Is it possible to pre wash photo paper?

[DannyTreacy]

Hi all,

Bit of a left field question I think but bear with me. Im going to be doing some photograms with black and white rc and fb paper.

I’m putting various liquids in contact with the paper that will then be the thing that makes the image on the photogram. The liquids will all be of different types and consistencies so I want to avoid them from contaminating the developer bath. So I wondered if it is possible to expose the paper to light with the liquid on it, which will form the image, then to wash the liquid off in a water bath, then to develop the paper as normal.

Any thoughts on potential problems with this?

I prewash my film prior to development so I thoughts perhaps I could also do this with paper?

Thanks.

Danny.

[Willie]

You can "pre-wash" or wash off your liquids. Some will most likely have soaked in a bit and no matter the "pre-wash" they will have an effect on development.

Pre soaking negatives is a normal practice.

Water bath during development is a normal practice, at least for some photographers and some papers.

Try it and keep track of your results so you can work towards control with it.

[DannyTreacy]

You can "pre-wash" or wash off your liquids. Some will most likely have soaked in a bit and no matter the "pre-wash" they will have an effect on development.

Pre soaking negatives is a normal practice.

Water bath during development is a normal practice, at least for some photographers and some papers.

Try it and keep track of your results so you can work towards control with it.

Thanks for your response. Good to hear that pre washing the prints is possible, I suspect it will be required with the fb paper as it’s more absorbent than rc.

I always use several water baths after fixing so I’m familiar with it but have not heard of pre washing when printing.

Thanks.

[afotandolaciudad]

Maybe animal specimens in formaldehyde... Sorry my curiosity [emoji12]

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[jp]

Maybe if you don't want the liquid on the paper to contaminate the chemicals, put a sheet of mylar or other thin plastic sheet over the paper when being exposed.

[Doremus Scudder]

Maybe if you don't want the liquid on the paper to contaminate the chemicals, put a sheet of mylar or other thin plastic sheet over the paper when being exposed.

... or glass. You might get a halo effect around the liquids that could be interesting. The more collimated the light source (think point-source or condensers), the less halo effect.

Pre-washing your paper before developing won't hurt it.

Best,

Doremus

[afotandolaciudad]

Maybe if you don't want the liquid on the paper to contaminate the chemicals, put a sheet of mylar or other thin plastic sheet over the paper when being exposed.Good point. A carefully located thin layer of transparent kitchen film could work.

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[DannyTreacy]

Thanks for the replies all!

[John Layton]

Just to note...that I've had problems in attempting to pre-soak Ilford Multigrade Classic FB, giving very uneven results. From what I can see, what happened here is that the pre soak interfered with developer uptake. I also have a gut feeling that this particular paper (which I feel is otherwise a great product) may have more issues with pre-soaking than would other FB papers. I say this because of what looks like an "extra" surface coating layer, which is slightly yellow in color, visible on the dry, unexposed paper. Just a hunch...mind you.

I'd also done an amount of experimenting in the past with pre-soaking papers in developer, squeegeeing off excess developer, laying flat on a glass easel, then exposing to various amounts of light - interrupting this to allow for partial development prior to making a further exposure...even multiple exposures. The idea here was to do a partial reversal...allowing the partially developed areas to partially mask from additional light. While some of the results were quite nifty...I stopped doing this because, well, "nifty" just didn't cut it.

In your case...I might worry about the various liquids you want to use, depending upon their compositions, colors, densities, and other characteristics, might indeed interfere with later development in some way(s). Not saying you shouldn't try this (direct application) anyway - because who knows and/or you may like these effects.

But I would have to agree that placing some protective, otherwise clear plastic (saran wrap, etc.) over the top of the dry paper...and applying the liquids to this, might be the best procedure. Keep in mind, though, that unless you are very careful to thoroughly smooth out the protective plastic layer, you'd be likely to see some interesting artifacts from whatever waviness or creases might otherwise exist. You might like these artifacts, but then again maybe not.

[Jeroen]

If you're worried about contamination, use small quantities of one-shot paper developer and apply with a fresh sponge. The sponge method worked for me when I made 100x150cm prints and couldn't find (let alone afford) similar sized trays.

[DannyTreacy]

Just to note...that I've had problems in attempting to pre-soak Ilford Multigrade Classic FB, giving very uneven results. From what I can see, what happened here is that the pre soak interfered with developer uptake. I also have a gut feeling that this particular paper (which I feel is otherwise a great product) may have more issues with pre-soaking than would other FB papers. I say this because of what looks like an "extra" surface coating layer, which is slightly yellow in color, visible on the dry, unexposed paper. Just a hunch...mind you.

I'd also done an amount of experimenting in the past with pre-soaking papers in developer, squeegeeing off excess developer, laying flat on a glass easel, then exposing to various amounts of light - interrupting this to allow for partial development prior to making a further exposure...even multiple exposures. The idea here was to do a partial reversal...allowing the partially developed areas to partially mask from additional light. While some of the results were quite nifty...I stopped doing this because, well, "nifty" just didn't cut it.

In your case...I might worry about the various liquids you want to use, depending upon their compositions, colors, densities, and other characteristics, might indeed interfere with later development in some way(s). Not saying you shouldn't try this (direct application) anyway - because who knows and/or you may like these effects.

But I would have to agree that placing some protective, otherwise clear plastic (saran wrap, etc.) over the top of the dry paper...and applying the liquids to this, might be the best procedure. Keep in mind, though, that unless you are very careful to thoroughly smooth out the protective plastic layer, you'd be likely to see some interesting artifacts from whatever waviness or creases might otherwise exist. You might like these artifacts, but then again maybe not.

Thanks for your informative response, that’s really helpful as I was intending to use some Ilford fb classic as a test, as I have some already. I’ll try this and rc too, I may we’ll go down the colour paper route but I’ll try b&w first.

The element of contact is vital so I won’t be using Mylar though I have lots of this for wet scanning. I’ll just have to see what the results are and go with the process over the aesthetics. I do want to keep the development as clear if pollution as possible though so I think I’ll need to have a pre wash stage in place.

If you think fb is more problematic then at least I know what to look out for with that.

I also have warm tone fb paper, do you know if that was problematic also?

Thanks.

[DannyTreacy]

If you're worried about contamination, use small quantities of one-shot paper developer and apply with a fresh sponge. The sponge method worked for me when I made 100x150cm prints and couldn't find (let alone afford) similar sized trays.

Thanks for the info, I hadn’t actually heard of this as a process and it might be a good tactic, can I ask how I would ensure even development on the paper with a sponge?

Thanks.

[Jeroen]

Thanks for the info, I hadn’t actually heard of this as a process and it might be a good tactic, can I ask how I would ensure even development on the paper with a sponge?

Dilute your developer a bit more than usual (I used 1+19 instead of my usual 1+9), and rub, rub, rub! Gently of course, and evenly. You may need to develop a bit longer with this method. After a few prints you'll get repeatable results.

[DannyTreacy]

Dilute your developer a bit more than usual (I used 1+19 instead of my usual 1+9), and rub, rub, rub! Gently of course, and evenly. You may need to develop a bit longer with this method. After a few prints you'll get repeatable results.

Thanks for the info. So would I double the development time if I half the developer strength?

Thanks!

[Jeroen]

1,5x or 2x your standard development times would be a good starting point, yep.

[DannyTreacy]

1,5x or 2x your standard development times would be a good starting point, yep.

Great thanks!