Intrepid 4x5 as a permanent enlarger? [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

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PiratePhD

6-Jan-2021, 04:10

Tin Can

6-Jan-2021, 05:48

Please add your general location

Many 4X5 enlargers are available

& welcome to LFPF

Oslolens

6-Jan-2021, 06:02

No, sell the camera. The set can be used with a rail camera which is much stiffer, or an enlarger.

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

Louis Pacilla

6-Jan-2021, 06:07

Would the Intrepid with their enlarger kit be a good permanent solution as a enlarger?

Thanks! No

I Join Randy Moe in Welcoming you to the forum

Exploring Large Format

6-Jan-2021, 06:40

Corran

6-Jan-2021, 07:06

Your profile doesn't include a location. I suggest you add it - someone might contact you from here. *edit: just saw the above. Make them an offer?

I bought my first enlarger from a somewhat local person who was on this forum. Paid a decent price for it, but it was a good kit and I still use it. I have bought or been given many enlargers since, and have given away many myself.

Be patient and you will find one. If you already had the Intrepid enlarger system, you could adapt it to an enlarger as sometimes heads are hard to find.

I suppose in the case of a horizontal enlarger, the Intrepid could make sense with a simple custom table attachment, but I wouldn't want to futz with a tripod trying to get perfectly perpendicular every time with a vertical setup. It's great that some can get into darkroom printing this way though, so I support the general idea, but I greatly prefer my large darkroom setup. But not everyone has a large basement like me.

PiratePhD

6-Jan-2021, 07:12

Please add your general location

Many 4X5 enlargers are available

& welcome to LFPF

Thanks!

I am in Switzerland, not sure that's gonna be helpful since most people here are probably US based.

There are two Durst Laborator 138 on our local "Craigslist" but one of them (about $650) only has the 35mm and MF condensers and the other one is about $1100.
TBH they might not even fit in my darkroom because the ceiling is pretty low.

PiratePhD

6-Jan-2021, 07:37

I have the Intrepid MK4, but also two other LF cameras. I love the MK4 for all that it is. But it isn't for me for every situation.

I had the Intrepid Enlarger Kit, and recently sold it. It was my intro to dark room. Worked fabulously, truly. But then scored a Beseler 45MX II Enlarger for free on Craigslist (plus tons of other valuable darkroom accessories). Also separately scored an 8 foot Stainless Steel darkroom sink...for free. Craigslist is amazing for darkroom finds. Patience, then being ready to jump, can work wonders.

Happy to now have a permanently installed enlarger in my garage/ darkroom/studio.

If I didn't have that space, then I'd have never sold the Intrepid Kit.

And, having just gotten a 5x7 back for my Sinar, I'm anticipating that teased-up Intrepid 5x7 Enlarger Kit! [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

I say permanent but I'd probably still be on the look out for a dedicated enlarger.
Just that if I had a second 4x5 camera, the Intrepid would stay in the darkroom.

But I'm glad to hear that the Intrepid Kit is decent enough.
I like working in the darkroom but only being able to do contact prints with 4x5 and having to use 35mm or MF for large prints feels kinda backwards.
That's why I wanted to have at least something working in my darkroom.

koraks

6-Jan-2021, 08:40

Thanks!

I am in Switzerland, not sure that's gonna be helpful since most people here are probably US based.

There are two Durst Laborator 138 on our local "Craigslist" but one of them (about $650) only has the 35mm and MF condensers and the other one is about $1100.
TBH they might not even fit in my darkroom because the ceiling is pretty low.

Europe seems a little more challenging when it comes to finding large format enlargers. Nevertheless, in my experience, something attractive pops up once in a while. Given where you are, Durst is indeed your best (most likely) bet. There's a lot of 138's out there; 1200's as well, but less so. I had the luck to be gifted a 138 a few years ago by someone who had 3 or 4 and had serious trouble getting rid of them - even for free. I think he ended up throwing 2 of them away in the end. Getting the condensors is a little tricky, but especially the 240 condensors (the ones you'd use for 5x7" and that are also usable for 4x5") are fairly common.

I'd just keep an eye on your local trading/second hand platform. This is something that requires a little patience, but with good chances of success.

Can't comment on your question about using an Intrepid as an enlarger. It'll undoubtedly work, but also undoubtedly be a rather compromised solution. Especially if you compare it to something as solid and functional as a 138.

Bernice Loui

6-Jan-2021, 09:24

While an enlarger is essentially a view camera inverted there are a long list of realities using a view camera as an enlarger is a really BAD idea.

~Set up stability, how can any view camera be set up as an enlarger and remain stable?

~Film in film holder to be projected to the base board alignment, this is absolutely critical if projected images to the base board are have degree of definition.

~Film holder, sheet film can and often does not sit flat in the film holder as prints are being made. If a view camera is used as a enlarger what kind of film holder will be used?

~Film holder to base board distance must be easily adjustable and often tweaked to size the projected image as needed.

~Will there be enough distance between projection film holder to base board?

~View cameras are designed to be focused from the ground glass area. This will put the focusing mechanism is a very awkward place when used as an enlarger.

~Light source, what kind of light source will be used with the view camera as an enlarger?

~The viewing ground glass could be a light source problem.

~Light source leaks, if there are significant light leaks with the connection between light source to converted view camera, this can fog print paper and...!

This list easily continues on. IMO, get a proper enlarger, and yes one of the best would be a Durst 138 and it allows projections of sheet film to 5x7
13x18cm. What is most important with Durst 138 ownership is the film carrier. These can be difficult to come by these days and absolutely essential for proper function of the 138. Condensers are not that difficult, or the head can be easily converted to diffusion or replaced with a color head as needed. The 138 chassis is entirely modular and alterable in many ways. Durst or DeVere are the enlarges to own all others are simply not as good.
Once either enlarger has been used extensively and owned for some years and MANY prints made the inherent design goodness of the DeVere or Durst becomes apparent.

Bernice

Bernice Loui

6-Jan-2021, 09:26

Contact prints can be done with nothing more fancy as a bare light bulb with a on-off switch and a contact printing frame.

Bernice

I like working in the darkroom but only being able to do contact prints with 4x5 and having to use 35mm or MF for large prints feels kinda backwards.
That's why I wanted to have at least something working in my darkroom.

Tin Can

6-Jan-2021, 09:43

Just keep looking local and talking to everybody about Large Format

and your dire need for an enlarger

go to photo shops of any kind

tell old people

beat the street

I did that 10 years ago and stuff keeps coming

I have had people join this forum just to give me gear and supplies, they found it in a basement, etc

Your country has oodles of gear

Luis-F-S

6-Jan-2021, 10:19

Jeroen

6-Jan-2021, 10:25

If you can't find a decent enlarger in Switserland, try a French forum with lots of used gear: http://www.galerie-photo.info/forumgp/list.php?6 or a German forum: https://grossformatfotografie.de/board/18-an-und-verkauf/.

By the way, you can lower the baseboard of a Durst 138, so even if your ceiling isn't very high, you can stil make huge enlargements. According to the user manual the column measures 2080mm, so that's all the ceiling height you need.

Bernice Loui

6-Jan-2021, 10:44

The head of the 138 can be tilted to 90 degrees allowing it to be used as a horizontal enlarger. The foot base has wheels with a groove. These grooves can work with a track to allow the 138 to roll into position with accuracy if needed.

Not only does the base board drop, it has a locking ball joint allowing precise alignment between film holder to enlarger head optimizing lens performance and print image quality.

Space wise, any table top enlarger cannot utilize the height potential of a floor standing enlarger as the base board drop optimized the available darkroom space for the enlarger. Distance between base board to film holder is limited on a table top enlarger, floor standing enlargers have much lesser of this limitation.

If overall height of the 138 is a real problem, replace the condenser head with a modern LED or similar diffusion head.. which is not that difficult to do. This could reduce the overall heigh of the 138 by about 10" or 250mm.

More very useful features no enlarger converted view camera can easily achieve.

Bernice

Tin Can

6-Jan-2021, 11:58

I never found a 138, but did look hard, as they are very compact in floor space

5 years ago I had 3 10x10 enlargers set up and running beside 2 4X5 Beseler, 1 MX & 1 CB7 on the very nice special AdJust a Table Beseler (https://www.adorama.com/be8540.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA3NX_BRDQARIsALA3fIKzQgdxAmt_eIkvGj1YRCxmf0dDxJIl6J8ev8yEeirujPfj1am8ypMaApJOEALw_wcB&utm_source=adl-gbase) made for both, each different

The FOTAR 10X10 a heavy monster had a footprint not much wider than the 4X5 it was much taller, but my ceiling was over 11 feet. Very hard to move anywhere and I needed major help twice

My point is, look for ALL enlargers, not just one special thing, many are customized, and perhaps better!

My current favorite is a customized Beseler 45V-XL Enlarger (https://www.adorama.com/be854502.html) wall mounted with 10X10 Arista Conversion DIY by a very famous photographer

I drove 1200 miles RT for it and somehow got it on my wall, with a winch

Delfi_r

6-Jan-2021, 14:17

I have two 138, one came from Bäsel and was really cheap, two years ago. Wait a little be patient. The enlarger doesn't need more than a normal ceiling clearance. If you wait some more perhaps you'll find a good 4x5 enlarger. In Europe are pricey because people think they fit in a flat..... If you want to print GF sheets the enlarger is not the most of space needed.

Yes the Durst 138 can print horizontally, there is a special tube to do it properly, I can send you the data (I own it, it came with the second Durst 138)

Luis-F-S

6-Jan-2021, 17:02

No

I Join Randy Moe in Welcoming you to the forum

Not just No, but Hell NO!!!! I've given two Dursts S-138 away, and still have the SM-183. Look around, you'll find one!

wenzlern

18-Jan-2021, 06:13

I have had people join this forum just to give me gear and supplies, they found it in a basement, etc

Well that's my cue, just joined after reading your post ;). I have an L138 that is looking for a home (Zurich, Switzerland). PiratePHD, check your PM's, I'll send you my phone then we can figure out if it is a good fit.

best,
Nils

Roberto Nania

18-Jan-2021, 06:56

I currently have an Intrepid 4x5 (mk 4) but I'm thinking of upgrading to a Chamonix 45-F2 at some point.

I have also been looking for a 4x5 enlarger but haven't been successful in finding a good deal.

Would the Intrepid with their enlarger kit be a good permanent solution as a enlarger?

Thanks!

Hello Pirate,

I had the Intrepid 4x5 (shortly after sold for a Chamonix) but not the enlarger kit.
It is not easy to get a 4x5 enlarger in Europe as it is in US but I think that if you are patient enough it will pop-up some good deal (maybe it will take few months).
I am in the same need and I'm waiting patiently for a good Laborator 1200 or maybe an Omega. Actually, there is a Laborator 1200 from Germany on ebay 1500€ +300€ shipping, not for my pockets, I know I can find one at half the price in Italy in few months.
De Vere and Beseler are too scarce to hope to find one in EU but maybe you're a lucky guy ;)

Drew Wiley

19-Jan-2021, 13:34

How low a ceiling do you actually have? The Durst 138 enlarger chassis is highly desirable, even if it takes awhile to assemble all the needed extra accessories. If you're not doing color printing, something like a cold light could be adapted above the negative stage with very little extra height above the main column, or even no extra height. You don't necessarily need to use the dedicated condenser head.

LabRat

19-Jan-2021, 14:09

Of course, a dedicated enlarger is ideal, if you just make one size prints without cropping, you can use a camera/lightsource/good copy stand to enlarge on... I didn't always have a 4X5 enlarger set-up, but used a old SG/Graphlarger/stand that was used for book publishing projects and worked well... The nice thing was the rig was portable, and can fit in a suitcase... And slower/harder to use... But you can get into its groove... A really good copy stand will help a lot...

But getting the camera well aligned can be tricky but possible
..

PiratePhD

25-Jan-2021, 01:44

Thank you everyone for your answers.

Like a lot of you have said, I just needed patience.

I found a LPL 7450 with a dichroic color light source for around $300 and immediately canceled my Intrepid order.
I had to take the color mixer apart and clean it because the lubricants had solidified but it works perfectly now.

The only thing was, I though it was missing the 4x5 diffuser and quickly bought one on ebay, but then found it among all the accessories. Oh well.

With the enlarger I also got two analog Macbeth densitometers (one for film and I'm guessing the other for prints, if that's a thing?).
Does anyone have any resources on how to use them? It'd be really interesting to test some of my most used film stocks.

Thanks,
PiratePhD

Tin Can

25-Jan-2021, 05:21

A bargain

For reference https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/90219-REG/Omega_209457_LPL_4550XLG_4x5_Color.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA9bmABhBbEiwASb35Vy9bjDNTH9kv2uTBA9jERhfOb_XvNaS6D3Q-zkNoMfdEr5GVridIvRoCXOkQAvD_BwE

Luis-F-S

25-Jan-2021, 16:37

Thank you everyone for your answers.

Like a lot of you have said, I just needed patience.

I found a LPL 7450 with a dichroic color light source for around $300 and immediately canceled my Intrepid order.

The only thing was, I though it was missing the 4x5 diffuser and quickly bought one on ebay, but then found it among all the accessories. Oh well.

With the enlarger I also got two analog Macbeth densitometers (one for film and I'm guessing the other for prints, if that's a thing?).
Does anyone have any resources on how to use them? It'd be really interesting to test some of my most used film stocks.

Thanks,
PiratePhD

Congrats, the LPL is a wonderful enlarger! I have two of them. If you pm me your Email, I'll send you a paper on the transmission densitometer in practical use. Which model did you get and is it linear? i.e. does it work?

PiratePhD

26-Jan-2021, 07:03

Congrats, the LPL is a wonderful enlarger! I have two of them. If you pm me your Email, I'll send you a paper on the transmission densitometer in practical use. Which model did you get and is it linear? i.e. does it work?

It's a TD-102 I think. I haven't had the time or opportunity to try it out and my darkroom is at my mom's house, so I'll have to check it on the weekend.
I found a manual for it though and it says calibration is only required if I change any of the components. But I'm not sure I have the calibration step tablet anyways.