Dark cloth

[Kornscharfsteller]

Hello,

I am about to get into large format photography and to buy my first camera, a Chamonix C45F-2 or C45H-1 (I am still undecided). This is also my first post here in this forum.

I am looking for a „matching“ dark cloth for the above cameras.
What are good/important properties of a dark cloth? Can it be attached to the camera?
It thought it might be cool to maybe have one side of that cloth a bit water repellent so in case of a sudden rain shower or something I could use it to quickly protect the camera. Also I though it might be a good idea to have that side to be of a material that protects me a bit from direct sunlight, if it was fully black, I‘d figure it might get hot under there very quickly.
Do you have any tips for me?
Also: Who makes them and where can I get them?
My wife is a very good needlewoman, I could also let her make one for me if she knew how.

[Oslolens]

Here is some alternatives, first what seems to be not water repellent https://viewcamerastore.com/collections/btzs-focus-hoods/products/4x5-btzs-focus-hood-dark-cloth then my Harrison. For me, this is too spacious and too heavy, so I use a black t-shirt.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/446774-REG/Harrison_2035_Silver_Classic_Dark_Cloth.html

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[GRAYnomad]

As I always carry a change bag anyway I've just used that for years. However of late I've been thinking about buying a Harrison.

I've never been keen on the idea of an elastic fit around the camera, and the Harrison seems to allow a simple velcro connection if you want to enclose the back.

[Kornscharfsteller]

To use the changing bag is a cool idea, mine is silver on both sides though, but it will work anyway I guess.

The Harrison dark cloth looks nice. Does this company (Harrison) have an official website somewhere? The seem to make more interesting products.

[GRAYnomad]

They are for sale in all the usual places but I can't find an actual Harrison web site.

Ben Horne does a comparo between one and the BTZS cloth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbEsE06g0oM&t=1s

That's what decided me on the Harrison...if I buy one at all that is.

[Conrad . Marvin]

I have used a Harrison dark cloth that I have used for years. It is silver on one side and black on the other and the Velcro makes it easy to use.
I think that the website is Camera Essentials. Do it.

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

I guess I'm finnicky. I tried a bunch of those things, and didn't like them. The one that stuck... comes from:https://www.wandererphotogear.com/

I use one of their ultralights BECAUSE it folds up into the size of a small 35mm format lens case, fits in the palm of my hand, and is just a pleasure to deal with, get out of the way, put in place, etc. Ain't the cheapest out there, but the light weight works and as a sailor, sail cloth ain't cheap either. For a Chamonix, a REGULAR size does fine. Mine is blue on the outside, black on the inside. Well made. I started with a heavier weight, but the light weight works fine inside and out. They also make cases for your film holders, but I use Dan Stone's (Stone Photo Gear for that) and love his new tripple 4X5.

A word on the Chamonix: I'm not sure whether the H models have more control over the displacement of the standards or not (looks like they do), but FWIW, I bought the F2 and kind of wish I'd bought the H model instead. I think there is more control with this model although it's billed as better for wide angle lenses. There's less extension with the H model (350 vs. 395mm), but you have the option of using wider backs - either 5X7 or 4X10, and this opens some sweet options unavailable on the F2. Either way, enjoy!

[Tin Can]

Many here use a T shirt

[Robin H.]

The company that makes the Harrison dark cloth is https://cameraessentials.com. I'm going to assume you're German based on your username, so it might be convenient for you to buy them
from https://www.prisma.film/ or https://mbfshop.de/

I personally own the medium size but the small one seems more than adequate for a 4x5 camera. What's nice is that the silver side is completely waterproof, and the black side is made of a lint-free fabric so no worries about fibers getting everywhere.

[Alan9940]

Welcome to the forums!

There are many choices available for a "real" dark cloth; many use their jacket, shirt, etc. I have a few commercial ones that I bought over the years, but some years ago I had my wife make me a few to specific sizes and out of lighter weight material. Some photographers like a dark cloth that has velcro or cinch cords allowing the cloth to attach onto the rear standard. Personally, I like the standard drape-style cloth that I can remove or throw over most of the camera when shooting in very bright conditions. The dark cloths my wife custom made are black on the inside, white on the outside, and have small drapery weights in each corner. The white side helps keep you a little cooler in sunlight, while the weights help in windy conditions.

[Ulophot]

For years I used a plain piece of blackish fabric, medium weight. The better part of my 4x5 work was indoors; the cloth was adequate. When I returned to 4x5 several years ago, I bought two 1.3-yard lengths of ripstop nylon from the fabric store, one black, one white. My wife sewed them together for me. Outdoors, a fair amount of light came through, and the slipperiness of the cloth plus static led me to relegate it to some other potential use, maybe reflector and light-subtraction for my portraiture.

Nearly three years ago, at a 4x5 meetup, one fellow was using a black T-shirt -- head in the neck hole and the shirt pulled up over for use, and retracted to "collaring" when not. I went out and bought an extra large black T and have used it since. Neither elegant, nor cool in the sun, nor as efficient as some in blocking light, not water resistant (though I could get some 3M spray), but the price was good, and it works for me, although finding the right edge to pull over my head from "collar storage" is a problem I need to solve. I have tried putting the head hole over the camera; I'm not settled on whether or not it succeeds any better, and the single layer doesn't always cut the light adequately, while both layers generally do.

Most of my work is indoors. In my shoulder bag, the T-shirt nicely cradles my camera, acting as extra padding, especially for the ground glass.

