Graphic bed drop / front tilt ?

[bashrafi]

I'm trying to get into LFF with a Crown Graphic. I have twice tried to get the effect of front tilt with a bed drop combined with a back tilt. Both times, I tried to focus the image after dropping the bed, and the back rails on which the lens rides popped out of the guides attached to the box. Although I can fix it, I'm probably damaging the camera. Can anyone offer any advice? How to do this correctly? What am I missing?

[maltfalc]

if you want front tilt, why are you adding back tilt? why are you forcing the focus knobs hard enough to break things, or at all?

[bashrafi]

Dropping the bed gives very large front tilt, which you have to reduce with some back tilt. To be honest, I do not feel like I am forcing anything. I certainly would not do so intentionally.

[Dan Fromm]

Oh dear, another new user who believes the propaganda.

If you play a little with your new camera you'll find that the "drop bed, use back tilt" trick doesn't work for all focal lengths at all focused distances. When you use the trick, you'll have to add front rise to center the lens' axis on the camera's gate. This is very limited ...

I just took out one of my Crowns, dropped the bed and racked the rails as far forward as possible. The inner bed rails stayed in their tracks. I think your camera has broken inner tracks. This can happen when the front door is forced to close with the bed not fully retracted. If you can return the camera for a full refund, do so, and get a better one.

If you need what a proper view camera can do, get one. I like my Graphics, but they're not proper view cameras and what they can do is limited.

[bashrafi]

Yes, alas, that all sounds right. Thanks.

[Doremus Scudder]

For moderate front tilt on a camera that doesn't have tilt on the front standard, simply tilt the camera forward using your tripod's pan tilt head, tilt the back back plumb and center the image using front rise. You may find you don't need the drop-bed feature at all.

Doremus

[Duolab123]

I thought the bed drop was so you don't see it when using a 65mm wide lens? ??

[Vaughn]

I thought the bed drop was so you don't see it when using a 65mm wide lens? ??

Did many press photographers at the time use 65s? What would have been the widest that would be routinely used? (thinking indoors murder scenes, courtrooms,)

[Dan Fromm]

I thought the bed drop was so you don't see it when using a 65mm wide lens? ??Hmm. Are you thinking 2x3?

Doremus, Graphics have fixed backs.

[Louis Pacilla]

For moderate front tilt on a camera that doesn't have tilt on the front standard, simply tilt the camera forward using your tripod's pan tilt head, tilt the back back plumb and center the image using front rise. You may find you don't need the drop-bed feature at all.

Doremus

There are no provisions for back tilt on Graflex Graphic camera.:(

Like brother Dan said if you want a view camera then buy one but trying to figure how to make a Graphic camera a field camera is not gonna happen without many hours of labor cutting up & rebuilding a Crown or Speed Graphic. Why when they do what they do greatly in fact I'm picking up another 2 1/4x 3 1/4 Pacemaker Crown Graphic with the great 103mm Ektar lens and a few holders + roll film back tomorrow & yes it has it's ground glass back.

[Vaughn]

This might be of help...

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/cameras/pacemaker/

If you are using a 135mm or 150mm, the drop bed, front rise, and the front-standard's back tilt, one should be able to easily duplicate the small amount of front tilt one might come across needing for landscape work.

I have an older model (pre-anniversary...wood) and it has been years since I handled a newer Crown. I remember it being rather straight forward, with needing to make sure the rail hinge was in the right place before dropping. Something like that.

[Neal Chaves]

Tilting the front places considerable demand on lens covering power, something the stock lenses found on press cameras are not generally known for. Use front tilt sparingly or you will soon exceed coverage.

[Vaughn]

This thread on Photrio might help...

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/graflex-speed-graphic-rail-extension.180271/

[Doremus Scudder]

Hmm. Are you thinking 2x3?

Doremus, Graphics have fixed backs.

Ah, I see... This shows my total ignorance of Speed and Crown Graphics! All the more reason to not use them if you need tilts :)

Maybe the OP needs another camera? Really, if Graphic press cameras and other knock-offs are like this, then their use is limited to those types of situations and subjects that don't need the careful image management that a regular view camera provides, despite their larger film size. I can't see much advantage of a featureless press camera over MF...

I moved to large format just because I needed movements. My experience is only with fairly full-featured monorails and field cameras with tilts/swings on both standards, front rise/fall and shift on at least one standard; those are my minimum requirements.

[/end rant]

Doremus

[Kevin Crisp]

As a increasingly frequent user of Crown Graphics, I think it is easy to sell them short as general purpose landscape cameras, despite the relative lack of movements. My most frequently used movement is front rise. They handle that just fine. It is pretty rare that I can't use composition and/or depth of field to avoid using front tilt. But you can reverse the front standard so that they will (with bed in the NOT dropped position) give you front tilt. With those two movements at my disposal, there isn't much to stop me from getting what I want.

They have many positives:

1. Outstanding design and build quality;

2. Self-casing, durable design, that can handle most "normal" lenses pre-installed;

3. Graflok back (usually);

4. Numerous focusing options...bed scale, adjustable rangefinder, or ground glass;

5. Acceptable gg/fresnel combination;

6. Numerous framing options; optical viewfinder, gg, highly accurate viewing frame for action;

7. Lots of parts around at reasonable prices;

8. Bellows that last forever no matter how you treat them;

9. Can be conveniently handheld.

In a relatively small shoulder bag, I can fit one of mine with a 135mm Symmar installed. I can easily carry a 90mm angulon and a 210mm R Claron too. Plus a meter and some filters, etc. All that (I am sure) weighs less than my D850.

No, they can't do everything. All cameras are compromises. But they can do a lot.

[Vaughn]

I have met people traveling internationally with a Crown (granted back in the 80s), and one of the things that make them so good for gung-ho hit the road traveling is that it has its own box and if it get stolen, lost, destroyed or damaged, it is often repairable or replaceable. It is tough, it was used as a combat camera. As Kevin seem to say, one looks for images that fits the tools one has. I like my (almost) full movement 8x10 Zone VI and 11x14 Chamonix field cameras, but don't curse my Rollei for having none.

I weighed my wood Speed Graphic -- with the 150mm tessar lens and shutter it is 5 pounds. Heavier than the Crown due to the rear shutter, but makes it a fun camera to use when mounting barrel lenses or even a magnifying glass as a taking lens.

[Duolab123]

As a increasingly frequent user of Crown Graphics, I think it is easy to sell them short as general purpose landscape cameras, despite the relative lack of movements. My most frequently used movement is front rise. They handle that just fine. It is pretty rare that I can't use composition and/or depth of field to avoid using front tilt. But you can reverse the front standard so that they will (with bed in the NOT dropped position) give you front tilt. With those two movements at my disposal, there isn't much to stop me from getting what I want.

They have many positives:

1. Outstanding design and build quality;

2. Self-casing, durable design, that can handle most "normal" lenses pre-installed;

3. Graflok back (usually);

4. Numerous focusing options...bed scale, adjustable rangefinder, or ground glass;

5. Acceptable gg/fresnel combination;

6. Numerous framing options; optical viewfinder, gg, highly accurate viewing frame for action;

7. Lots of parts around at reasonable prices;

8. Bellows that last forever no matter how you treat them;

9. Can be conveniently handheld.

In a relatively small shoulder bag, I can fit one of mine with a 135mm Symmar installed. I can easily carry a 90mm angulon and a 210mm R Claron too. Plus a meter and some filters, etc. All that (I am sure) weighs less than my D850.

No, they can't do everything. All cameras are compromises. But they can do a lot.

I've had a Crown Graphic for 30 years. It's a great camera for handheld rangefinder focused pictures. Tmax 400 f16 500th in the sun. Original Xenar 135mm (is it Xenar?) It's the little 4 element Schneider lens. Recently picked up a slightly newer version of the same camera with the top viewfinder, really bright, has the focusing light that works great for dim light up close. You can see why these, Crown and Speed were so incredibly popular with the press, zone focus, huge flash bulbs f16 with 127 - 135 pretty wide lens. 20 square inches of film. Just remember to not double expose. I still have some TXP film packs in the freezer. Flimsy acetate stock but 16 shots, pretty much the same as a couple holders. BTW everyone sees Beseler Negaflat carriers that stretch the film flat. Film pack flimsies were what these carriers were made for.
I have a Calumet 6x9 4x5 roll film back, but I always end up shooting 4x5.

[Chuck Pere]

When using a Crown graphic on a tripod the thing I dislike is the fixed back. You have to rotate the camera to do a vertical instead of just rotating the back. And then all the movements are shifted around. For me the later Super Graphic would be a better tripod camera.