Used Norman 200b

[LabRat]

Hi.
Am offered a used 200b outfit in untested condition, with charger & LX-3 (?) head for low cost... I have used them in their prime and a good lower power strobe when I need a little more oompf power on location than on-camera types...

I expect it might require some $$$ to be thrown at it to get it up and running, but only might use it 2 or 3 times a year, but I know they should be used/charged regularly or it might go into the big sleep...

So is it wise to consider, or a possible money pit when I want to use it???

Also, anyone had luck rebuilding the battery pack if needed, or upgraded to the gel cells?

Thanks,

Steve K

[Dugan]

I had Norman strobes back in the '90's, and had Robal in LA do all my repairs.
Not sure if they're still around...

[LabRat]

I had Norman strobes back in the '90's, and had Robal in LA do all my repairs.
Not sure if they're still around...

They were the best in town, but the company broke up, with different individuals still doing it...

Holly Enterprises are still here, and good specialists, but I like cheap and working units!!!

Good units, probably will work, but battery is probably good as gone... And I'm trying to keep it cheap as I seldom use it these, (as i might be in some shooting faze)... But I know battery strobes don't store well over time...

I'm also trying to avoid a money pit, maybe... ;-)

Thanks,

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

Norman 200B, they remain one of the better built, durable and repairable "portable" strobe units made. These were from a time when market demands supported strobe units built this way at a $.

Their claim to fame was 200 watt/seconds (full power or 100w/s or 50w/s, switchable) with 1-2 seconds recycling time and ability to repeat flash at this rate. Quite impressive for the time. The other nice feature was interchangeable reflectors or bare bulb with interchangeable lamp heads and socket replaceable flash tube.

The original ni-cad batteries were D size about 4 Amp/hour capacity. Today nickel metal hydride batteries of higher capacity can be easily had to replace the oem nicads. Or higher quality, higher capacity D size nicads can be used to rebuild/replace the oem battery pack.

Sprial wound lead-acid batteries have been used in the distant past to replace the nicads. they work ok, at twice the weight and lower energy storage capacity. https://www.onesourcebatteries.com/haency2vo25a.html
These require a different charging system than nicads or nickel metal hydride batteries.

The modern replacement power source would be Lithium which is lower weight with a LOT more energy storage capacity. These require a completely different charging system. but due to the way 200B is built, external charging and swapping of battery packs is easy.

Holly is still around for service and parts.

Have a 200B system in storage if interested. It needs a home.

Eventually, Norman replaced the 200B with the 400B or 400 watt/seconds in the same package and similar package.

The 200B alternative became Sunpak 120J which was a self contained unit or corded with an external power pack. Offered similar features and performance to the 200B.


Appears the largest user base and market for these portable strobe units were medium format wielding (typically Hasselblad) wedding photographers as there was significant $ for those images back in the day.



Bernice

[LabRat]

Thanks Bernice & Doug!!! Still don't have this (cheap) unit in my hands yet, but wanted to know what I might be getting into if things go right with this...

Mainly, I have occasionally needed a "bubble" of light sometimes during night or shooting in an abandoned building etc, but wanted a strobe that can live on a shelf asleep, only to wake after charging and work... I have no karma with ni-cads in tools, electronics etc, and wanted to rebuild battery pack with something different that wakes up well after slumber... I have better luck with hydride types, and the unit has good access to battery for external charging...

I don't need max capacity, just enough juice for several shots with metering pops...

Do you remember what the pak voltage was??? 12 volts or something???

Thanks, you folks are a pop of light on a dark night!!! ;-)

Steve K

[Daniel Unkefer]

In the 90s Norman 200B was cheap and plentiful. I bought a number of complete units, as well as reflectors and most of the accessories. A dealer on Ebay was selling an assembled new battery and charger, so I bought four or five of the battery and the correct trickle charger. There was a warning pasted on each battery to use trickle charge only! I used them occasionally and they are great units. I did send my two good packs to New York City Flash Clinic, they were famous for converting Hasselblad Ringlights to Norman 200b packs. I sent them both packs, they adjusted the electronics, as the flashtubes would "sparkle" after discharge without adaption. Fashion photography was all about the ringlight in the 80's.

In 2019 I dug out my packs and replaced the lead acids with new. It was an easy solder job only two leads. Fifteen Bucks for a fresh
lead acid battery is a bargain in my book. Tested recycle time today with both units just a bit over one second at 200 watt seconds discharge. A powerhouse portable strobe system that goes and goes and goes.

http://www.bb-battery.com/global/index.php?fn=product/product&product_id=141

BTW I recycled the old dead lead batteries at a car parts store

This is the battery that fits the 200b.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49368080968_3c2f48e796_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2idujvN)Blad Ringlight Makiflex Norman 200b (https://flic.kr/p/2idujvN) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Here's the Blad Ringlight on one of my Plaubel Makiflexes. This camera takes 4x5 film

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935665611_e352f52192_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kB1APe)Norman 200b Fresh Batteries (https://flic.kr/p/2kB1APe) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Here are the new 2019 replacement lead acid batteries, I bought four of them. I simply removed the old duct tape, desoldered the two leads, resoldered, and re-taped. $15 each plus shipping

Good as new and ready to go!

