -- perhaps downhill to encourage separation.

And while I am dreaming, I'll pick up the cat and toss it down the hill.

I think I ran across the couple that were attacked a few years later on the trail -- they had more stuff on their belts than a police officer. Bear spray, knife, first aid, etc. I'll give them a lot of credit for being out there again.

[Wayne]

What are you suppose to do? I would have thrown those big rocks at it.

First of all, don't approach the damn kitty. Second of all, and most importantly, stand your ground and don't back away. Those 2 alone probably would have ended the encounter with 99.999% certainty. Third of all, stop taking videos. I only watched the first 60 seconds, I couldn't bear 5 more minutes of whatever stupidity happened (unnecessarily) after that...

[Mark Sawyer]

I think we can all agree, the most important thing is to take out your cell phone and make a youtube video with breathless narration...

[Drew Wiley]

Will they set up a hotline for marmot sightings next?

[John Kasaian]

LOL!
There's an old story about a hiker reporting to a Ranger that she saw a rattlesnake on a trail and that her guide book said that rattlesnakes aren't found above 9,000'
The Ranger informed the hiker that that particular rattlesnake obviously hadn't read the book.

[Vaughn]

I think we can all agree, the most important thing is to take out your cell phone and make a youtube video with breathless narration...

Right there at #1 on the list of important things to do. (satire)

That is why I think he is an idiot and deserves a ticket for disturbing wildlife. Instead of doing what is required by law in many parks (staying away or moving away from wild animals immediately) he saw the cubs, took out his phone, turned it on to video, approached the cubs closer -- and managed to keep the video going 'surprising' smoothly during the lion's defensive movements.

[Heroique]

Here’s the cougar that was tracked and killed in the foothills near my Seattle home (2018).

213547

Days earlier, it attacked two thirty-something mountain bikers, killing one and severely injuring the other. The bikers did everything right, but sometimes that’s not enough. (They didn’t have bear spray, and that may have worked.)

BTW, one issue that needs repeating is how incredibly rare any kind of cougar attack is, even as sightings grow more common with rising population densities. We have about 2,500 cougars in Washington state, but the bicycler’s death was only the second fatal attack in 100 years. (And in all of North America, over 100 years, make that about 25 fatal attacks and 120 non-fatal ones.)

In all my time in Wash. state’s wilderness, Cascades and Olympics, I’ve never seen or heard a cougar, but I’ll venture to say that hundreds of cougars have probably seen me … from a scary-close distance.

[Alan Klein]

LOL!
There's an old story about a hiker reporting to a Ranger that she saw a rattlesnake on a trail and that her guide book said that rattlesnakes aren't found above 9,000'
The Ranger informed the hiker that that particular rattlesnake obviously hadn't read the book.

He should have told her to keep climbing.

[Drew Wiley]

The highest rattler I've seen was around 8000 ft above Roaring River in Sequoia, on a dry slope. Two of them the same afternoon. They're lighter color and much more docile than the big Diamondbacks down in the foothills. Shooed it off the trail with my walking pole. Didn't want to get close enough to see if it was wearing reading glasses or not, or if it knew the rule book gives right of way to pedestrians.

[Wayne]

Here’s the cougar that was tracked and killed in the foothills near my Seattle home (2018).

213547

Days earlier, it attacked two thirty-something mountain bikers, killing one and severely injuring the other. The bikers did everything right, but sometimes that’s not enough. (They didn’t have bear spray, and that may have worked.)

BTW, one issue that needs repeating is how incredibly rare any kind of cougar attack is, even as sightings grow more common with rising population densities. We have about 2,500 cougars in Washington state, but the bicycler’s death was only the second fatal attack in 100 years. (And in all of North America, over 100 years, make that about 25 fatal attacks and 120 non-fatal ones.)

In all my time in Wash. state’s wilderness, Cascades and Olympics, I’ve never seen or heard a cougar, but I’ll venture to say that hundreds of cougars have probably seen me … from a scary-close distance.

They did everything right...except for what they did wrong. Like biking past the unseen lion (looking like running prey...joggers and bikers beware). And then the victim ran when the animal attacked the survivor. It came after him and killed him.

