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View Full Version : New article by Stan. Laurenson-Batten: SH 612 Multi-format Roll Film Holder



QT Luong
22-Jan-2006, 22:17
A new article by Stan. Laurenson-Batten has been published:
Shen Hao SH612 Multi-format roll-film back (/sh612.html). Please feel free to leave any constructive comments in this thread.

Patrik Roseen
23-Jan-2006, 03:43
Hi, I have also used the Shen Hao SH612 Rollfilm holder for shooting 6x12 frames. And I recognize everything you say in your article. Especially the problem of reading the film number in the red window (requires a small flashlight when light is low) and also the fogging.

To avoid fogging it is important NOT to remove the darkslide completely. If removed the light will pass right into the film. I have made markings on the slide so that I know when to stop pulling it... for 6x12 there is not much of the slide left in the holder. (I'm probably not the only one who by reflex will pull the slide completely when the right light enters the scenery...)

It is also important to remember to read the frames 1, 3, 5, ..11, for 6x12. (Some people claim you should read 2, 4, 6, but this is wrong since the last picture will be cut)

I also store the filmholder in a small box so that slide does not get pulled out accidently when moving around and make sure not to hold it by the slide.

Overall, I love the pictures from this holder when I get it right!!

Patrik Roséen

Nick_3536
23-Jan-2006, 06:02
Which model is this? The comment on the poorly made casting makes me think it's the older one. He mentions changing formats my calculating something? On mine you just change the mask on the front and start using the new numbers. Assuming you aren't in mid frame no calculating needed. I haven't had any fogging problems. Maybe I'm just lucky.

If it matters I'll look up my model number later.

Nick_3536
23-Jan-2006, 06:03
BTW On Apug we've being trying to encourage Ilford to make the numbers easier to read.

Steve Lewis
23-Jan-2006, 08:53
Hi Guys

I've been using a Shen Hao 6x12 back for approx. 12 months with no problems at all. Mine is the earlier one with the pressed steel clips to hold the back closed, and it came with the 6x9 mask only.

I check it after every trip in the field to make sure nothing has come loose, and, to date, all's been well. No bits dropping off, no light leaks, no problems reading the film frame numbers etc. All in all, it's been well worth the money.

I would assume that their quality checking prcedures are not the best, and that a few 'Friday afternoon jobs' will slip through. A bit like Kiev cameras!

Steve Lewis

www.landscapesofwales.co.uk

Scott Schroeder
23-Jan-2006, 19:24
For the other users...is it really only 6X11?
That would be pretty crappy to not get the long side in full. Is it still a 2:1 ratio of something like 5.6: 11.2?

Nick_3536
24-Jan-2006, 07:50
I have the SH612-BC. I'm not sure if everybody is talking about the same model. The opening on mine is:

54mmX110mm

Patrik Roseen
24-Jan-2006, 16:41
I think we are talking about the same model. Mine is also 55x110mm opening. One more remark about linear fogging that occasionally shows up. I have examined the 'light-blocker' where the dark-slide is inserted and found a quite simple device with black cloth on the side facing the slide and some thin metal 'legs' which is funtioning like a spring. But this is only on one side of the slide on the other side its only the metal frame itself. When I received my holder the 'legs' where not spread wide enough to block the light and I have therefor increased the tension by spreading them further. I still do not trust it enough to remove the darkslide completely.

Stan. Laurenson-Batten
25-Jan-2006, 06:46
Thanks for your feed back.
I think it necessary to add that any fogging that did occur was entirely from the missing screws. Since the missing screws were fitted there has been no problems with fogging, with or without the complete removal of the dark slide.

The calibration method I use is to compensate for the lack of clearness of the frame numbers in the red window.

My model reference is: SH 612 -B: - no 'C' - Unable to find any serial number which I am a little concerned about, I suppose to stamp one on adds to the final cost of the product!

As I said, it does the job after my full dock-yard re-fit, but in fairness should be called SH 611.....

Nick_3536
25-Jan-2006, 07:18
Maybe if you could find a 6x6 camera that actually exposed 6x6. What's the exposed area on a hasselblad? It's still a 6x6. Multiply it be 2 and you get?