[HMG]

T (snip) Mainly, I have occasionally needed a "bubble" of light sometimes during night or shooting in an abandoned building etc, but wanted a strobe that can live on a shelf asleep, only to wake after charging and work... I have no karma with ni-cads in tools, electronics etc, and wanted to rebuild battery pack with something different that wakes up well after slumber... I have better luck with hydride types, and the unit has good access to battery for external charging...

I don't need max capacity, just enough juice for several shots with metering pops...

(snip again)

Steve K


Metz 60? Easy to configure power pack to use a common 6v SLA battery. Though some have configured for LiON battery. But any rechargeable battery will require some occasional charging if asleep too long (say over 8-12 months).

[LabRat]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935665611_e352f52192_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kB1APe)Norman 200b Fresh Batteries (https://flic.kr/p/2kB1APe) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Here are the new 2019 replacement lead acid batteries, I bought four of them. I simply removed the old duct tape, desoldered the two leads, resoldered, and re-taped. $15 each plus shipping

Good as new and ready to go!

Great rig, looks like fun to shoot!!!

Leaning towards these batteries, at least cheap to replace after death, and no assembly required...

But how are you recharging them??? Old charger, updated old charger, new external charger??? I recently bought a smart charger for my car that has a mode for this type of battery, so can bypass old charging systems...

Thanks,

Steve K

[LabRat]

Metz 60? Easy to configure power pack to use a common 6v SLA battery. Though some have configured for LiON battery. But any rechargeable battery will require some occasional charging if asleep too long (say over 8-12 months).

Have a Metz somewhere, but also want bare bulb configuration, and found a 200b...

I have a ritual to charge and reform caps in many electronic devices I have at least every few months, but these gizmos have an ability to hide from me when I get on this tear, so looking for a hearty solution if I miss charging it during slumber... But you are right!!!

Thanks,

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

With all the 200B talk, decided to dig out the 200B that was in storage. Not been used in many years. Battery is beyond knackered. The adhesive used to hold the battery pack together failed allowing the BP to come apart easy. Clipped off the long gone ni-cad battery, connected those battery wires to a 12V battery. The 200B screamed right up, powered up, ready neon bulb flashing. Flash triggered good on all three power settings. Let the 200B run for a while since it has not been on for so long.

No only are these 200B portable flash units reliable they are built with high quality US of A industry methods from years gone by.
212603


Turns out the battery has ten 1/2 size "D" ni-cads making about 12VDC. This size ni-cad from that era would have about 2 amp.hour capacity.

The battery connections are as follows:

*Socket# 1 = Red wire, Battery positive (+).

*Socket# 2 = Black wire, Battery negative (-).

*Socket# 3 = Gray wire, Thermo switch welded to the battery's negative terminal along with the battery negative wire to the connector.
212605

212604



Knowing this is a good working Norman 200B, might consider using it to make some images. Stuff like "paint with light" in a dark interior, flashing the interior with the 200B exposing the film in specific areas with each flash.. or ???


Bernice

[Daniel Unkefer]

But how are you recharging them??? Old charger, updated old charger, new external charger??? Steve K

SteveL,

I will look for my 200B charger. It is a modern unit, as I said I bought it assembled on Ebay. I am sure it is still available as are new lead acids. :)

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935665611_e352f52192_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kB1APe)Norman 200b Fresh Batteries (https://flic.kr/p/2kB1APe) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50938601933_8f26b4fac0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kBgDFt)Homemade Norman 200B Charger 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2kBgDFt) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50938604563_9486d6ff52_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kBgEsP)Homemade Norman 200B Charger 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2kBgEsP) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50938607603_dff4a051c8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kBgFne)Homemade Norman 200B Charger 3 (https://flic.kr/p/2kBgFne) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I thought this was really clever. This is totally homemade, but very professional and fully functional. Cheap New parts are available to revive these venerable 200 watt second portable units. Lots of bang for the buck. The range of reflectors is truly impressive. The TELEPHOTO reflector is awesome. It adds a lot of light to distant shooting by concentrating the light and adding two stops in pop as I recall.

[Daniel Unkefer]

What I would like to make myself, is a clip-on battery tester for the lead acid 200B batteries. So I could determine their level of charge. New York City Flash Clinic was making really nice ones they told me for around $50. Sadly they are gone :(

Anybody here understand the electronics I would need to do this?

[Bernice Loui]

Get a reasonable 3.5 digit digital volt meter. These can be had for not a lot these days ($10-$20). Check the battery voltage with the DVM. Fully charged "12Volt" lead acid battery will read about 13.2 to 13.5 volts.


Bernice



What I would like to make myself, is a clip-on battery tester for the lead acid 200B batteries. So I could determine their level of charge. New York City Flash Clinic was making really nice ones they told me for around $50. Sadly they are gone :(

Anybody here understand the electronics I would need to do this?

[LabRat]

Yea, the battery will show a drop in voltage from its 13.5v fully charged state during use, but will drop to a lower voltage, until it reaches a threshold where device won't operate... That's your operating range...