[Heroique]

They did everything right...except for what they did wrong. Like biking past the unseen lion (looking like running prey...joggers and bikers beware). And then the victim ran when the animal attacked the survivor. It came after him and killed him.

I’m not so sure riding mountain bikes on a road open for recreation near Seattle is taking on too much risk. As for your source, it sounds like it might be one of the day-after sensationalist accounts I remember being everywhere in the metro-Seattle media.

Here, for contrast, is the key part of a considered look of the incident by the Sierra Club:


While the pair initially scared off the lion using what Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) police say was correct behavior—yelling, standing their ground, and even hitting it with their bikes—it returned and attacked again, biting Sederbaum. Brooks fled, and the cougar released Sederbaum, who went for help, whereupon it returned to Brooks and killed him. “The cyclists realized they were being stalked and adjusted their behavior accordingly,” Earthwatch chief scientist Cristina Eisenberg says.

I keep thinking bear spray – but it sounds like this beautiful animal was a very rare, especially aggressive, take-no-prisoners cougar.

[Alan Klein]

Maybe you should carry a small pistol.

[Drew Wiley]

Why ??? I've lived, walked, and slept in cougar habitat for decades. So have countless generations. I've never even heard an Indian legend of a mtn lion killing someone. I'd be more worried about Homo sapiens.

[John Kasaian]

Legends about panther attacks have been passed down in other parts of the country though.
Regarding mountain lions, the only cougar attacks we hear about are the ones on the internet.
OTOH, should a mountain lion successfully enjoy it's brunch, who would ever know unless a corpus is found?


It's not all that rare the people go missing in the mountains and are never found. What happens to them?
Two legged and four legged attackers can be equally dangerous if you're unaware of your surroundings, just as the weather can be a killer.

Be careful, be prepared and stay alert.

[Vaughn]

Or in many of those cases, scavengers, or a 4-legged predator coming across an injured, dying, or dead treat.

[Drew Wiley]

John - pumas didn't get anything at the Donner Party. Guess they weren't invited.

[Drew Wiley]

Cats tend to be picky eaters, and cougars are known to steal from one another's fresh kills, and to feed on kills for several days. But they don't scavenge old rotten meat like wolves, coyotes, wolverines, ravens, and college students do.

[Alan Klein]

Cats tend to be picky eaters, and cougars are known to steal from one another's fresh kills, and to feed on kills for several days. But they don't scavenge old rotten meat like wolves, coyotes, wolverines, ravens, and college students do.

Hmmm. I'm not sure, Drew, if that makes me feel more secure or less. :confused:

[Alan Klein]

When my little 15 pound mini poodle was alive, we'd go out hiking and "Geocaching" a lot in the woods north of NYC up into the Catskills.. I'd take him off the leash and he'd often get ahead of me exploring. I wasn't worried about Pumas, as there aren't any here in the East. But there are coyote and wild dogs and other tough critters who would make mincemeat of him. Then I'd have to worry about my wife who would kill me quicker than a Puma for not watching him close enough. Fortunately, we never did run into these animals - that I saw anyway.

[John Kasaian]

Or in many of those cases, scavengers, or a 4-legged predator coming across an injured, dying, or dead treat.

Or they embezzled company funds
https://i.gifer.com/ERYt.gif

[John Kasaian]

John - pumas didn't get anything at the Donner Party. Guess they weren't invited.

Interesting though.
I thought big cats hibernated, but apparently not.
I thought bears hibernated too, but...

https://youtu.be/KWpFxGAHRvw

[jmdavis]

Can we go back to the Chardonay?

[Bernice Loui]

Mountain Lions are part of life in the Coastside community. We live with them, they live with us. Due to the mass devastation from recent fires and more mountain kitties that have survived have been forced into areas they usually stay away from in their search for eats and living. IMO, mountain kitties are not much of an issue as they tend to stay away from humaniods unless they are threatened and provoked in some way.
http://www.santacruzpumas.org/puma-tracker/

HMB coastside community was truly upset and more than dis-pleased with the local cops gunning down mountain kitties..
https://www.hmbreview.com/news/hmb-residents-outraged-over-cougar-shootings/article_34c82fa2-4012-11e2-90e7-001a4bcf887a.html

Most long time coastside residents more than accept mountain kitties as part of the community and need to be protected from fear driven folks that want them exterminated. They are part of the entire eco-system which included Raptors, Wolves, Foxes, Owls, Deer, Skunks, Opossums, Rats, Mice, Gophers and countless 6 & 8 legged critters and plants.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

What has notably changed is how cougars' attitudes towards dogs have changed. I remember when they were so terrified of barking that even a poodle could tree them. Now, more and more, they view isolated dogs as dinner. But if there are plenty of deer around, that's what they instinctively prefer. The highly animated twitchiness of goats, however, has always magnetized them in a manner domestic sheep do not. In certain areas, they specialize in wild bighorn sheep instead of deer.

