Longest focal length telephoto lens with bellows draw under 300 mm

[smeylan]

I am looking for the longest focal length lens on my 4x5. The challenge is that I am limited to 12" / 300 mm of bellows draw (black edition Intrepid). I am less concerned about weight, bulk, and price, but do care about optical quality. I only need minimal movements.

So far I have been thinking about two telephotos:

Fujinon T 400mm f8
Nikon 360mm f/8 Nikkor-T ED BT Copal 1

Are there others I should be considering? Is there anything longer out there?

[Steve Goldstein]

The 500mm f/9.5 Tele-Congo has a 287mm flange focal length according to my notes, which would give you a closest focus of around 20 feet or so without an extended lens board. It just covers 4x5 (160mm IC at f/22) so no movements to speak of. Copal 1, 67mm filters. Also sold under the Osaka label, I believe.

[GRAYnomad]

I am looking for the longest focal length lens on my 4x5. The challenge is that I am limited to 12" / 300 mm of bellows draw (black edition Intrepid). I am less concerned about weight, bulk, and price, but do care about optical quality. I only need minimal movements.

So far I have been thinking about two telephotos:

Fujinon T 400mm f8
Nikon 360mm f/8 Nikkor-T ED BT Copal 1

Are there others I should be considering? Is there anything longer out there?

I'm looking at those two as well. The T400 is about half the price so that will probably be my choice.

[GRAYnomad]

The 500mm f/9.5 Tele-Congo has a 287mm flange focal length according to my notes, which would give you a closest focus of around 20 feet or so without an extended lens board. It just covers 4x5 (160mm IC at f/22) so no movements to speak of. Copal 1, 67mm filters. Also sold under the Osaka label, I believe.

Interesting. Although bit limiting it seems with massive fall off.

[Steve Goldstein]

I forgot to mention the Congo (Osaka) 400mm f/8. Compared to the Fujinon, it's about the same size, has a slightly shorter flange focal length, and weighs 150gm (almost 6oz) less. Coverage is less than the Fujinon but more than adequate for 4x5.

[aphcl84]

The Komura telephoto lenses have flange distances of 221mm for the 400mm f8 lens and 258mm for the 500mm f7, the 400mm has a 190mm image circle and the 500mm 210mm.

[GRAYnomad]

The Komura telephoto lenses have flange distances of 221mm for the 400mm f8 lens and 258mm for the 500mm f7, the 400mm has a 190mm image circle and the 500mm 210mm.

Oooo, now we're talkin'. What's the catch? There has to be a catch.

EDIT: I can't find any real specs anywhere. Do you have a document or link?

[mdarnton]

If you are into older tech, the Wollensak 15" (381 mm) tele-Raptar/tele-Optar is a very fine lens. It's got about 7.5" flange focus, and nearly covers 8x10. They used to be dirt cheap, but I see that the price is going up. I like it so much I have three of them in shutters and a couple that aren't.

[Mick Fagan]

With regards to the Komura, there isn't a catch, they just do it.

I still use mine on my wooden 4x5" folder sparingly, it's heavy and care needs to be taken, but it does the job. Below, is a picture of it on my Toyo 45G.

Mick.

[Drew Bedo]

Look at the old Wollensak 15' (380mm) f/5.6 Tele-Optar. Some are in barrel and some are in an Alphax shutter.

Back focus at infinity is around 809 inches. These were originally used on press cameras I think, so front movements, while available, are limited. For some shooters, these limitations may be outweighed by the f/5.6 max aperture.

These lenses come up on -Bay from time to time, sometimes in a nice sturdy wooden box.

Another similar option in an older lens might be the Schneider Tele-Xenars.

[smeylan]

This is all very helpful, thanks everyone!

Silly follow-up question -- is there a way to support a long lens besides a second tripod? (looking particularly at the Komura lenses)

[Bernice Loui]

Second tripod or similar should not be needed with 12" or so of bellows and camera extension if the camera can be balanced at its point of support and the camera has eight rigidity-stability as designed-built.

This is one of the goals of using a telephoto design LF lens, to reduce bellows and camera extension to accommodate a view camera with limited bellows and camera draw. This reduction is draw length tends to help-aid with camera-lens stability when images are made. One of the primary reasons why telephoto design LF lenses happened was to accommodate field folders with limited bellows and camera extension allowing these limits imposed by camera to use a lens focal length longer than it could have otherwise.

If the camera is not stable-rigid and all of those requirements with 12" of camera extension-bellows draw, camera design-build quality IS the issue.