I'd be tempted to drill a couple of holes into the pack housing to put banana jack sockets for a charging port + measuring port...

Steve K

[LabRat]

Hi, managed to get hands on this unit... Still need to test, but don't have a battery or power supply handy to test it yet (in deep storage)... No expectations for the old batteries, but will order the gel/acid battery ASAP... No dents or burns in connectors or PCB's, and the units were VERY reliable, and flash tube intact, so let's see what it does!!!

Also came with LH3B lamphead... Never used one, but seems useful with automatic setting... Any experience out there? Only used the old sci-fi looking LH2 (and might be looking for one, folks)...

Daniel, what was name/# of the telephoto reflector??? Useful bit!!!

Thanks for bringing "light" into my life!!!

On cupid-is-stupid day, don't get stung... ;-)

Steve K

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50944299017_ed58dd031a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kBLRe4)Norman 200B Telephoto Reflector (https://flic.kr/p/2kBLRe4) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

The Norman 200b Telephoto Reflector. Very shiny and parabolic. Concentrates the light increases guide number a decent amount

Has Norman logo but no other markings. I would think Norman catalogs have to be on the internet. Anybody??

[LabRat]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50944299017_ed58dd031a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kBLRe4)Norman 200B Telephoto Reflector (https://flic.kr/p/2kBLRe4) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

The Norman 200b Telephoto Reflector. Very shiny and parabolic. Concentrates the light increases guide number a decent amount

Has Norman logo but no other markings. I would think Norman catalogs have to be on the internet. Anybody??

Kool!!!!!!!!

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

Heh.. Got one of those "wok" Norman 200B series reflectors too. Norman made a series of reflectors and add on for the 200B series like the flash bulb riser to widen the angle of light. This would be the widget at the lower RH corner of this pix.
212688

Rear of this reflector has nothing other than a Norman sticker.
212689

Norman 200B "soft" diffusion reflector.
212690


Bernice

[LabRat]

Heh.. Got one of those "wok" Norman 200B series reflectors too. Norman made a series of reflectors and add on for the 200B series like the flash bulb riser to widen the angle of light. This would be the widget at the lower RH corner of this pix.
212688

Rear of this reflector has nothing other than a Norman sticker.
212689

Norman 200B "soft" diffusion reflector.
212690


Bernice

Good to know about the "riser" widget, gotta find one, and the other reflectors... I figure one can make a diffusion reflector out of old reflector, can of flat white paint, and some Tupperware lid...

Thanks!!!

Steve K

[LabRat]

Daniel, the 200B instruction manuals I have seen online have a listing of the accessories for this flash at the end...

But there might be more stuff over the time they were producing...

Also, followed the link you provided about the new batteries, but didn't find price or sales info on their pages... Are they a distributor, or do they do direct sales, or did you use a dealer???

Thanks,

Steve K

[Daniel Unkefer]

I used an internet dealer and was lucky to find the exact same battery as I bought assembled from the ebay dealer who was making these ready to go over a decade ago.

I just did an internet search, I found this one that looks very similar. It's BB BP2.3-12, 12V and 2.3ah as are my batteries, maybe this will work?

https://www.osibatteries.com/replacement-bb-bp2-3-12-battery-12v-sealed-rechargeable?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2fTYhoTs7gIVCv7jBx3H5A9oEAQYBSABEgIPtPD_BwE

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50946667091_bf324804ba_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kBYZaV)Norman Homemade Diffuser and Model Light Head (https://flic.kr/p/2kBYZaV) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Left that is a homemade diffuser which was ugly the adhesive was a mess. I cleaned it up and reglued it with aquarium cement.

On the right is the modeling light head with a fresh new bulb ESP JCV120V-150WGB2 just replaced. I'll finish the power cord for this one.

[LabRat]

More Koolness!!! You have been busy working on these...

Thanks for tracking down that battery #... That should work, and great you did the footwork!!!

Now I have to get my ducks-in-a-row to fire mine up... A charged battery, some connections, and a stormy night flying kites in the lightning... ;-)

And I should bring unit sometime to Holly or other strobe Dr. to give it a once over for safety or reliability upgrade advice...

Thanks again, folks!!!

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

Given there has been about zero market interest in these once extremely useful and reliable portable strobe units..
Decided to fix it up. First step, replace all the flash capacitors that were made in 1979.

These are new 560uF at 500 Volt electrolytic capacitors that are being formed to assure they are going to be ok prior to installation into the 200B.
216947

Follow up as this process proceeds.


Yes, a bit bored.
Bernice

[LabRat]

Given there has been about zero market interest in these once extremely useful and reliable portable strobe units..
Decided to fix it up. First step, replace all the flash capacitors that were made in 1979.

These are new 560uF at 500 Volt electrolytic capacitors that are being formed to assure they are going to be ok prior to installation into the 200B.
216947

Follow up as this process proceeds.


Yes, a bit bored.
Bernice

Great!!! Long may it run!!!