[John Kasaian]

In Placerville a few years back, a client had a cougar rip open a heavy gauge steel mesh kennel one night to feast on his unfortunate dog.
A rare attack for sure, but I doubt if that was any comfort to the dog.
I saw what the cougar had done to the kennel
Crazy.

[Drew Wiley]

I keep all my own wannabee little cougars well fed; but sometimes they give me the evil eye if I give them dry food when they want canned instead, or visa versa. This batch is so pampered that they haven't even learned to how to tear the cat food bag open. That certainly wasn't the case with an abandoned kitten I picked up wandering a backroad up in the hills - he was one smart little survivor and had already learned a lot of tricks. He'd even lie out on the street and bite pedestrians who didn't pause to pet him. He also attacked dogs and raccoons. Smartest, toughest cat if ever saw. His own cougar leaps were turbocharged with nearly lethal fishy smell farts. But his final mistake was attacking a moving Dodge Van for invading his territory. He's buried in the Valley of the Kings in a shoe box full of catnip, in that portion of the back yard adjacent to where my darkroom plumbing lines are buried.

[Alan Klein]

What has notably changed is how cougars' attitudes towards dogs have changed. I remember when they were so terrified of barking that even a poodle could tree them. Now, more and more, they view isolated dogs as dinner. But if there are plenty of deer around, that's what they instinctively prefer. The highly animated twitchiness of goats, however, has always magnetized them in a manner domestic sheep do not. In certain areas, they specialize in wild bighorn sheep instead of deer.

I can assure you that my poodle never treed a cougar although I would have loved to see that. :)

[John Kasaian]

I am allergic to all cats, but I have to admit there is something to be learned from the critters:

“Observe your cat. It is difficult to surprise him. Why? Naturally, his superior hearing is part of the answer, but not all of it. He moves well, using his senses fully. He is not preoccupied with irrelevancies. He’s not thinking about his job or his image or his income tax. He is putting first things first, principally his physical security. Do likewise.”
---Col. Jeff Cooper

[Drew Wiley]

.... he sleeps all day, barfs on the rug as soon as he does wake up, then tickles your nose in the middle of night with his whiskers when he wants you to play with him. The only kind of bird he ever ate came in a can, except for a helpless fledgling that landed on the lawn. He also messes up the whole pile of IRS paperwork whenever possible.

[Wayne]

I’m not so sure riding mountain bikes on a road open for recreation near Seattle is taking on too much risk. As for your source, it sounds like it might be one of the day-after sensationalist accounts I remember being everywhere in the metro-Seattle media.

Here, for contrast, is the key part of a considered look of the incident by the Sierra Club:


While the pair initially scared off the lion using what Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) police say was correct behavior—yelling, standing their ground, and even hitting it with their bikes—it returned and attacked again, biting Sederbaum. Brooks fled, and the cougar released Sederbaum, who went for help, whereupon it returned to Brooks and killed him. “The cyclists realized they were being stalked and adjusted their behavior accordingly,” Earthwatch chief scientist Cristina Eisenberg says.

I keep thinking bear spray – but it sounds like this beautiful animal was a very rare, especially aggressive, take-no-prisoners cougar.


Says it right there.."Brooks fled...and it returned to Brooks and killed him". Never run from a cat. Or "flee" as the case may be.

[Mark Sawyer]

When hiking in the woods, always carry a laser pointer to distract the cougars...

[Heroique]

Says it right there.."Brooks fled...and it returned to Brooks and killed him". Never run from a cat. Or "flee" as the case may be.

There's truth in what you say, but the Sierra Club’s finding is both men would likely have been killed by continuing with the rules. And remember, Sederbaum was saved by the fleeing.

