Focusing aids for Chamonix 4x5 cameras

[Kornscharfsteller]

I am about to buy my first large format camera. It is going to be either the Chamonix C45F-2 or C45H-1 (I am still undecided, I will kindly ask for your help on this topic too in another post (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?162589-Chamonix-C45F-2-vs-C45H-1)).

JOBO (https://www.jobo.com/en/chamonix/), the German Chamonix reseller offers many different focusing aids made by Chamonix. I will for sure get a classic dark cloth (not offered by Chamonix) and I already got the Chamonix-JOBO „artisan“ focusing loupe (https://www.jobo.com/en/chamonix/clup05-5x-lupe).
Now my question is which of those other focusing aides should I get? What are the applications, ideal situation, advantages/disadvantage of each of those different things?

1. CV45F (https://www.jobo.com/chamonix/cvf45f-viewfinder-4x5?ecms_lang=EN) Viewfinder 4x5”
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2. CV45FC (https://www.jobo.com/chamonix/cvf45fc-viewfinder-4x5-carbon?ecms_lang=EN) Viewfinder 4x5” - carbon
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3. CV45RX (https://www.jobo.com/chamonix/cvf45rx-reflex-viewfinder-?ecms_lang=EN) Reflex-Viewfinder
213187

[Keith Pitman]

To start out, just use the loupe and darkcloth. You can consider these later when you have some experience with the camera.

[Tin Can]

Most 'aids' do not work with my crappy eyes

I found a loupe that works for ME which is now unavailable

I have tried them all

[David Schaller]

To start out, just use the loupe and darkcloth. You can consider these later when you have some experience with the camera.

What Keith said. +1 The best focusing aid is practice, practice, practice.

[Alan Klein]

I started 4x5 photography last year and bought a Chamonix 45H-1. I don't like viewing upside down. So I bought the reflex viewfinder. It works better on long lenses, such as my 300mm. It's hard to see the sides of the ground glass with wider angle lenses like my 90mm and 75mm. I use it to set up the shot, sometimes. Then I switch to dark cloth for precise focusing.

Same is true with the #2 viewfinder which I also have. One thing about this, is you can leave it on the camera for protecting the ground glass instead of using the protector that comes with the camera. So it doesn't take up any more room in your bag. But you have to remove to use a dark cloth. You can't use it with a loupe unless the loupe is long enough.

I'd get the camera first as others have said and use a dark cloth. Get familiar with the camera first before deciding how to move forward. You may find a dark cloth is fine.

I'll tell you about the camera on your other thread.

[Alan Klein]

I couldn't find your thread for cameras in general so I'll comment here. I have the 45H-1 for about a year. It was recommended to me by Chamonix over the F2 since I don't hike and don't need to fold the whole camera up every time I put it away. When I'm out photographing, I keep it in a camera bag in my car and then carry the whole thing not more than 100 meters. You can leave the lens on the camera and just put the whole thing away right off the tripod into your camera bag. You do not need to assemble or disassemble. The F2 you can fold down to a smaller size for taking up less room in a hiking bag. But you have to set up a couple of things each time.

I like the H-1 except for one thing - the way it focuses. You focus with one hand but need the other hand to tighten the movement so it doesn't drift. That makes it hard to use your loupe. There is a way of compensating. You tighten it first with just a little slack. Then focus. But I find it inconvenient. Apparently, the F2 has a single focus knob so you don't have that issue. They should change the way the H-1 focuses.

If you have any questions, contact Chamonix representative in the USA - hugo zhang <hugoz_2000@yahoo.com>

[sharktooth]

We should clarify that there is a difference between a "focusing aid" and a "composing aid".

A focusing aid is something that enables you to achieve fine focus. These are primarily loupes.

A composing aid will help you view the full image on the ground glass. These are dark cloths, viewing shields, reflex mirror boxes, and fresnel screens.

Other than dark cloths and fresnel screens, all the other conventional composing aids don't work easily with loupes.

As with everything, there's no free lunch, or perfect solution.

[m00dawg]

I have the middle one 45FC I use with my Chammy 45F2. The main reason I like it is that it's a much better ground glass protector. It's easier to install and remove. It's function as a hood is merely ok. Sometimes it works great but when it's very bright outside I usually will remove it for critical focusing. Where it is useful is as an initial composition check without having to break out the dark cloth. So I do recommend it, but do you need it day 1? Nah. I bought mine after I got my 45F2 when I ordered some Chamonix 4x5 holders (which as wonderful, by the way).

I'm really a huge fan of Chamonix. I have my eye on their 8x10V but oof it's out of reach for me at the moment.

[robphoto]

If you're having trouble seeing the sides of the image with the reflex viewfinder, do you have a fresnel on the ground glass? I use one of the plastic fresnels which are sold on Amazon, etc. as reading magnifiers, that I cut with a knife to fit over the ground glass. It helps a lot in seeing the whole image at once. You can buy fresnels made specifically for camera use, with better attachments rather than some tape.