Stan. Laurenson-Batten
26-Jan-2006, 07:03
Hasselblad are spot on with their 6X6 and all other formats- as expected.

Mike Kovacs
27-Jan-2006, 05:41
Hasselblad and most MF SLRs/TLRs actually print a 56x56mm frame.

John Mackay
21-Feb-2006, 21:43
As Mike has already pointed out most film size are rounded up or down.

As far as I can recall they're as follows albeit they can vary by
manufacturer:

<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" border="1"
bordercolor="#e1d6c6" cellpadding="2">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>Format</td>
<td>Useable Image Area</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>35 mm</td>
<td>24 x 36 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>6&times;45 cm</td>
<td>56 x 42 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>6&times;6 cm</td>
<td>56 x 56 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>6&times;7 cm</td>
<td>56 x 70 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>6&times;9 cm</td>
<td>56 x 84 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>6&times;12 cm</td>
<td>56 x 112 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>6&times;17 cm</td>
<td>56 x 165 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>5&times;4 inch</td>
<td>95 x 120 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>5&times;7 inch</td>
<td>120 x 170 mm</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>8&times;10 inch</td>
<td>190 x 245 mm</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

The above may well not give the full picture however, as whilst for
example 6x9
film may have actual dimensions of 56mm x 84mm the useable dimensions
may fall to 54mm x 82mm due corner curvature of the film gate. Some
film gates however like the <span style="font-style: italic;">Plaubel
Veriwide 100</span> have pinched corners
at the film gate and therefore permit full use of the captured image
i.e. 56mm x 92mm. An example of this should display below.

http://www.wildframe.net/images/equip/6x9_film_dimensions.jpg

Hope this makes some sense :)

Cheers...John.

Emmanuel BIGLER
22-Feb-2006, 07:06
Hasselblad and most MF SLRs/TLRs actually print a 56x56mm frame.
Hmm.. actually on Hasselblad 6x6 backs the image is 54x54mm. My guess is that on 120 rollfilm with a hassy back (with double film curvature) flim flatness is somewhat improved by "sacrificing" 2 mm with respect to other well-known 6x6 cameras.

David Nardi
19-Mar-2006, 22:23
Has anyboy tried the Cambo 6x12 film back? I've owned mine for almost 3 years now without a single problem. I love it! The frame is also a true 6x12cm measuring 56x112mm. It works on Graflok backs but for ease and speed of use in the field it is also designed to slide into a 4x5 camera just like a regular film holder. No groundglass removal. The feed and take-up spools are located to one side. The film feeds into the holder around a roller and back to the take-up spool. Build quality is superb with a floating pressure plate to accept 120 or 220 film. Film is simple to load and winds to the next frame automatically with a click stop frame counter assembly on the holder itself (no red window). Film is flat, images are sharp.

Are there any dissadvantages? As with anything photographic you can't have it all in one product. Cambo makes a separate holder for each format. No multiple formats like the Sinar or Shen-Hao. Other sizes include 645, 6x7, and 6x9.

Cost may hold some people back. The 6x12 is $800 US. Other formats are $500 US. Not too bad compared to the Sinar.

For those of you who have the budget and 6x12 is the only format your considering to add to your 4x5 kit, I would have a look at the Cambo. I bought mine from Calumet Photographic (www.calumetphoto.com). You can see images of the holder if you don't know what it looks like.

For some sample pans you can check out my website at www.davidnardi.com

Happy shooting!

David

Patrik Roseen
21-Mar-2006, 15:19
Nice pictures David...I especially like the Birch Bark Detail /Patrik

Ray
27-Mar-2006, 17:51
I also use the Shen Hao SH612 Rollfilm holder but only had it for a while now. I take it to be a newer one and have had no problems what so ever with it. It will be a welcome addition to my system this summer when we travel . It is built solid and I see no issues with fogging. It is very resonable at 285.00 new, and I took a long hard look at this back before buying. I just cannot afford to buy different backs for all formats that this one gives and the compactness of using 1 back hiking is a bonus. I must say that 6x12 then 6x9 were my reason to buy and don't see me using the 6x6 or 6x645 much at all.

vinny
6-May-2006, 00:35
I purchased my shen hao 612 holder about 4years ago from badger graphic for $395. It doesn't have a red window, just holes. The foggin from the light can be detrimental. It also didn't come with any masks. I've never gotten a sharp neg from it on my shen hao camera. It's too heavy i believe. 612 negs next to 4x5 negs from the same setup just don't cut it.

paul r w freeman
1-Jul-2006, 14:00
I think everyone who uses this must shoot landscape. Mine only focussed at infinity. I discovered very poor focus alignment so that close up it front focussed rather badly. At the time I was still developing my VC technique so I didnt realise that it was the equipment that was at fault. I blew a lot of film and money before I realised what was going on. It would have been much cheaper to buy the Horseman 6x12 back in the first place. Buy cheap, pay twice as they say.

Nick_3536
1-Jul-2006, 14:26
Eh? The back doesn't focus at all. If you're having focus problems I can't see how the back is at fault.

Patrik Roseen
16-Aug-2006, 08:01
Ohhh Ahhh egghh!!!
I just got some 120-film rolls back from the lab, shot with the ShenHao 6x12 Variable format back and those '*@!&4*!? lightstreaks are back again! I still think the light comes in through the darkslide-slit...even though I did not pull the slide out completely.

Since I am using the holder for handheld photography, I want a solution which does not include having a darkcloth covering the side where the slide runs. Too many things on the camera already.

Are there any suggestions how to create a better light-trap than the one currently on/in the holder today?

Will
5-Oct-2006, 19:00
All the Chinese Roll Film Backs have leaks, reported on various mainland china forum.

ShenHao, DaYi, Gao (Not sure about the name, but this is the cheapest, they also make the 617). Some of the holder get fixed by their owner afters some trail and error.

GPS
6-Oct-2006, 13:14
Ohhh Ahhh egghh!!!

Are there any suggestions how to create a better light-trap than the one currently on/in the holder today?

I'm not familiar with your RFH but is there any way how you can get to the existing light-trap to see it? Can you open it in some way to see it? You could then think of some way to change the light trapping "substance".

GPS
6-Oct-2006, 13:56
Has anyboy tried the Cambo 6x12 film back? I've owned mine for almost 3 years now without a single problem. ...
Are there any dissadvantages? ....

David

I've been shooting on a Cambo 6x12 for about 10 years now. Many people reported problems with Cambo RFHs. I needed to eliminate a light leak at the taking spool end but it was easy done with a black tape. Once I needed to get new parts for the winding mechanism (with great help from a Cambo repairman who sent me the parts) but after that there were no more problems. Actually I like it - I got familiar with it during my repairs and I know what it wants - no forced winding.

Patrik Roseen
9-Oct-2006, 11:58
I'm not familiar with your RFH but is there any way how you can get to the existing light-trap to see it? Can you open it in some way to see it? You could then think of some way to change the light trapping "substance".

Thanks for your concern GPS.

I do not own any digital camera, so I can not publish any picture of the 'lighttrap'.
I tried explaning it once but I do not think people understood what I was trying to say ;-)

(I was actually going to buy a digital camera 18 months ago when I happened to read about LF-photography and decided to go the analog LF route instead...and although I have 2.5 decades til retirement I wish I had discovered LF much earlier!)

Patrik Roseen
9-Oct-2006, 12:01
All the Chinese Roll Film Backs have leaks, reported on various mainland china forum.

ShenHao, DaYi, Gao (Not sure about the name, but this is the cheapest, they also make the 617). Some of the holder get fixed by their owner afters some trail and error.

Will, do they say anything about how they fix the lightleaks on those mainland china forum websites?

GPS
9-Oct-2006, 12:23
Couldn't you cover the black cloth in the light trap you're describing with black flocked paper? Just a try... There must be a way how you can make it better.

Stan. L-B
9-Oct-2006, 12:54
To all who may be concerned: My SH 612 is now in light proof order. The light trap can be made more efficient by using one half inch wide velvet ribbon at both ends of the case. Secure with evo-stick. I have had no problems since.

GPS
9-Oct-2006, 13:16
That's what I thought. Self adhesive flocked paper would have the same effect.

dyuhas
31-Oct-2006, 19:59
I had an intermittent problem with light streaks. I solved it by pulling the dark slide out under the camera's dark cloth.

Dave

vinny
1-Nov-2006, 09:45
Eh? The back doesn't focus at all. If you're having focus problems I can't see how the back is at fault.

The distance of the film plane to the lens needs to be the same as the distance to the ground glass or you won't get sharp images. Mine was off by quite a bit so i sent it back and got the newer model shen hao and the results look better under the loupe. I haven't made enlargments as of yet. I also tore the red gel window out since i had to take the back off to read the numbers. My original holder didn't have a red window and i had no problems with fogging from that. I did have fogging from the shitty light trap. You could hold the holder up with the slide out and see through to the other side! The new one is better.

vinny

Nick_3536
1-Nov-2006, 09:56
Paul said his only focussed infinity. Which would imply the film plane difference changes with focus.

Stephen Lorber
6-Jul-2007, 20:22
I have a DaYi 617 back. It has no light leaks and seems aligned properly with the film plane. I sometimes leave the darkslide out for a long time waiting for the wind to die and it's still without leaks. Perhaps I was just lucky and got a good one. I had a problem with one side of the negs being out of focus, but discovered that the two levers for tilt and rise on the back standard of my Linhof TK were keeping the film back from seating properly. I filed two grooves in the back and now it's fine. I had a Shen Hoa 4X5 that had the same problem - one side out of focus. I finally discovered that I couldn't reliably lock the back standard swing/shift control and it would drift off. I sent it back to Badger Graphic and they worked on it, but it still drifted. Chinese cameras and roll film backs are inexpensive, but I suspect they lack quality control and the old saw about having to buy a cheap tool twice may apply.

Jiri Vasina
7-Jul-2007, 03:41
I also have (a relatively new - 4months old) DaYi 612 back. With all those rolls I shot, there is no light leak detected, the focus seems very good. I am very content with it and would recommend it to anyone (and it was very cheap, I paid &#163;125 incl. shipping from China :) )

Stan. L-B
8-Jul-2007, 08:42
It seems we could well be referring to different roll film holders from China.

I have only examined the SH 612 as detailed in my report.

Thanks to those who have contributed to this thread in an effort to highlight possible problems with roll film holders from the far east.

Ted Harris
8-Jul-2007, 09:01
Today, Chinese manufacturing companies are capable of producing even the most complex mechanical and electronic items to virtually any degree of precision, as long as the buyer is willing to pay for it. Thus, you need to be very careful when buying products that seem to be the same. Quite frequently, they are not. Products manufactured by and for Shen-Hao are generally quite good bu tthey are manufactured to meet a particular need at a specific price point so don't expect the same precision or quality you get from Horseman or Linhof. OTOH, some companies who use Chinese manufacturing facilities and closely monitor products seem to get much better quality than you would expect; Fotoman is a shining example.

Jiri Vasina
8-Jul-2007, 12:03
Stan, yes we are talking about different models - at least the label is different, but visually the Shen Hao SH612 and the DaYi 612 models seem very close to be similar. I also think that the chinese are continually changing their designs and manufacturing, so what was written some months ago could be very different today (to the better or the worse).

Asher Kelman
7-Mar-2008, 10:56
Has anyboy tried the Cambo 6x12 film back? I've owned mine for almost 3 years now without a single problem. I love it! The frame is also a true 6x12cm measuring 56x112mm. It works on Graflok backs but for ease and speed of use in the field it is also designed to slide into a 4x5 camera just like a regular film holder. No groundglass removal. The feed and take-up spools are located to one side. ...........For some sample pans you can check out my website at www.davidnardi.com

Hi David,

Your website is impressive and your description of your approach to photgraphy in revisiting and getting ahead of chance is superb. I hope the sales pay off your careful and dedicated approach of doing everything to the final print yourself.

1. Didn't find a lot of 6x12 swhots. I wonder why you don't find more pano format shots to take as this device would seem to be very easy to use. Maybe you just don't show them or I missed them. Landscape seem to len themselves to wide shots and 6x12 matches more closely our vision whereas 4x5 is simply a derivative of how a taditional large standard piece of paper can be cut up without wasting.

2. For me this 6x12 holder it would allow bracketing instead of a ND filter to combine shots. Can you do this with masking in the darkroom?

3. How long do you have to let a film settle to get rid of the curves from the roll and taking the picture?

Asher