[Drew Wiley]

Most Sierra Clubbers these days wouldn't know the difference between a cougar and a Shetland pony. I'll bet a cougar would rein in its chase instinct if I waved the spike end of a Ries tripod at it. But the whole point is, not to stir up that instinct in the first place. Those guys were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not their fault for being ignorant how to best handle a sudden panic situation. Call it a freak accident if you like, certainly a tragedy, but so rare an occurrence that it barely puts a blip on the statistics.

It wasn't that long ago that a hiker in Olympic NP was killed by a mountain goat on a popular trail. That too was a statistical anomaly, but differed in being entirely preventable. Billy goats can be territorial and belligerent, and that particular one was known to stand its ground and not cede the trail. There was ample opportunity, apparently, to either detour or back off before a confrontation.

[reddesert]

I saw a mountain lion once while mountain biking (in the state park next to UCSC, where deer are common and lions are present). It avoided me. Actually I barely saw the lion at first, I just noticed that something moved off the double-track ahead of me. After I passed some distance, I happened to stop and turn around and saw the lion re-emerge from the bushes and cross the track.

I've never seen a road lion while road biking, but given the decreasing quality of people's driving I consider that significantly riskier.

Lion attacks are extremely rare and may involve a sick or weakened animal that has not been able to hunt its natural prey, or a juvenile.

[Vaughn]

Memo to self -- sharpen Ries spikes...right now the lion might die of laughter.

[Alan Klein]

There's truth in what you say, but the Sierra Club’s finding is both men would likely have been killed by continuing with the rules. And remember, Sederbaum was saved by the fleeing.

What's the expression? Always go hiking with someone who runs slower than you.

[John Kasaian]

I saw a mountain lion once while mountain biking (in the state park next to UCSC, where deer are common and lions are present). It avoided me. Actually I barely saw the lion at first, I just noticed that something moved off the double-track ahead of me. After I passed some distance, I happened to stop and turn around and saw the lion re-emerge from the bushes and cross the track.

I've never seen a road lion while road biking, but given the decreasing quality of people's driving I consider that significantly riskier.

Lion attacks are extremely rare and may involve a sick or weakened animal that has not been able to hunt its natural prey, or a juvenile.

My B-I-L saw a mountain lion cross the road while his was on a bike ride in the foothills. i think it was two years ago.

[jdurr]

213678

Meet Silas. I had him for a few weeks. Just like a BIG kitty cat!

[Heroique]

Meet Silas. I had him for a few weeks. Just like a BIG kitty cat!

It might be wise to say why you kept Silas from the wilderness.

It looks like he’s dreaming to be there.

[Wayne]

There's truth in what you say, but the Sierra Club’s finding is both men would likely have been killed by continuing with the rules. And remember, Sederbaum was saved by the fleeing.


Don't much care what the Sierra Club says...I haven't worked with mt lions but have worked with other large mammals and in those same mountains for many years and can only say I disagree. Biking/running in large predator habitat is asking for trouble (but we assume we're entitled, as humans, to do as we please), and running/fleeing from a cat is a mistake. Its possible someone might have been killed anyway but much less likely if both stood their ground and fought to the death, especially since death happened anyway and it may have prevented it.

[Heroique]

I haven't worked with mt lions but have worked with other large mammals and in those same mountains for many years and can only say I disagree.

I think the opinion has some degree of merit, but I think I’ll agree with the Sierra Club, the Wash. state Dept. of Fish and Wildlife, and Earthwatch scientists: these two men acted correctly from start to finish, dealing with an unusual situation where the rules had broken down.

BTW, what large mammals were you working with, and in which part of the N. Cascades? Very interesting.

[Drew Wiley]

In this case, with two people involved, there was an element of distraction. But there is simply no way to out-sprint either a cougar or a bear. If they want to catch you, you'd be the slowest species around.