[Kevin Crisp]

Another vote for a loupe (doesn't have to be an expensive one) and a dark cloth. You quickly get used to the upside down image. I'm not sure if you gave me a choice of having it right side up these days I'd take it. I have grown accustomed to it upside down and like it that way.

[Kiwi7475]

This is not Stranger Things. Get used to the upside down, don’t resist it. After 30-50 shots (depending on the person), it will be second nature. You may even start printing upside down! ;-)

[Kornscharfsteller]

One thing about this, is you can leave it on the camera for protecting the ground glass instead of using the protector that comes with the camera. So it doesn't take up any more room in your bag.
When I look at the picture of viewfinder #2, I can see a metal spring that seems to touch the ground glas when collapsed. This may not be a problem at first, but I will hike and backpack a lot with that camera and I may pack tightly. When I do this frequently over a longer period of time I fear that the metal spring will hurt the ground glass. What do you think?

[Kornscharfsteller]

You can't use it with a loupe unless the loupe is long enough.
Chamonix makes a carbon loupe which is quite long, I linked to it in the original post and I own it. I wonder wether it is long enough for the viewfinder #2.

[Kornscharfsteller]

The main reason I like it is that it's a much better ground glass protector

Do you think there is a chance that the metal spring that can be seen in the picture will eventually hurt the ground glas? It seems like it would touch the ground glass when the viewfinder is collapsed.

[grat]

When I look at the picture of viewfinder #2, I can see a metal spring that seems to touch the ground glas when collapsed. This may not be a problem at first, but I will hike and backpack a lot with that camera and I may pack tightly. When I do this frequently over a longer period of time I fear that the metal spring will hurt the ground glass. What do you think?

The spring doesn't rub against the glass. It's attached to the "outside" of the cover, rather than the inside.

Further, on the Chamonix, that's a protective piece of glass, rather than the actual ground glass.

[m00dawg]

Yeah just responding to acknowledge the question but basically what grat said. I haven't had any problems with that metal spring. I haven't done true backpacking with the 45F2 yet. I did that on my Intrepid Mk2 (and still might opt for an Intrepid for hardcore backpacking if I ever do that again). I keep my 45 in a...uhh...crap. I think a Lowepro camera backpack for most normal walking around. Works well for me. I haven't packed it in a hiking pack yet (haven't had the need) but I do like that the 45F2 comes with a nice padded pouch.

[Alan Klein]

When I look at the picture of viewfinder #2, I can see a metal spring that seems to touch the ground glas when collapsed. This may not be a problem at first, but I will hike and backpack a lot with that camera and I may pack tightly. When I do this frequently over a longer period of time I fear that the metal spring will hurt the ground glass. What do you think?

If it's a problem, you can always use the protective ground glass cover that comes with the camera.

[Kornscharfsteller]

The spring doesn't rub against the glass. It's attached to the "outside" of the cover, rather than the inside.
It clearly looks like the spring is on the inside in the above picture. Did they assemble it wrong or maybe they changed it and you use a different version?

[otto.f]

Reflex finder to compose and dark cloth to finetune. I own the carbon covered flexible viewer but I don’t use it because my 10x loupe is rather short and I can’t come in with that. I have the F2 btw, very happy.

[Doremus Scudder]

I'll add my two-cents worth of advice here too.

Do try and use the camera as-is, i.e., without any focusing aids at all except a loupe and maybe some reading glasses if you need them and try to get used to it. Really, most of us adapt quickly and find the inverted image actually aids in composition at times by adding an element of abstraction.

If you find you do well without any aids, then you've saved your self money an will save yourself a lot of trouble packing and carrying around an extra piece of gear as well as the time and trouble fiddling around with it to mount and dismount it, etc.

If you find, after giving the inverted image a fair chance, that you still would like a focusing aid, you can always get one then. I'll bet you end up without one.

Best,

Doremus

[Kornscharfsteller]

And here is the post where I ask about the cameras Chamonix C45F-2 vs. C45H-2 (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?162589-Chamonix-C45F-2-vs-C45H-1)

[grat]

It clearly looks like the spring is on the inside in the above picture. Did they assemble it wrong or maybe they changed it and you use a different version?

In that picture, the unit is on it's side, so the "bottom" flap, which is on the right, folds in first. Then the sides, then the top flap which has the spring. It is exactly identical to the unit I have on my camera. The spring acts against the carbon fiber cover, which is on the outside of the frame from the camera.

[photobymike]

To start out, just use the loupe and darkcloth. You can consider these later when you have some experience with the camera.

loupe and cloth but mainly a good loupe...I use a Rodenstock 4x I really like. don't use more than a 6x because it is to much ... sometimes I use reading magnifiers glasses from Walmart .... works well with a Graflex with a hood