[denverjims]

As others have said, "Welcome"!

If this is your first LF and you have access to someone who is a bit handy with sewing, I'd suggest going to a sewing materials place and buy some black curtain backing / room darkener cloth in a fairly large size. It's cheap and can be easily waterproofed with obtainable spray products like the 3M stuff mentioned earlier. Make it into a dark cloth and you can even sew velcro patches into it and add matching self stick patches to your camera (which can be moved and re-moved as you find what works well for you).

Use this for a while and figure out what you like and what you don't. I did this and found I kept cutting it down in size as the first one I made was much larger than I needed. No problem. Just took a scissors to it and re-hemmed.

Then, after you have some experience with it, you can go out and look for a manufactured product (typically expensive) that has those qualities you found you liked and meets your needs. This is the path I took and it saved me some money as well as I learned as I went along.

For instance, one of the things I learned was that black wasn't all I needed. I do a lot of my work on the Western US plains & prairies where the wind blows a lot. My first material was too light and I found I needed something with some weight to it. I hadn't spent a lot on that so I just went back to the store for a heavier weight material.

I think "the Best" dark cloth is a very subjective and individualized thing. We each can recommend one to you, but, in my humble opinion, you will need to experiment to find what fits your methods and style. Starting with a 'homemade' product will allow you to do that a lot less expensively.
Good Luck, Jim

[Kornscharfsteller]

A word on the Chamonix: I'm not sure whether the H models have more control over the displacement of the standards or not (looks like they do), but FWIW, I bought the F2 and kind of wish I'd bought the H model instead. I think there is more control with this model although it's billed as better for wide angle lenses. There's less extension with the H model (350 vs. 395mm), but you have the option of using wider backs - either 5X7 or 4X10, and this opens some sweet options unavailable on the F2. Either way, enjoy!
I made a extra thread (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?162589-Chamonix-C45F-2-vs-C45H-1) for the comparison of the two cameras Maybe you can chime in with your thoughts on this topic there.

So with the H-1 I can use wider backs but can’t with the F-2?

[Kornscharfsteller]

from:https://www.wandererphotogear.com/

I use one of their ultralights

Those look interesting, although quite expensive.
Is the regular „Ultralight“ (somewhat) water repellent?
Is the none-colored side really black (I think they don‘t show in on the pictures)?

[Kornscharfsteller]

one fellow was using a black T-shirt -- head in the neck hole and the shirt pulled up over for use, and retracted to "collaring" when not.
That’s interesting, I like it! Does that also work when you have the loupe around your neck though?

[Ulophot]

Kornscharfsteller, I just looked up your screen name--fun!
Anyway, I edited my most to note that the single layer of T-shirt doesn't always cut the light adequately; two layers do, which is what I usually use, just draping the thing over my head like a cloth, with the short sleeves hanging over the camera back for extra length there. As for the loupe use, the drape works a bit better than the "tube" method for me, but because of the size of the extra-large shirt, the latter also can be made to work, especially if the head hole is over the camera back.

[otto.f]

My wife is a very good needlewoman, I could also let her make one for me if she knew how.

My wife too. I really don’t see the need of buying a dark cloth from a fancy store as if this sort of photography would still justify such an investment. That’s history. LF photography is for fun. So I bought a lightweight piece of cotton and my wife sewed a hem on it with an elastic band in it and a few big push button so that I can attach it at the back standard. Nothing serious, just a matter of fitting and feeling the right length of the elastic band and sewing it to the cotton cloth. Your wife will understand. I don’t make photo’s in the rain btw. I use a reflexviewer for composition and the cloth only a short time for finetuning, so the heat of the sun is not a problem for such a short time.

[John Layton]

Another t-shirt fan here...but I must stay those Wanderer dark cloths look well thought out. I like the lightweight model, and the draw-cord with adjustable chinch should allow for a quick, smooth detachment from the camera prior to taking a photo (especially important if its at all windy), without having to wrestle with velcro which could move the camera about a bit. I like it!

[Tin Can]

Some studio cameras had Dark Cloth supports and one could drape a Dark Cloth on a spring wire

Calumet C1 8X10 camera Dark Cloth wire frame and 50's Linhof studio cameras even used the same spring, front and rear

In studio I used foam core bent to make a front lens hood and a back viewing hood sitting on the wire

I see one FS on eBay right now, for 3 times the price I sold them for....

I made a few exact copies of the C1 accessory years ago

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50994735142_47a58ef676_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGem8q)Linhof wire (https://flic.kr/p/2kGem8q) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[GRAYnomad]

As mentioned way back in this thread I've always used a change bag as I have that with me anyway. I do like the look of the Harrison cloth and might get one, but I suspect I'll stick with what I have.

But for all you t-shirt guys out there, you do realise that change bags (well at least those I've used) are almost the same size and shape as a t-shirt and you probably carry one anyway. Also they are light tight to boot. :)

[mpirie]

I'd suggest looking at the Paramo dark cloth designed by Joe Cornish and David Ward (both well known and respected photographers in the UK) which is sold at the Linhof Studio store.

https://www.linhofstudio.com/products/Focusing-Dark-Cloths-LInhof-paramo-harrison/Paramo_Dark_Cloth

It's light-weight, black, made from waterproof Analogy fabric, has an elasticated collar at one end and a zipper down the length so you can adjust how much room you have under the cloth.

I wouldn't be without mine.

Mike