This year is a bit unusual due to more people being out and during the week on the trails than usual (versus weekends), due to pandemic issues. In more normal years critters are bolder to be out and about up in the hills around here mid-week because relatively few people are around; so that is the best time for potential cougar sightings. But so far, I haven't personally spotted any in this area. Others have. And these coastal cougars are rather small, just like the blacktail deer they hunt, so that's another factor making them inconspicuous. Their relative abundance is made apparent by IR-triggered trail wildlife cameras, which routinely capture shots of them at night. Bobcats, however, don't seem to mind being spotted by humans. They haven't been trapped or hunted in this state for a long time, and frankly, are an important factor in ranching and farmland rodent control, just like coyotes. Bobcats also thin out the population explosion of wild turkeys somewhat, and perhaps cougars take a few too.

[Heroique]

In this case, with two people involved, there was an element of distraction. But there is simply no way to out-sprint either a cougar or a bear. If they want to catch you, you'd be the slowest species around.
I’d say the two bicyclists would agree with you, even if “cougars are faster” probably had nothing to do with their final-option behavior. While their behavior was correct according to the wildlife specialists above, I’m sure they’d add that other choices would be correct too. There’s just no perfect answer here.


I haven't worked with mt lions but have worked with other large mammals and in those same mountains for many years and can only say I disagree.
It just occurred to me that “working with large mammals” in the N. Cascades most likely means you’re not an ecologist or natural scientist, but a big-game hunter with a license, right? If so, I hope you can continue to share your experiences as an informative point of contrast. For it’s also helpful to know how large animals behave toward humans when they’re dying, severely wounded, being tracked, or made to feel deep distress.

[Drew Wiley]

Ironically, although the distraction due to a second person might have been what saved the other, it's also entirely possible the confusion involved is what set off a violent frustration reaction in the cat in the first place. Hard to know exactly what the cougar was thinking. It probably wasn't contemplating either of them as a potential meal at all. More likely, it was inexperienced, and was suddenly confronted with an unfamiliar situation that triggered some kind of strong emotion. Even ordinary house cats can throw a scratch or bite when frustrated over an unwelcome sudden choice. The difference is the size of the teeth and claws. Maybe the same cougar would have ignored a single trail biker. Maybe it was unfamiliar with bikes in general, and enticed by the whirring shiny wheels.

[Wayne]

I think the opinion has some degree of merit, but I think I’ll agree with the Sierra Club, the Wash. state Dept. of Fish and Wildlife, and Earthwatch scientists: these two men acted correctly from start to finish, dealing with an unusual situation where the rules had broken down.

BTW, what large mammals were you working with, and in which part of the N. Cascades? Very interesting.

I'm not sure when the Sierra Club became an expert on these things. I would certainly never seek them out for their opinion on how to behave around cougars, but I suppose to the unwashed masses they would be considered experts.

I guess it would depend on who from WDFW said what. I missed or glossed over their comments. Care to repost? They have some good knowledgeable people and some other good people who overextend their expertise. If it came from their PR department they were probably just trying to make the survivor and the victim's family not feel too bad. Also, a publicly funded agency in a rabidly me-me-me country is never going to say "you shouldn't have been doing what you were doing where you were doing it."

Lets put it this way, two guys got attacked and one is dead. You can go on believing they did all the right things if you want, but how did that end for them? I take a different view that I think would have ended in a different outcome, if not prevented the encounter entirely. I don't claim to be an expert that anyone else should follow, I just know what I would have done and wouldn't have done and its based on my own extensive reading and decades in the field. I'm only my own "expert" and recommend that everybody become their own best expert.

The only large mammal I worked with in the North Cascades were elk, but I did plenty of other work with other species there. In other areas I've worked hands-on with wolves, deer and bear. But that's irrelevant, one need not do any of that in order to learn how to behave in the wilds. I learned more from careful reading than from actual encounters. I've encountered many bear and a few wolves and all ended rather boringly with them running away.



It just occurred to me that “working with large mammals” in the N. Cascades most likely means you’re not an ecologist or natural scientist, but a big-game hunter with a license, right? If so, I hope you can continue to share your experiences as an informative point of contrast. For it’s also helpful to know how large animals behave toward humans when they’re dying, severely wounded, being tracked, or made to feel deep distress.

I don't hunt, but I'll eat it if you kill it.

[LabRat]

Animals can also be unpredictable...

An older worldly lady told me of when she was in her "Hollywood" period, where she was out in the desert near Palm Springs, as a passenger on the back of a motorcycle putting along, when a large mountain lion started chasing them... They hit the gas, but at 25, 35, 45mph, the big cat kept up nicely... Seemed more interested in the bike... Got it up to 60mph when the cat finally broke off the chase...