Got mine working and it seems to be behaving well!!! Still have to go through a working testing phase, but did a test with the 4X5 shooting... Lamp head was about 6' away from subject direct/EI 100 and flash meter read f32 @200ws!!! Plenty of light, but still have to do bounce/umbrella test for fill light... Recycles almost instantly... Was going to test with DSLR, but noticed camera does not have PC jack, so need a hot shoe adapter... Digital should give me instant access to distant results I want to try with this flash...

Mine seems to be newer, as I found some stickers inside with 2/01, so that might be a date of manufacture... The first battery I ordered was defective, so had trouble firing it up, but when replaced, worked fine... Also found there is a 2.9ah gel cell battery that will fit, instead of the common 2.2ah, so will get one next time... Found many accessories usable with this strobe before purchase, so strobe seems ment to be for me... Good flashcords, largish camera bag rig fits into, flash spotmeter, umbrellas, + more... And even a quality car battery smart charger with a gel cell mode like new/cheeeap... And a Nikon SB-11 potato masher working/cheap for a second light...So now have a system...

Might start doing environmental portraits on the side with it, but still waiting to hear about my job coming back, so will see what happens...

Have fun with the mad scientist project!!! (Fly the kites, Igor!!!) ;-)

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

The old 200B flash capacitors are dated mid 1976 and need to rest and "retire" from service. These capacitors measure about half their marked capacitance value. They cannot produce the spec flash light output and they are leaking to boot.
217020

New flash capacitors installed after then have been reformed to assure being in good condition. Capacitance value went up from 400uF at 500volts to 560uF at 500 volts. The original 200B flash capacitor spec calculates to 50watt/seconds per capacitor with a total of 200watt/seconds. Increasing the capacitance to 560uF at 500volts calculates to 70watt/seconds with a total of 280watt seconds or the spec limit of the FT120 flash tube.
217021

They ~just squish in~
217022

All done.
217023

Tested ok with the LH2 lamp head and standard reflector produces f16.5 at 10 ft.

Next up, new batteries.


Bernice

[LabRat]

I haven't pulled the top deck off the internal pack yet to access this area, but have to at some point, as the foam covered transformer (?) is shedding badly, so need to remove/re-secure it... Your project is inspiring me to consider re-capping at some point...

Had a longish phone chat with Brett at Holly Enterprises, who guided me along the process (very knowledgeable!!!), and he mentioned an important check is feeling how hot the mounted transistors at the bottom... If they are very hot operating, this means other components are in a near runaway condition and very bad for the unit's health... Also, near the top on board are two trimmers, where one when re-adjusted will lower the sync voltage from about 100v to about 30v, making it safer to use with a digital camera sync... (Stick a pair of voltmeter leads into sync plug to measure DC volts)...

Like mentioned, maybe will recap sometime... I routinely service much older tube audio and test gear, so know the re-forming sequence... Didn't initally reform these, just powered them up for a long time, then flashing once, then a long idle... I prefer a week long ramp-up using different current limiting resistors, variac, HV transformer, bridge, and VOM'S on resistors to monitor, but this unit appeared newer, and wasn't sure it would work at all, so just gave it a shot...

On new batteries, found that even charged ones benefit from an initial 24 hr float charge to break-in... As mentioned, there is a 2.9ah (I think PowerSonic brand) that fits... Brett rebuilds ni-cad packs and says those give the most flashes, but my history with ni-cads is I do everything right, keep 'em charged, discharge them before charging, and still die early deaths, so I don't have the karma with them... The gel cells are fine for me... For charger, found a Noco G3500 smart charger (with gel cell mode) newish at a thrift, and love using it for car and gel charging... New battery harness was as simple as snipping old harness out of old battery pack and attaching insulated female spade terminals to connect directly to battery terminals (from auto store)... Save the remains of the old battery pack in case you want to rebuild it someday...

Carry on!!!

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

Will need to call Bert at Holly to chat about these 200Bs.

I'll re-thermo goo the power transistors as the thermal gooo has likely dried out by now.

There are two trimmers in the top board, remember which of the two trimmers adjust the sync voltage?

Reforming old caps does not do if the caps have aged, dried and died. For caps this old, replace them is the proper choice.


Ordered up some 4 amp-hour ni-mh portable power tool sub C cells, stack of ten fits into the battery space. The ni-mh battery chemistry makes them agreeable with the standard 200B battery charger. This is the next project. Once all done, I'll need to come up with a Foto project for this 200B.


Bernice

[MrFujicaman]

guys, the 12 volt battery you need is available at www.allelectronics as their stock # GC-1223 for $15.7

[LabRat]

Will need to call Bert at Holly to chat about these 200Bs.

I'll re-thermo goo the power transistors as the thermal gooo has likely dried out by now.

There are two trimmers in the top board, remember which of the two trimmers adjust the sync voltage?

Reforming old caps does not do if the caps have aged, dried and died. For caps this old, replace them is the proper choice.


Ordered up some 4 amp-hour ni-mh portable power tool sub C cells, stack of ten fits into the battery space. The ni-mh battery chemistry makes them agreeable with the standard 200B battery charger. This is the next project. Once all done, I'll need to come up with a Foto project for this 200B.


Bernice

My power transistors run with no heat at all, so compound maybe not needed if unit is normally operating...

