Mystery gray specks on backs of prints

[Ben Calwell]

Having an issue that's never cropped up before. I'm using Ilford Multigrade Classic FB paper, and recently I've noticed small gray specks that show up in random, scattered patterns on the backs of the prints. I notice it while washing them. I'm attaching a photo that will hopefully show what I'm talking about. And today I noticed, by accident, that if I hold up a wet print to light, the light shows through where each gray mark is. My only theory is that I sometimes use a No. 2 soft lead pencil to make light notations on the back of prints before going into the developer. Could the pencil marks be somehow leaching into my chemistry and making irregular patterned marks (specks) on the prints? It's worse on some prints than on others, and some don't have the marks at all.
I'm going to stop writing on the backs of the prints before developing them and see if that's the cause. In the meantime, does anyone have any other theories?
Thanks in advance.212549

[Jim Noel]

I have only been doing darkroom work since 1939. I have never heard of anyone writing on the reverse of the paper prior to exposure and development, nor have i seen such marks .
Soft lead pencil marks are "flaky" if viewed under a microscope, so you may have made a correct assumption.
Notes should be kept in a notebook, or in a digital file.

[Pieter]

I know of many people who make notes in pencil on the back of a print prior to exposing the paper. I do not know that that has ever caused a problem.

[Ben Calwell]

The pencil could be the problem, but I’ve done that previously with no issues. Next darkroom session, I won’t do that and see what happens.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I have been making notes on the back of prints with a no.2 pencil for many years (not quite like Jim) and have never seen any adverse effect. Sounds like it is something else.

[Ben Calwell]

To my horror, I think I must also have wash-related issues. While trying to determine the cause of the gray speck issue, I held a print up to a light so that it was back-lit. I saw what look like brown, cloud-like stains in parts of the print, and the edges of the white borders were also dirty looking and stained. These are not visible when the prints are not back lit. They look fine. I use a wash aid and follow Ilford’s wash regimen. I don’t have any sort of filtration system on my darkroom water supply, so perhaps that’s a problem. I held up prints from months ago to a light, and those, too, have brownish stains. Could a developer tray stained brown from years of use cause this problem? I rinse it well after each use, but I’ve never tried to scour the brown stain off. I’ll use a new tray next time and see what happens.

[Doremus Scudder]

... Could a developer tray stained brown from years of use cause this problem? I rinse it well after each use, but I’ve never tried to scour the brown stain off. I’ll use a new tray next time and see what happens.

Ben,

Yes, the stains in your developer tray can rub off on the back of prints. It happens to me quite regularly (well, not to me, really, to my prints :) ).

However, these are usually just small spots that rub off fairly easily most of the time. Large, cloud-like stains would seem to indicate some other problem.

The first thing that comes to mind, of course, is fixation. Make sure you are not using exhausted fixer. Remember that fixer can go bad with age as well as with overuse, so do a quick clip-test to make sure of its activity. And, don't overuse (probably preaching to the choir here...).

Water quality could also be a problem as would HCA that is too old and has accumulated lots of contaminants.

If you tone, there could also be a problem in the toning sequence.

If your new developer tray doesn't solve the problem, post again with more details.

Best,

Doremus

[Ben Calwell]

Ben,

Yes, the stains in your developer tray can rub off on the back of prints. It happens to me quite regularly (well, not to me, really, to my prints :) ).

However, these are usually just small spots that rub off fairly easily most of the time. Large, cloud-like stains would seem to indicate some other problem.

The first thing that comes to mind, of course, is fixation. Make sure you are not using exhausted fixer. Remember that fixer can go bad with age as well as with overuse, so do a quick clip-test to make sure of its activity. And, don't overuse (probably preaching to the choir here...).

Water quality could also be a problem as would HCA that is too old and has accumulated lots of contaminants.

If you tone, there could also be a problem in the toning sequence.

If your new developer tray doesn't solve the problem, post again with more details.

Best,

Doremus

Thanks, Doremus.
I was in the darkroom today to see if I could pinpoint the problem. I made two prints -- one print has the gray spots or speckles on the back, the other one does not. I used a clean, non-stained tray for my developer. I fixed both prints and washed them for about 15 minutes in a tray, shuffling them the whole time and dumping water from the tray and re-filling it. I hung them to dry and will complete the toning and washing process later. I use a wash aid after toning.
I've attached two images. On one, you can see how light shines through where each gray spot is. Under normal lighting from the print side, you can't see the gray spots. The other image shows what the gray speckles look like on the back.
On these prints, I don't see any of the cloudy, brown m212589ottling, which leads me to think my selenium toner must be dirty. I reuse it again and again, replenishing as needed. I'll mix a fresh batch of toner using distilled water and see if that's the problem.

[Ben Calwell]

Thanks, Doremus.
I was in the darkroom today to see if I could pinpoint the problem. I made two prints -- one print has the gray spots or speckles on the back, the other one does not. I used a clean, non-stained tray for my developer. I fixed both prints and washed them for about 15 minutes in a tray, shuffling them the whole time and dumping water from the tray and re-filling it. I hung them to dry and will complete the toning and washing process later. I use a wash aid after toning.
I've attached two images. On one, you can see how light shines through where each gray spot is. Under normal lighting from the print side, you can't see the gray spots. The other image shows what the gray speckles look like on the back.
On these prints, I don't see any of the cloudy, brown m212589ottling, which leads me to think my selenium toner must be dirty. I reuse it again and again, replenishing as needed. I'll mix a fresh batch of toner using distilled water and see if that's the problem.


212590

Here's the image shows light shining through where each gray spot is on the back of the print.

[sharktooth]

This looks a little bit like the effect from the backing paper of 120 roll film contacting the emulsion surface of the film, usually with very old film. Has the box of paper been open for a while? It's purely a guess that some gelatin from the emulsion is being transferred to the back of the sheet above it. That may affect the translucency of the paper when wet. You could test that out by taking a couple of sheets from the box and just running them through wash water to get them wet.

[revdoc]

It actually looks like an issue with the paper... to me, it looks like the sizing (assuming this SG paper is sized). I've seen similar things with the watercolour paper I use for alt processes, but never SG paper. Not only can you get spots without sizing where light shows through the paper (especially when it's wet), but you can also get places where the paper is over sized, which shows up as shadows in transmitted light.

Either way, I don't think it's your processing.