They later figured the cat was not on the hunt, but instead mesmerized by the spinning wheels of the bike, and kept up to watch...

Steve K

[Alan Klein]

In this case, with two people involved, there was an element of distraction. But there is simply no way to out-sprint either a cougar or a bear. If they want to catch you, you'd be the slowest species around.

This year is a bit unusual due to more people being out and during the week on the trails than usual (versus weekends), due to pandemic issues. In more normal years critters are bolder to be out and about up in the hills around here mid-week because relatively few people are around; so that is the best time for potential cougar sightings. But so far, I haven't personally spotted any in this area. Others have. And these coastal cougars are rather small, just like the blacktail deer they hunt, so that's another factor making them inconspicuous. Their relative abundance is made apparent by IR-triggered trail wildlife cameras, which routinely capture shots of them at night. Bobcats, however, don't seem to mind being spotted by humans. They haven't been trapped or hunted in this state for a long time, and frankly, are an important factor in ranching and farmland rodent control, just like coyotes. Bobcats also thin out the population explosion of wild turkeys somewhat, and perhaps cougars take a few too.

My predation has taken out a few turkeys too.

[jnantz]

I am very dissappointed, I mean you are going through all that trouble make a that video
it should have ended with good mauling

[Vaughn]

I am very dissappointed, I mean you are going through all that trouble make a that video
it should have ended with good mauling

I find many of the videos I see these days are the same way. A lot like SciFi writing in the 60s and 70s. Some great ideas, but no follow through. Weak endings.


edit for spelling correction -- misspelled 'writing' when complaining about writers...:rolleyes:

[John Kasaian]

Animals can also be unpredictable...

An older worldly lady told me of when she was in her "Hollywood" period, where she was out in the desert near Palm Springs, as a passenger on the back of a motorcycle putting along, when a large mountain lion started chasing them... They hit the gas, but at 25, 35, 45mph, the big cat kept up nicely... Seemed more interested in the bike... Got it up to 60mph when the cat finally broke off the chase...

They later figured the cat was not on the hunt, but instead mesmerized by the spinning wheels of the bike, and kept up to watch...

Steve K

What was she smoking in her "Hollywood" period?

[Heroique]

I am very disappointed, I mean you are going through all that trouble to make that video, it should have ended with good mauling.

I’m no critic, but I thought the movie was entertaining – quite suspenseful, and a great ending!

A cute kitten to start, then good girl teaches bad guy a lesson – and no one gets hurt.

I even heard people in their seats yelling “Idiot!” and “You go, girl!”

At movie’s end, a cougar darting away into the sunset is a beautiful sight. :D

[LabRat]

What was she smoking in her "Hollywood" period?

50's???

Steve K

[Drew Wiley]

If you want it all, watch the Tim Treadwell "Grizzly Man" flick. He did it all - studied the grizzlies up close, filmed his encounters, even invited one to an official retirement dinner. You need a gregarious species like the grizzly if you want to share tent hospitality. Mountain lions are simply too shy or aloof, whatever.

Cougars can indeed run very fast on a sprint (up to 50mph), but just like their closest cousin the cheetah, only briefly. Their lung capacity simply isn't suiited for extended running like wolves and wild dogs, or horses. Besides, who need a cougar attack if you already own a motorcycle - a machine which routinely kills far more people than cougars ever have.

[Vaughn]

But generally a motorcycle usually only kills once.

[John Kasaian]

Do cougars play dress up?
There are these guys to watch out for in Big Sur---
https://nonur.com/2021/03/16/dark-watchers-have-been-spooking-california-hikers-for-centuries-what-are-they-live-science/

[Drew Wiley]

Well, after the rain so far this week, I might get a break to spot some more fresh prints in the mud before the next big storm arrives. Yes, they're out there either watching or more likely napping. Cougars potentially hunt during daytime, but prefer the extra stealth night provides. The beginning of the tom turkeys showing off, trying to impress the hens and compete with one another using the sheer vanity of tail feather fan displays, has already begun; so it's also logically the time for both wild turkey photography or mountain lions more easily catching them. I just missed a lion sighting a couple years ago in such an opportune situation, but a couple hiking lower down on the same trail did see it slink away into the brush. Coyotes are also more nonchalant this time of year than usual. The particular coyote who has now bitten six people in a local shopping center was just trapped an euthanized; DNA tests confirm only a single coyote was involved in all those incidents.