Let me check the trimmer placement... I think it's the one by the output switch (I have to go over to my storage to see it)... He said there was some thread-lok on both, but you can check if it is removed from trimmer, and that is upgraded and that trimmer is it, mostly rotated to lower value low range... Or sync outlet is about 31V... (Will check my unit this week sometime...)

With gel cell, haven't yet, but expect over 100 pops at 200w/s or more at lower power... Uses a lot of power idling, as Brett said, p/s swings up to 25A recycling... Leaving on for over an hour will drain most of what's left in battery (cycle on/off when needed)...

Other update is in heads.... Trigger coil is green candy piece looking component on pcb inside head (with a cap next to it)... One head wasn't triggering, but noticed trigger coil was half dangling off... One lead broken, and the other a dry solder hole... Need new trigger coil, Brett has them, but expensive, so maybe microsurgery to the thin lead, or find donor head for parts... And secure coil to pcb with hot goo, epoxy etc to support coil to board...

70's/80's caps often not so good!!! I have reformed some from 40's/50's gear that are still holding up well, but re-capping stuff before it goes into heavy use... But OK to cap test a corpse unit usually if ok (at least tube stuff)...

Steve K

[MrFujicaman]

I checked-the Powersonic battery #'s are PS-1220 for the 2.5 amp and PS1229L for the 2.9 amp.

Ebay has several of the 2.3 amp batteries in this shape for 14-15 bucks

I have multiple Vivitar 365 flashes and I've made up 2 power supplies for them using a 12V "buck transformer" that steps up the voltage to 365 volts. Using a LiPo 12 volt battery in the newest, I've cut the full power manual recycling time down to 2 seconds.

[LabRat]

guys, the 12 volt battery you need is available at www.allelectronics as their stock # GC-1223 for $15.7

Ordered generic of this... Worked, but first battery was defective... Will order the 2.9ah next time...

Thanks for looking!!!

Steve K

[MrFujicaman]

Guys. I have a question..are the batteries wired up in parallel for more amperage or in series for 24 volts? just curious..

[Bernice Loui]

Depends on the batteries. 200B runs on about 12VDC, NOT 24 volts. Apply 24 volts, serious damage to the 200B will happen.

There are a number of 12volt packaged lead acid batteries that are a direct fit into the 200B, BUT these lead acid batteries cannot and should never be charged using the standard Norman 200B charger. There will be a problems to very serious problem if this is done.

Alternative is to use 10 each, Nicad or Ni-mh batteries that can fit into the 200B battery space.


Bernice







Guys. I have a question..are the batteries wired up in parallel for more amperage or in series for 24 volts? just curious..

[Bernice Loui]

The battery deed is done. The 4Ah or 4,000mah Ni-mh sub-C cells with solder tabs arrived. These are found on Amazon and else where, intended for portable power tool battery pack re-builds.

https://www.amazon.com/Rechargeable-Power-Tools-Battery-4000mAh/dp/B08ZK8DTDR

Arrived in packs of 5 each:
217108

Made up a 12 volt pack of 10 cells, lashed up with 3M blue tape. OK enough for now until some proper shrink wrap can be procured and installed.
217109

Fits easy into the 200B battery space. Nearly twice the battery capacity, half the weight of a lead acid battery pack with about the same cost. Charges up with the standard 200B charger in trickle or rapid mode. If rapid mode is used, Timer is a MUST (about 3 hours to full charge) as there is no thermal cut off to shut off the high current or rapid charge as was built into the OEM 200B nicad battery pack. Over charging the Ni-mh batteries will damage them or cause a significant problem.

Felt was used to pad up the extra space in the 200B battery pack area.
217110


All checks out, the fast cycling to 200W/S is back, bit more than OEM flash output due to the larger value flash capacitors with the predictable flash output as 200Bs are known for. Have a Foto project idea for this portable flash unit, but 200W/S could prove to be no where near enough.


Bernice

[LabRat]

Went to storage, and now have strobe in front of me...

Now checking sync voltage and is 30.5V... Trimmer without goo is center top nearer the power on/off switch... He said mine was tweaked for lower sync voltage already...

Great about using the old charger... Initally didn't want to use it as its heavy and trying to grow up to be a toaster, but read in the manual it can operate it on AC while charging battery pack (slowly), so that would be useful for shooting where strobe would be on for a long time... (Was expecting to re-purpose charger as a car battery trickle charger, audio amplifier etc...) But now will save it if I build the battery pack... Brett said a new charged pack will give 350-400 flashes, but I expect yours maybe much more... I don't need too many flashes per charge now, but that can change quickly... ;-) And now that you mentioned it, the pack is getting a little hefty with the gel battery inside... :-(

Am now looking at this lamp head I ended up using... Mine came with the LX-3 (?) Auto head which fired, but auto not working... Brett said those were trash, so got another LH-2 to replace it (cheap online)... But had no mounting and hole in bottom was stripped, but managed to shoot with it on a small tripod... Ordered another very cheap LH-2 for parts and got no tube, but had the modeling light reflector and stand mount/bracket, but also noticed it had the straight 10' grey cord, not the curly 5 footer (hate coiled cords!!!)... But that head had the trigger coil issue, so swapped the trigger boards out... But need to get the other working when I need the short cord when strobe is on camera... Or when 2 heads can be used together with the Y-cord (up to 4 can be used)...

Was also interested in the modeling light, but found out these were made for the 500 series packs, works on the 200b, but modeling light was powered by 120 VAC from AC pack... So does nothing with 200b... Measured connector with unit on and voltmeter just triggered head... Was hoping for 12v there so I could try an auto LED back-up lamp for the modeling light... Still can run it from a separate battery, but don't know where the bulb shines etc... I will try it sometime...

Strap is good on mine, but removed it to save space when packed... With long cord, it's easy to leave pack on ground under tall stand while sitting in its bag (a medium old black Tenba which holds entire rig)... I think stand mounting for most everything right now, until I need camera mounting sometimes...

I figure best testing now would be with a digi, so I can see results then and there... Was going to test it with my older digi cameras, but none had a pc socket... Just ordered a used Wein safe-sync for adapter, and figure there's another layer of protection for the camera sync... One job for this strobe will be to see if a house, building, something big can be shot with this from some distance with maybe the higher ISO/faster lens wide open...

Also got cheep a pair of Quantum radio slaves that say they work 500' away (but doubt it)... Could use it to fill a half lit building at night maybe???

Been brainstorming other uses for it... It is a solution looking for a problem it can solve well... Still surprised one found me after all this time... ;-)

Great job on yours!!!!

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

Thanks Steve for the note on the 200B trimmers, I'll carefully give them a spin having some idea of what they do.

Got a lot of 200B/200C, LH2K series heads on the way. After they have been checked out, some known good ones could need another home. Never liked that coiled cord on the LH2, always made the set up clunky and more difficult to use. The newer LH2K lost the coiled cord and Norman revised a few items that appears to make it easier to live with.

Have a Foto project idea for these portable strobe units. I'll try it out with the 35mm film camera first. If it goes good, will need more portable strobe power for the view camera version of this idea.


Bernice

[gary892]

Folks,
I have two Norman 200B's that I used extensively in the 80's and 90's but they have not been used since that time and are completely dead.
I charged the battery and the ready light blinks on the lamp head but they will not fire.



I know a little about electronics, like positive, negative, continuity, voltage and amps. I can also solider but that is the extent of my knowledge.

My question is: would it be a task I could handle to replace the capacitors? I know capacitors can be dangerous because they hold a charge.

If so, where should I order the capacitors from and if possible what is the part number so I can be sure to order the correct ones.

Should I use solider with flux or solider without flux.

OR

Should I bite the bullet and send the 200B's to Holly enterprises?


Thanks for any advise you can share.

By the way, I am a cautious person so I will be careful.

Gary

[LabRat]

Read up on post #32 about the head... If the ready light is on, pack is charged up, but inside the head is a circuit board with 2 parts... Check the green part (trigger coil) to see of all 4 leads are soldered to board and not broken... This happened to one of my heads...

Re-capping is a good idea if unit will have more than light use, and Bernice showed how she did it well... Mine seems newer (2/01 date code) and seems fine, but I will be re-capping in the future before possible heavy use... Note the part in post about if the power transistors at the bottom of the case are running VERY hot, as this means components are in a runaway condition leading to pack failure...

Try another head on it first, and leave pack on for a long time (life of battery charge), then fire it once, then leave on for that charge, recharge, then leave on for at least 10 minutes before firing again, then multi-test flash...

Holly will go over entire flash unit, but he wants to give it a total overhaul, for a $$$ price...

Good luck!!!

Steve K

[gary892]

Read up on post #32 about the head... If the ready light is on, pack is charged up, but inside the head is a circuit board with 2 parts... Check the green part (trigger coil) to see of all 4 leads are soldered to board and not broken... This happened to one of my heads...

Re-capping is a good idea if unit will have more than light use, and Bernice showed how she did it well... Mine seems newer (2/01 date code) and seems fine, but I will be re-capping in the future before possible heavy use... Note the part in post about if the power transistors at the bottom of the case are running VERY hot, as this means components are in a runaway condition leading to pack failure...

Try another head on it first, and leave pack on for a long time (life of battery charge), then fire it once, then leave on for that charge, recharge, then leave on for at least 10 minutes before firing again, then multi-test flash...

Holly will go over entire flash unit, but he wants to give it a total overhaul, for a $$$ price...

Good luck!!!

Steve K

I have tried 3 different flash heads, on each one the ready light comes on but when I press the trigger button there is no flash.
I am not sure what the problem is.
If someone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

Thanks
Gary

Edit:
I don't know why I didn't think of this before now, but I just tried the unit on power setting of 50 and no flash, tried on power setting of 100 and no flash but when I tried power setting of 200 the head responded with a flash. Not once but each time I pressed the trigger button.

So I an deducing the rocker switch for the power settings is bad or maybe it's not that simple.

Ideas?

Thanks

Gary

[LabRat]

You can clean switch contacts in place spraying some electrical contact cleaner in underside of switch while operating switch for a minute...

Brett said that he would clean burnt switches by removing and cleaning in a ultrasonic cleaner, but usually a dirty but non burnt switch will operate after solvent cleaning... Clean all connections you can reach carefully on unit and head... Check trigger voltage by sticking voltmeter leads into sync plug and see if DC voltage is over 31.5V as this is the minimum sync voltage with these...

If you blew a cap, unit would not work and blow internal fuse...

Re-solder trigger coil connections on circuit board inside head, as these seem to come loose over time, maybe not giving you full trigger voltage to flash tube...

Check flash tube glass ends for darkening, as this can indicate tube might be going also...

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

200B has four flash capacitors. To get the three power settings of 50w/s, 100w/s, 200w/s the flash capacitors are switched in groups. One flash capacitor produces 50w/s, two flash capacitors produce 100w/s, four flash capacitors produce 200w/s... This is what the power select switch does. The switch used in the 200B is very robust and durable. The contacts can get pitted and oxidized from being cycles many, many times. Still that switch tends to hang in there. It is more possible the flash capacitors have died which is more likely why no flash on the lower power settings, there was simply not enough energy stored in the flash capacitors to drive the flash tube.

Since this 200B appears to flash at 200w/s, check the light output with an accurate flash meter. Using a standard reflector on the LH2 should produce about f16 at 10ft at ISO 100. Any reading less indicates the flash capacitors are tired or dead.

Regardless, those flash capacitors should be replaced as they are decades past their "best use by date".. specially if the 200b has been sitting un-used for years.
The flash capacitors should be 390 to 510 uF at 500VDC, about $14 each from Digikey or Mouser. Use EXTREME CAUTION when working on a flash unit as the internal voltages are LETHAL. Touching the wrong connection could result in INSTANT DEATH.


Bernice







I don't know why I didn't think of this before now, but I just tried the unit on power setting of 50 and no flash, tried on power setting of 100 and no flash but when I tried power setting of 200 the head responded with a flash. Not once but each time I pressed the trigger button.

So I an deducing the rocker switch for the power settings is bad or maybe it's not that simple.

Ideas?

Thanks
Gary

[Pieter]

I have used Silvino's in Hollywood. A bit funky (he runs the shop from his house, has stuff everywhere) and can be slow, but he did a great job repairing a Hensel head for me a few years ago. If you just need batteries or a simple repair, he might be able to turn it around for you faster than for me--he had to get a new cable. I believe he does repair work for Samy's.

[gary892]

Thanks to Lab Rat and Bernice Loui for all the advise and direction.

Looks like I have some decisions to make, keep the Norman and repair or get rid of it.

Thanks

Gary

[Carsten Wolff]

I love using the 200B. About 10 years ago I got the guy at Litelight to convert it into a 400Ws unit (which means the 200Ws tubes need to be replaced/heads uprated as well) and adapt an old ringflash too while he was at it. it is all now running from 50Ws to 400Ws in 50Ws increments (well, there is a "-50Ws" button on it now anyway) and it is digicam-safe to boot. Great, bulletproof setup and with a Bowens adapter useful anywhere.

[Phil Hudson]

I have a couple of 400B kits from the early 2000s which came with the "Super" battery and charger. The batteries are now almost useless after being left idle for a number of years.

Do any or all of the above posts regarding replacement batteries also apply to the 400B? Even better is there an off-the-shelf battery solution that I could use instead of trying to do it myself to bring the 400B back to life? I'm in the UK so would prefer to source something closer to home if possible.

Thanks in advance.

[LabRat]

I have a couple of 400B kits from the early 2000s which came with the "Super" battery and charger. The batteries are now almost useless after being left idle for a number of years.

Do any or all of the above posts regarding replacement batteries also apply to the 400B? Even better is there an off-the-shelf battery solution that I could use instead of trying to do it myself to bring the 400B back to life? I'm in the UK so would prefer to source something closer to home if possible.

Thanks in advance.

My 200b came with the "super" battery, so I think it is still the 12v battery route... This contained standard Panasonic ni-cads soldered together... The tool replacement ones linked would have higher capacity...

Note different types of batteries require different types of chargers... Presently, I opted for the gel cell types as mine might end up lost on a shelf for too long, but want something that will come back to life after its sleep...

I will go with the ni-cads again when/if strobe will get more than monthly use and need the maximum # of flashes possible...

Yes, your battery pack can be rebuilt with replacements linked in above posts, or built replacements can be purchased (but not cheap)... ;-)

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

"Super Batteries" much about marketing from decades ago when the high capacity (then) sub C size ni-cad batteries appeared on the market. These were made by Sanyo (Japan) and were the first high capacity ni-cad batteries on the market. Their energy storage rating was 1200mA / hr which was high for their time. These were the ni-cads that made the cordless power tool market happen.

Today the sub C-size cell can be had in nickel metal hydride with 4000mA /hr or near three times the energy storage of the original Sanyo high capacity sub C-size ni-cads. These are made in China and in vast-mass and are used in an extremely long list of portable techno devices today. They are essentially a direct fit into the Norman battery packs and chargeable using the oem Norman charger, ideally timed for faster charge (there is risk of over charging causing the batteries to over heat then damaged as the original thermal shut off scheme was marginal in many ways), but slow charge should be easy good.

Suggestion would be to have the Norman "super battery" packs rebuilt with modern replacement batteries. Cost was very moderate, each 4000mA/hr sub C-sized cell cost about $1.70 USD, ten are used per 12 volt battery pack. These replacement batteries should be easy to find on Amazon UK or similar. Unless you're able to weld nickel strips on the batteries to make a replacement battery pack, get the tab_ed cells allowing them to be soldered up into a battery pack. Direct soldering to the individual battery cells runs a very high risk of damaging the seals causing leakage then failure.

Not a lot to say about these Norman portable strobe/flash units as they simply work, are proven reliable and provide consistent light output as needed. 400w/s seems lots, but in the real world of view camera lighting 400w/s is often not nearly enough.


Bernice




I have a couple of 400B kits from the early 2000s which came with the "Super" battery and charger. The batteries are now almost useless after being left idle for a number of years.

Do any or all of the above posts regarding replacement batteries also apply to the 400B? Even better is there an off-the-shelf battery solution that I could use instead of trying to do it myself to bring the 400B back to life? I'm in the UK so would prefer to source something closer to home if possible.

Thanks in advance.

[Bernice Loui]

Fixing up a Norman 200c.

This is the later version of the time proven reliable Norman 200b. This 200c was part of a group of Norman strobe system bits. Inside the 200c battery compartment was a note saying blown fuse, needs repair. No schematic, but some idea of what might go wrong causing the fuse to fail. High on the list were the power FETS used to drive the HV converter transformers. Turns out this guess was correct. One of the four BUZ11A power fets was shorted Drain to Source causing the fuse to fail. The difficult part was extracting all four power fets for replacement.

The power configuration of the 200c is different than the 200b as likely has two sections of HV power conversion which is switched as needed to vary the power output of 50w/s or 100w/s or 200w/s. Two BUZ11A power fets are run together in parallel per HV power conversion section. This also means best to match the two BUZ11A power fets per section. BUZ11A power fets have been around for decades, easily available at low cost. Got a more than a few stuck them on the Tek 576 curve tracer matching up the sets needed.
217688

Made up the power device mounting hardware and heatsink GOooo, put them in. 200c uses the power fet heatsink as part of their mechanical assembly and pcb support, sort of ok design.
217689

Top of the pcb assembly.
217690


Got the 200c back together.. remarkable it works after sitting waiting to be repaired all these decades.

No battery came with this 200c. Had to figure out the batter connections illustrated below. Notable is the battery pack's +12 volt goes direct to the case, battery return are the two spring terminals at the top. They are connected together to run the 200c. Next up, make a battery pack for the 200c.
217691

200c is about half the weight of the 200b with the same light output.

This makes up a good Norman 200 system with more than one LH2 lamp head and reflectors and related accessories.
200w/s is not quite enough for view camera stuff, but the plans for these Norman 200w/s strobe units are in process.


Bernice

[LabRat]

Great job, Bernice!!! Injured but not (too) dead...

I love it when different areas of technology, mechanics, experience, creativity, processes etc come together to provide us with the tools to help us to transcend to create new ideas, new visions, new communications, beauty etc...

Steve K

[Phil Hudson]

Thanks for all the battery advice on the 400B - I'll investigate these suggestions

Phil

[Daniel Unkefer]

I need a bit of help, I want to rebuild my lead acid 200B batteries. Will want to go with Sub C's, I have two good 200B packs, I will want two sets of cells, plus two more for spares. And a good matching charger, maybe two. It would be great if some links would be posted, I don't want to get the wrong things. I don't have a welder for battery tabs, should I get one, or is there another option?

This will get my P&F Hasselblad Ringlight firing up again. New York City Flash Clinic modified it for me back in the day to work with 200B. They were kind of famous they really did a lot of these. A great combination

[Bernice Loui]

Purchase sub C nicad batteries with tabs welded on. This allows soldering to the tabs and not soldering to the battery which which will damage the battery seals. Rebuilt battery pack can be wrapped with shrink tube or vinyl tape..

This is what the OEM norman 200B battery pack looks like inside and how it is connected:
234754

234755

234756

It is a very old style nicad charger using pulsed current to charge the battery. It has a thermal switch to shut off the pulsed current used to charge the battery in rapid charge mode. In slow mode the charge produces moderate pulse current and does not completely rely on the thermal switch to shut off the charge current.

Follow the wiring connection, check for proper battery connections at the connector before connecting the rebuilt battery pack to the 200B.


Bernice





I need a bit of help, I want to rebuild my lead acid 200B batteries. Will want to go with Sub C's, I have two good 200B packs, I will want two sets of cells, plus two more for spares. And a good matching charger, maybe two. It would be great if some links would be posted, I don't want to get the wrong things. I don't have a welder for battery tabs, should I get one, or is there another option?

This will get my P&F Hasselblad Ringlight firing up again. New York City Flash Clinic modified it for me back in the day to work with 200B. They were kind of famous they really did a lot of these. A great combination

[Daniel Unkefer]

Perfect. Thank You Bernice :)