Chemical storage question

[_Karl]

Will developing chemicals deteriorate if stored in dark but not "light-proof" containers? In particular I'm looking at Kahlua bottles, both glass and plastic and Meyers Rum bottles.
Probably answered somewhere I haven't found yet but I'm new at this and don't want to start by screwing up.
Thank you
_Karl

[Mark Sampson]

Light isn't the problem, oxidation is. Developers are the chemicals most affected- if you're only working occasionally, store those in glass.
Stop bath, fixers, etc., no need to worry. Captain Obvious will tell you to clean the bottles well first, and clearly label them with the contents and date mixed.

[Wayne]

dark is dark is dark

[Kevin Crisp]

It depends on what the chemical is. The manufacturers typically have their own data on this, which tends to be conservative. In general, as Mark suggests, the lack of air in the container makes a big difference. I bought a bunch of dark brown glass bottles (cheap) from specialty bottle in Seattle. My experience has been as follows:

1. Dektol. Will keep at least 6 months. When it goes, it goes and the color turns intense coffee-like brown, with some precipitate that looks like coffee grounds in the bottle.
2. Mixed Kodak rapid fixer. Good for at least 5 months, could be longer. Could be shorter depending on how many times you've used it and put it back in the bottle. When it goes it will have a rotten egg smell and precipitate. When you start seeing white dots
in it (that can be removed with filter funnel) you are very close to the end
3. D76 stock. Good for 6 months unless it is really warm in the darkroom. Hard to tell when it goes bad by just eye balling it.
4. Mixed Kodak "fixer" aka "general fixer." 2 months, maybe more, but you're pushing it.
5. Kodak F6 formula, see above.
6. Kodak D23 formula, jury still out on this one I just started using it. Should be similar to D76, I would think.
7. Acetic Acid stop bath, mixed. 6 months, perhaps much more.
8. Rodinol lots of posts here about it lasting ages but that has not been my experience. Once it goes from purple to brown I've had trouble, as in a complete lack of activity. Even in full, tightly stoppered, refrigerated bottles mine does not last years and years.
9. HC110 the old yellow syrup lasts forever, even in a bottle mostly filled with air. If it turns a little orange on the edges, it is still fine. The new formula, I have not tried.
10. Xtol at least 3 months

[_Karl]

Thank you Mark and Kevin. I think I'm about to mix some developer and store it in my bottles.
Wayne, you bring up an interesting point. :rolleyes:
_Karl

[Alan9940]

I store all mixed stock developers in brown glass bottles either topped off or with a squirt of Protectan, once I start using it. When the stock reaches the level of the next downsize bottle, I fill to the top and work from there. Working fixer is stored in plastic Datatainers and used a few times, then tossed. Since I've never stored a working solution of fixer until it goes bad, I have no idea how long it might last. Stop bath, etc, is mixed fresh each time and tossed.

[Randy]

I had stored Dektol in 16 oz plastic translucent bottles, filled all the way to the top, and I mean all the way to the top. Bottles sat in my basement for 14 years. A couple years ago I made some contact prints from 8X10 negs and opened one of the bottles, diluted the dev. 1:1 - prints came out fine. The Dektol was not discolored at all.

[RandyB]

Oxygen is the enemy of developers. Glass bottles/jugs are great till you drop one on a concrete floor. If you are super careful then go for it. For 30+ years I have used 2 liter soda bottles with great success for paper developer. I use 1 liter soda bottles for film developer that I scratch mix. Stop, fix and hypo clear also go in 2 ltr bottles just because it is handy. In the past I did use 3 liter bottles but they are no longer made for soda. Do not use milk, orange juice or distilled water jugs for developers as the plastic lets air diffuse through.

[tgtaylor]

I've been storing 5L of stock Xtol and 1 gallon of Dektol in tanks with floating lids for about 20 years now with excellent results. The Xtol will last for at least 6 months if mixed with distilled water and the cost of just $1 a liter (1:1) is hard to beat. However with the current Sino Promise screw-up I temporarily (?) switched to ID-11 and last week purchased 1-L locally at ~$7.00 to try out. It raises the 1-liter cost to $3.50 but it is much quicker to mix than the 5L of Xtol. For storage I used 2 500mL brown glass bottles that I got from B&S. One I filled to the cap and the other was put to use right away. The results were quite good and the cost, about 70 cents per negative (8x10) compared to 20 cents with Xtol, still manageable. The 5-liter ID-11 would bring the per negative cost down to 34 cents but only the 1-liter pack is available locally.

[Wayne]

Oxygen is the enemy of developers. Glass bottles/jugs are great till you drop one on a concrete floor. If you are super careful then go for it. For 30+ years I have used 2 liter soda bottles with great success for paper developer. I use 1 liter soda bottles for film developer that I scratch mix. Stop, fix and hypo clear also go in 2 ltr bottles just because it is handy. In the past I did use 3 liter bottles but they are no longer made for soda. Do not use milk, orange juice or distilled water jugs for developers as the plastic lets air diffuse through.


Where I live the good OJ (not from concentrate) comes in #1 PET/PETE, the same as soda bottles. I use OJ bottles and chemicals last for years once filled and unopened. They also allow you to squeeze out air if they aren't quite full, and they are wide mouth so you don't need funnels.

[Bill Kumpf]

A trick for glass bottles is to add glass marbles to bring the liquid to the top. This removes air. The marbles are reusable. Soda bottles with air squeezed out works. This was recommended by Bruce Barlow in his Large Format classes and has worked well for me.

[Wayne]

I can't imagine why people would still use glass and go to all the added trouble of buying and adding (and later washing) marbles, or inert gasses, when #1 PET/PETE is everywhere in most sizes except very small, doesn't break (not even when it freezes) and is just superior in every way. (some claim it doesn't work long term, but that's not true...it will preserve developers for at least several years) To each his own though. I only use glass for very small amounts of solutions that aren't very susceptible to oxidation like my 10% KBr or Benzotriazole, things like that, where I don't have to worry about keeping them full.

[Bill Kumpf]

That is the type of question my kids ask when I set up the 4x5 with film when I have a nice DSLR on the shelf. Glass is what I have and it works. PET/PETE is another option.

[Ulophot]

One more question for you PETE experts, since I haven't tried it. Two L would be a good size for my selenium toner and would allow visual inspection for precipitates (I know about filtering it). Any issue there?

Thanks.

[Wayne]

59 oz Orange Juice bottles are just a bit shy of 2 liters when you fill them to the top.

[Wayne]

That is the type of question my kids ask when I set up the 4x5 with film when I have a nice DSLR on the shelf. Glass is what I have and it works.

That's as good a reason as any to use it. Glass also works well for larger volumes, if you print large. I still use my gallon size glass bottles for hauling fix to the photo shop for silver recovery, and occasionally when I mix up 10 liter batches of RA chemicals. The only gallon size plastics I can find are HDPE although I just used 3 year old RA Blix that was stored in one and it worked good as new.

[Keith Fleming]

It is embarrassing to admit this, but decades ago when I was a grad student living in a cheap apartment, I learned the hard way not to store my chemicals in my closet in re-used milk jugs. The jugs readily leak. That ruined my beloved old trunk on which the jugs rested. A lesson learned that I have never forgotten.

[Ulophot]

Anyone have an answer on this?


One more question for you PETE experts, since I haven't tried it. Two L would be a good size for my selenium toner and would allow visual inspection for precipitates (I know about filtering it). Any issue there?

Thanks.

[Kevin Crisp]

I agree the orange juice bottles are quite nice and sturdy. I've put solvents and brake fluid in them and they held up fine. I don't reuse selenium toner so can't help with your question.

[Wayne]

I'm no chemical engineer but don't know why it wouldn't work. I've used them for Ilfochrome bleach. I rarely use selenium either, I think I've bought one bottle in my life

[Drew Wiley]

I only trust real glass and dedicated lab caps when it comes to mixed developers. If you want to determine compatibility between various SPECIFIC plastics and chemical solutions, just go to a lab supply catalog or website (LSS is a good one). Thin camera-store style recycled-poly containers are close to useless for anything; soda bottles would be better - ordinary Coca Cola is itself corrosive, Mountain Dew is downright weapons grade.

[Ulophot]

Weapons grade. I love it. (Your usage, not the drink.)