[BKP]

Interesting reading all the comments. I think that the hiker did the right thing. Lowering your profile height to pick up rocks has its own risks. If you have a lot of confidence in your aim, well ...
One of my neighbors "Dave Parker" managed to kill the attacking cougar with his folding knife while the cat was ripping his face off. He lost an eye. It was written up in Reader's Digest a few years back. Another incident involved a wounded cougar attacking a bicyclist in the evening, luckily a fellow working late happened by. He too would have been a goner. Can you imagine Dave having the presence of mind to reach up behind his head and cutting multiple cuts on the cougar's throat all while feeling his claws ripping your flesh. Luckily there was a Dryland log sorting operation nearby whose first aid attendant hadn't left yet. Around here most hikers carry a long walking stick with a nail driven into one end and the head removed and sharpened. And then there a those people like Brian Hawthorne who carefully, quietly snuck up on a cougar who was ready to pounce on a child at a logger's picnic. Brian kicked the cougar in his privates, which gave him a new agenda.

[Drew Wiley]

Seems like everyone now uses pointy trekking sticks; they sure take stress of the knees going downhill. But back in the 70's, pointy ski poles during the summer became a local custom when the Trailside Killer was still on the loose, and people would only travel in groups. No cougar is anywhere near that dangerous.

[Graham Patterson]

I don't think I'll try sneaking up on a mountain lion around here. If I was very lucky the cat would die laughing before it got me...

I used to work in the Berkeley Hills, and we received regular updates on where the last mountain lion meal was - which made early morning or evening walks to the car more interesting. I startled a few deer, but no cat...I don't think.

[John Kasaian]

I don't think I'll try sneaking up on a mountain lion around here. If I was very lucky the cat would die laughing before it got me...
.

Humor employed to deescalate a potentially dangerous situation is always a valid alternative. LOL!

[Tin Can]

Had a bear wandering locally at a Park area, last week

Fools rushed to get close

[Bernice Loui]

Mountain lions live in our "hood. Not an issue, they do what they do, we do what we do. Encounters remain rare and non-confrontational.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Mountain-lion-San-Mateo-County-Parks-Sawyer-Trail-16255313.php

They have been here long before we were and need their place to live and do their thing.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

I've already posted before how I deliberately got mtn lions to track me in order to get a close look at them. But I was accompanied by another person (a wildlife expert, in fact), and we were both armed. Beautiful animals, and I never needed to shoot at one. They were just curious, and that was how the whole game worked. No, don't run from one! - that just switches on their chase instinct instead.

[Alan Klein]

I've already posted before how I deliberately got mtn lions to track me in order to get a close look at them. But I was accompanied by another person (a wildlife expert, in fact), and we were both armed. Beautiful animals, and I never needed to shoot at one. They were just curious, and that was how the whole game worked. No, don't run from one! - that just switches on their chase instinct instead.

I once went for walk in NYC Central Park. At night. Not a smart thing to do, normally. But there were a few of us and one was an armed city cop dressed in civilian clothes. I was wondering at the time how any muggers would know he was an armed cop? How did the cougars know about your friend, the armed, wildlife expert?

[Vaughn]

Had a bear wandering locally at a Park area, last week

Fools rushed to get close

Saw the classic bear/tourist traffic jam in Yosemite while I had the 11x14 set up along the road last Thursday. On a big curve of the road, of course...a tourist stopped in the lane with flashers going. I had to warn vehicles approaching the curve to slow down. I messed up my last sheet of 11x14...distracted and forgot to close the dang lens before pulling the darkslide...oh, well, another ten bucks. Might give the image another go in the fall.