This is completely different with using non-telephoto lenses longer than 19" (~480mm) or Macro. These image requirements often demanded a LOT more camera extension and bellows than 12". That is when figuring out how best to set up and support the camera and all related becomes "interesting".


Bernice





This is all very helpful, thanks everyone!

Silly follow-up question -- is there a way to support a long lens besides a second tripod? (looking particularly at the Komura lenses)

[Dan Fromm]

The Komura telephoto lenses have flange distances of 221mm for the 400mm f8 lens and 258mm for the 500mm f7, the 400mm has a 190mm image circle and the 500mm 210mm.

Jim, where did you get this information?

[Dan Fromm]

This is all very helpful, thanks everyone!

Silly follow-up question -- is there a way to support a long lens besides a second tripod? (looking particularly at the Komura lenses)

Which camera do you have?

You'll have to make a bracket that attaches to your camera's tripod socket. I'd use 1" x 1" or 1.5" x 1.5" t-slotted aluminum extrusion as offered by 80/20 on, e.g., amazon.com. Put an inexpensive lab jack on it to support the lens. Drill and tap it at approximately the balance point to let you mount the assembly on a tripod. With the typical tripod, you'll probably have to make plate, with a hole tapped to accept the tripod's screw, and attach the plate to the extrusion. You could accomplish much the same with suitable piece of wood but the t-slotted extrusion will be more rigid etc.

[aphcl84]

Oooo, now we're talkin'. What's the catch? There has to be a catch.

EDIT: I can't find any real specs anywhere. Do you have a document or link?


Jim, where did you get this information?

No catch other than the size and weight and lack of multicoating. I have several data sheets for the Komura lenses. 212874212875212876

[aphcl84]

Links to the full size scans.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50957777636_3ffc7162f0_k.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50957079213_9706d42126_k.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50957884582_b4cd930b5a_k.jpg

[Mick Fagan]

Interesting information on the Komura lenses, however my 400mm telephoto doesn't appear on those sheets.

Mine is 400mm f/6.3 and is mounted into a Copal No. 3 shutter. I just popped it onto the electronic kitchen scales and including the genuine Technika lens board, it weighs 898 grams.

I seem to remember a special spacer between the shutter and the lens board being a requirement, which mine has, aluminium it is, presumably keep the weight at bay. I think if you found one of these Komura lenses, see if you can get it mounted into a lens board ready to go.

Mick.

Edit: if you go back a page and look at the picture I posted, you can see the aluminium spacer between the lens board and the shutter, it should look like that if you find the 400 T f/6.3 unit.

Another edit: the filter size is 67mm.

[Mick Fagan]

Gray Nomad, I see you're in Bundy, if ever you are in Melbourne, then you can have an optic nerve and if you have your camera with you, you can have a go with it.

Mick.

[aphcl84]

Mick, I just took a look at my 500mm and you are correct about the aperture for the 400mm. As well as the spec sheet shows it in a Copal 1 while the 400mm 6.3 shares the Copal 3S with the 500mm and a 300mm. I suspect the 400mm in my spec sheets is an older model, the specs for the 500mm are accurate as far as I can tell though, certainly the flange distance is.

I have seen at least three versions of the large format 500mm Komura but they seem to be cosmetic rather than optical. For example my lens has a leather wrap on the barrel of the lens. There is also a version for medium format and 35mm but it has a different optical design.

[Dan Fromm]

No catch other than the size and weight and lack of multicoating. I have several data sheets for the Komura lenses.
Thanks for the very helpful reply.

[GRAYnomad]

Links to the full size scans.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50957777636_3ffc7162f0_k.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50957079213_9706d42126_k.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50957884582_b4cd930b5a_k.jpg

Thanks heaps for that.

[GRAYnomad]

Gray Nomad, I see you're in Bundy, if ever you are in Melbourne, then you can have an optic nerve and if you have your camera with you, you can have a go with it.

Mick.

That would be great, not that I plan to ever enter a city again :D I may have to if we go back to Tassie though which is something we plan to do.

Are you involved with the Friends of Photography mob? LF seems to be alive and well in Melbourne, not so much in Bundaberg.

[GRAYnomad]

I seem to remember a special spacer between the shutter and the lens board being a requirement, which mine has, aluminium it is, presumably keep the weight at bay. I think if you found one of these Komura lenses, see if you can get it mounted into a lens board ready to go.


Something like this?

212877

Not the same lens as yours but it seems to have a spacer of some kind.