Droopy rear standard on Ebony camera?

[macmx]

I have an Ebony RWS 45 that I bought many years ago that’s now been dusted off and ready to go shoot. However, I noticed that the rear standard seems to be slightly loose, meaning when the bellows are extended the wood seems to droop slightly down, creating an angle (imperceptible to the eye) compared to the front standard, and introducing some play in the camera. The wood hasn’t been damaged and the titanium parts work just fine with no loose screws. I am wondering whether it’s something to worry about in terms of the focus place, or whether these small variances are to be expected with wooden field cameras? This is my only LF camera so I have little experience to go on.

I can of course always check that everything is okay on the ground glass, however since I shoot a lot of architecture, it would be great to know whether the camera was level just be using the spirit levels when setting up and not have to worry too much about an accidental rear tilt (however minor) changing the perspective.

Ebony doesn’t exist anymore so I cannot ask them. Will contact Robert White but thought I would ask here first. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.

[Drew Wiley]

The focus track is relatively short; and if particularly short focus length lenses are involved, very little of the track and its gearing are actually engaged, allowing rear flexing. What I do in such cases is push a little plastic shim in between the camera bed and the wooden part of the focus extension. It can easily be made using a pair of tinsnips from a plastic putty knife, or by buying the kind of tapered plastic shims used for door hinge aligning, found at construction stores.

There is another method that works too; but it involves a minor alteration to the camera itself. I won't outline it here unless it is needed, and you're comfortable about drilling into some of your camera.

[ic-racer]

My 4x5 cameras have adjustable detents on the front tilt. Irrespective of any lack of perpendicularity of the rear standard to the bed, the front detents are set to be parallel the rear standard. This is easily accomplished wth a laser pointer.

[Drew Wiley]

The rear of these cameras can flex despite the detents of both front and rear being engaged. The components themselves are quite rigid, among the very best for wooden cameras of this design. But in short profile, like this wide angle version, very little of the focus track is engaged, so what hangs out the back is not fully supported by the lower bed half. As I already suggested, it's easy to "pinch" the two surface together immovably using a simple shim wedge, so that the upper and lower components can't "rock" apart in a spacing sense. This has nothing to do with linear focus itself, which is secured by the focus tightening knobs. I suspect the issue exists on many other field cameras too; but the cost of owning an Ebony does tend to cause one to expect very precise results. It's a trade-off. Want rigidity of a Sinar? - it comes with the weight and bulk of a Sinar. In this case, it requires a minor tweak.

[Sal Santamaura]

I suggest checking out FAQ #3 here


https://web.archive.org/web/20161111214641/http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/FAQ.html

before making any modifications to the camera.

[Joe O'Hara]

It is possible (even necessary, with humidity changes) to tighten or loosen the fit between the rails on this camera. If you feel that there is any excess play between
the front and back rails, consider giving the phillips-head screws in the titanium plates on the top of the bed a 1/8 or less CW turn. I often do this in the winter time when the usually high relative humidity around here drops to the 20's or lower as the colder weather arrives. This is recommended in the instruction sheet that came with the camera.

You may need to undo that tightening if you are working in high humidity later, i.e., if you find the rails binding up when you try to focus.

FWIW, I have never noticed any slop or misalignment noticeable to the eye (or in the image) with my RW45.

[Drew Wiley]

It's probably a gear/rack issue, independent of humidity, Joe. It's not misalignment either, unless something has been accidentally locked down askew. Gets worse if the back is weighted, like with bulky roll film back. This does not mean Ebony camera are less better built - they're probably the best of all in terms of wooden designs. I think the majority of photographers just don't take note of this particular issue.

But just like Sal cautioned, making an outright modification to a very well thought out design is not wise. Ebony wood is more fussy than mahogany, and distinctly split-prone if not correctly machined and sealed. I'm going on the premise that persons with serious specific skills with these kinds of materials might have the knowledge and correct tools for a hypothetical tweak, but not the average photographer. And that's why I suggested the simple non-marring temporary wedge method instead if necessary.

When longer lenses are being used, there's simply more friction in the gear/rack interface due to more cumulative contact, so it's a non-issue in that case. I personally have an additional custom nylon set screw tightening option as well as the wedge method, but never even use the set screw because the wedge is so easy, in those relatively uncommon cases I actually use wide angle lenses. It's with roll film back weight tugging rear protrusion down that I notice the issue.

[macmx]

Thanks everyone. It seems like all the titanium parts are screwed down pretty tight. I have attached a video, showing what happens. It gets worse as the rear standard is racked out even more. I did have the camera stored (on display) on a shelf for a while with the front and rear standards extended somewhat. I am not wondering whether this has bent the wood out of shape? However, I think that should make it more difficult to rack and not looser?

https://vimeo.com/508781382/b3a36633bb


https://vimeo.com/508781382/b3a36633bb

[GG12]

My SW 23 does the same. Drew's recommendation makes a lot of sense: simple and removable, doesn't impact anything else.

[Sal Santamaura]

I have an Ebony RWS 45 that I bought many years ago that’s now been dusted off and ready to go shoot. However, I noticed that the rear standard seems to be slightly loose...
...I have attached a video, showing what happens...

Wow, that's an incredible amount of play. I own two Ebony cameras, both purchased brand new, and neither one displays anything like the gap seen in your video between their movable sections and the space between their fixed bases and their flat titanium retaining plates with adjustable screws.

None of the wood appears warped, at least as best one can tell from the video. I'm at a loss to explain what caused your problem or how best to correct it. At this point, I'd suggest contacting Richard Ritter for advice on how to proceed.

[Eric Leppanen]

I also own an RSW45 and it behaves much the same way. The front standard has a fair amount of slop as well when racked fully out. Part of this is due to not enough rail remaining in the flatbed at full extension to avoid at least some drooping. Part of this is due to Ebony deliberately leaving a bit of slop in the factory settings to allow the wood to expand in response to increased humidity without the rails binding.

Personally I found the rear standard to be weighty enough that once it drooped into position it tended to stay in place. Ebony and Robert White in the UK jointly developed the camera for entry-level, wide-to-normal focal length applications in landscape and architecture, rigidity at maximum extension was not the design focus. For longer focal lengths Ebony recommended top hat lens boards and also offered an extension back which enabled the RSW to support a 400mm telephoto.

I have owned a variety of Ebony cameras over the years, in my experience they all exhibited some degree of humidity accommodation. The RSW45 is the only one with this much slop.

[Drew Wiley]

I learned about the idiosyncrasies from Ken Bromwell, talking with him in person at a trade show back when he was the first US importer of Ebony. It was many years later I bought an Ebony myself. No regrets. A few minor quirks, but still the best quality line of wooden cameras ever in my opinion.

[eli]

I suggest checking out FAQ #3 here


https://web.archive.org/web/20161111214641/http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/FAQ.html

before making any modifications to the camera.


The screwdriver in this image looks like a "Vessel" brand tool and it may have Japanese Industrial Camera Screws JICS aka simply JIS, which are a cross-point (+) like a Philips, but designed to stay in the screw-head, without the cam-out design feature of the day to day Philips so be careful no to wreck the screw-head or better yet, buy a JIS driver or file the tips down on the Philips so it is more like the JIS tools.

When sunk in wood, such as that camera, there is no a lot of room for error.

This is especially true if you are working on Small and Medium Format lenses and cameras, etc.

Vessel 0,00,000,0000 cross-points are JIS and come in singles and sets, and while I'm at it, Wera slotted screwdrivers are a slimmer blade than Wiha Brand, I have both, and a few PB Swiss slotted drivers. Even Jeweler's flat screwdrivers can be too thick a blade (which surprised the heck out of me) so if buying locally, beware you might want to return them if they do no do the job.

Remember, unless it's listed as a JIS cross-point, it's likely a Philips head tool, which are used in German cameras, etc.

I hope this helps; Amazon carries both large and small JIS Vessel screwdrivers and the other brands I mentioned, including some nice long and extra long small screw and larger drivers as well.

[Sal Santamaura]

The screwdriver in this image looks like a "Vessel" brand tool and it may have Japanese Industrial Camera Screws JICS aka simply JIS, which are a cross-point (+) like a Philips, but designed to stay in the screw-head, without the cam-out design feature of the day to day Philips so be careful no to wreck the screw-head or better yet, buy a JIS driver or file the tips down on the Philips so it is more like the JIS tools.

When sunk in wood, such as that camera, there is no a lot of room for error.

This is especially true if you are working on Small and Medium Format lenses and cameras, etc.

Vessel 0,00,000,0000 cross-points are JIS and come in singles and sets, and while I'm at it, Wera slotted screwdrivers are a slimmer blade than Wiha Brand, I have both, and a few PB Swiss slotted drivers. Even Jeweler's flat screwdrivers can be too thick a blade (which surprised the heck out of me) so if buying locally, beware you might want to return them if they do no do the job.

Remember, unless it's listed as a JIS cross-point, it's likely a Philips head tool, which are used in German cameras, etc.

I hope this helps; Amazon carries both large and small JIS Vessel screwdrivers and the other brands I mentioned, including some nice long and extra long small screw and larger drivers as well.While the screws on some other Japanese cameras I've worked on required those thin-blade drivers, adjusting screws on both my 5x7 and Whole Plate Ebony cameras are compatible with Phillips screwdrivers.

Ironically, screws on both my Phillips cameras are standard slotted types, not Phillips versions. :)

[Drew Wiley]

There have been all kinds of cross-pattern configurations. Other than the miniature versions, sharp-pointed cross drivers and matching screws also exist under the Frearson category as well as Posidrive; a Phillips screwdriver won't work properly for either; and there is even more than one type of Phillips per nominal number size. So far, all the miniature screws I've encountered on my own camera gear have been acceptably matched to Wiha drivers, except for some very thin slots on somewhat larger screws requiring more width and torque than a jewelers' style screwdriver can accommodate, for which I ground thinner the tips of electricians' drivers. But the potential variety gets way more complicated when it comes to power-driven fasteners, which fortunately, wouldn't make sense on anything delicate like a camera anyway. I carried quite a few specialized German drivers and screws back in my distribution days, while an importer down the street had a stunning selection of Japanese hand tools and fasteners. There was also a superb industrial fastener house in the same neighborhood. But I have pretty much everything I personally need for long-haul camera maintenance stashed away in my own shop.

[tgtaylor]

The tolerance between the rear standard and the bed it travels on is too great. It is not possible to bring all tolerance at the point of manufacture to a zero tolerance since then the rear standard would be flush with its bed and “stuck” in place. What is neded is a mechanism to bring the tolerance to zero once the back has been brought into place. My Toyo MII exhibits a similar situation when extending the front standard. In order to move the standard on its stracks it is necessary to unloosen the lock down knob which is dead center with the lock-down plate and standards center of gravity. This necessarily results in a slight tilt of the lens plane (usuall down with an installed lens) but is easily corrected for by simply tighting to lock down knob until the lens plane is perpendicular with the rear. There is no such mechanism visible on your Ebony.