Alan -- I imagine that the cougars (and muggers) know us quite well. It is up to us to learn about them. :cool:

[Greg]

Here in Connecticut we have Mountain Lions. Sightings are very rare. Confrontations with humans pretty much unheard of. Confrontations with pets unconfirmed but probable. One of my trail cams captured one one night last year. At first it looked like a domestic cat, but then we noticed its size, and domestic cats don't grow that large. A while back a friend was walking her dog on the-rails-to-trails and all of a sudden her dog froze in his tracks. She heard a "hissing" behind a dense bush, and they both backtracked without turning around. Bears are the worst trouble makers... Recently one killed several hens and a goat and just left the dead bodies. Another one got himself into a car and the door slammed shut... the Bear completely trashed the inside of the car before exiting through a smashed windshield.

[Keith Fleming]

My late wife reported hearing a scream from what she thought was a cougar out behind the house. After she died, I heard the same thing one summer evening. But the bird identification book says that fledgling Great Horned Owls also scream for food from the parents. For some reason, what I heard did sound somewhat owlish, so I suspect that is what I heard. Can anyone comment on whether some reports of cougars screaming might just be Great Horned Owl fledglings?
Keith

[Drew Wiley]

Alan. It made no difference to the cougars if we were armed or not. They followed us due to curiosity. And in this case "curiosity didn't kill the cat." They took extreme care not to be noticed, but we had set up a tag team system to fool them. Once they figured out they'd been made, they instantly ran off back into the woods. Cougars are instinctively very shy of people, even when routinely around people. But a few of them are learning how to suburbanize themselves, just like coyotes and raccoons and skunks and so forth. There are plenty of deer inside city limits too. Humans aren't viewed as food. Remember, they've had at least fifteen thousands of years in the Western Hemisphere of cumulative experience and genetic adaptation to the fact that the most aggressive and successful species of predator is actually us. They have good reason to be more afraid of us than we are of them.

[BKP]

Here in B.C. we had bounty on cougars in the fifties and sixties. Seeing one after that was rare except in higher elevations. There are many on south-eastern B.C. and Vancouver Island. Every summer in the village where I reside, there are and will be cougars and black bears roaming around town in the evening/night. We tend to not report the bears but definitely the cougars. The cougars will take domestic cats, small dogs, chickens etc. The bears are after fruit trees and berries. One hiker that know, often shares the blackberry bush with the bear, they are five feet apart but out of sight to each other. Both aware of each other's presence. One elderly lady regularly chases out the bear from her garden with a corn broom to his butt. It must be a game to the bear, he's back the next day. The Conservation Officer traps them, tags them relocates them and then they're back. If they are still around in late September then they are "made an offer they can't refuse" And next year same situation different bear. Cougars have been known to over night in peoples gardens but they are usually "outed" by the dog community. Grizzly bears have recently (within last ten years) been sighted on the Island. They swim from the mainland, "island hopping." Not looking forward to meeting one of them. Stay safe. When in bear country I carry an empty beer can with a small stone in it and rattle it. I can tell by tracks in mud and droppings that it works very well.

[Alan Klein]

Alan. It made no difference to the cougars if we were armed or not. They followed us due to curiosity. And in this case "curiosity didn't kill the cat." They took extreme care not to be noticed, but we had set up a tag team system to fool them. Once they figured out they'd been made, they instantly ran off back into the woods. Cougars are instinctively very shy of people, even when routinely around people. But a few of them are learning how to suburbanize themselves, just like coyotes and raccoons and skunks and so forth. There are plenty of deer inside city limits too. Humans aren't viewed as food. Remember, they've had at least fifteen thousands of years in the Western Hemisphere of cumulative experience and genetic adaptation to the fact that the most aggressive and successful species of predator is actually us. They have good reason to be more afraid of us than we are of them.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of cougars in Manhattan.
https://beyondages.com/locations-for-cougars-in-new-york/

[Drew Wiley]

Craziest cougar story of em all so far, from last nite's local news broadcast. Across the Bay yesterday, a mountain lion broke into an occupied home by shattering the glass patio door. It turns out that what it saw through that door was the trophy room, with all kinds of big games heads mounted on the walls - antlered deer, elk, bighorn sheep etc.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Believe it or not, there are plenty of cougars in Manhattan.
https://beyondages.com/locations-for-cougars-in-new-york/


Sadly, those ones only prey on young males...:rolleyes:

[Vaughn]

Sadly, those ones only prey on young males...:rolleyes:

Is that 'prey' or 'pray'? :cool: