Show Your Compendium Shade on a Field Camera Thread... [Archive]

Doremus Scudder

18-Dec-2020, 13:14

Hi ic, (hope you don't mind the nick-name :) )

I use a Voss filter holder with barn doors for a lens shade when in the field. It's small and compact and fits easily in a shirt/vest pocket. It only has two blades, but does the job pretty well for me on 4x5. It may work for you as well as long as it will fit on your lenses. I imagine it is too small for anything with filter sizes larger than 67mm. They're only available used these days.

Anyway, here's a link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Voss-Barn-Door-2-3-4-Inch-Square-Filter-Holder-/324285873596

If this is too small, maybe you could cobble something together that is similarly compact and that would work.

I know you're trying to cut down on internal reflections. My personal experience is that compendium shades are too bulky for field work. I was always leaving mine at home or in the car. The Voss holder lives in a pocket in my photo vest and is always with me. It does a good job at blocking stray light from the sun and bright overcast skies.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

Eric Woodbury

18-Dec-2020, 14:25

Doremus, Voss holders are very good. Wish they made a 100mm version for larger lenses, but the 75mm version works for most things.

e

Len Middleton

18-Dec-2020, 14:49

IC,

This is a slip-on bracket for a Toyo shade that works on my V8

210707210708210706

Might provide some ideas for you.

Good luck,

Len

Eric Woodbury

18-Dec-2020, 17:37

Does anyone know of a 'French Flag' for view cameras. Cine folks use them, but they look heavy.

Michael R

18-Dec-2020, 19:22

I have the compendium hood and masking attachment for my Linhof but I have always found compendium hoods awkward and bulky. All I really need most of the time are the masking blades, which are nothing more than four sliding pieces of cardboard, so I rigged up a way to just put a masking thing on the lens. When I *hopefully* get up and running with some 3D software one of my photo projects will be to make a better one.

The other compendium-type hood I sometimes use is a Lee thing. See pictures attached (sorry the pictures make it look huge but it’s not). Compendium-ish.

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Chuck Pere

19-Dec-2020, 07:54

Why not just screw a lens hood on your lens? Not perfect but it will help when using a lens with 8x10 coverage on a 4x5. You need 360 degree coverage for ground reflections. A compendium shade is the best solution but I'll never carry one around in the woods. I just size my hoods so they don't cut off at maximum rise.

Bob Salomon

19-Dec-2020, 08:40

Alan Klein

19-Dec-2020, 08:56

If it doesn’t cut off at maximum rise then it isn’t a very effective hood.

Bob, could you explain this? Doesn't the hood attach to the lens so it rises together?

Bob Salomon

19-Dec-2020, 10:24

Bob, could you explain this? Doesn't the hood attach to the lens so it rises together?

To effectively eliminate flare your hood or compendium has to be as long as your bellows extension and have an opening the size of the film. That eliminates all extraneous light. And, with your system, if you use back direct displacements your hood will vignette.
Think of using a fixed length hood on a zoom lens. If it works effectively at the longest focal length it isn’t doing anything at the widest setting. If it is effective at the widest focal length it isn’t effective at the longest focal length. And it can’t be effective at intermediate focal lengths.

David Lindquist

19-Dec-2020, 10:53

IC,

This is a slip-on bracket for a Toyo shade that works on my V8

210707210708210706

Might provide some ideas for you.

Good luck,

Len

Nice looking sheet metal work. Did you do it yourself?

David

neil poulsen

19-Dec-2020, 11:39

Multiple 8x10's I've had (and have) have been (are) prone to internal reflections. That was true with a 2D that I had, a Sinar, and now with my Oschwald era Arca Swiss.

I use a Lee compendium lenshood with my current 8x10, and I find that I need a mask with 4x5 ratio opening to reduce internal reflections. My Lee has attachments on the end that can hold a mask. So, problem solved.

Len Middleton

19-Dec-2020, 13:45

Nice looking sheet metal work. Did you do it yourself?

David

David,

It is well designed and well built, and beyond the equipment I have and my skill capability...

Had a couple of really skilled sheet metal workers in the adjacent unit where my wife worked. They did prototypes and short production run work, and designed and built it when I told them what I wanted.

I like that it accommodates the V8 separate rise control and that it required no modification to the camera itself.

I think the concept could be applied to other field cameras that do not have dedicated means to mount a compendium shade.

Hope that is useful,

Len

tgtaylor

19-Dec-2020, 15:21

Here's an unusual combination:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50737021573_5cb0a4fcab.jpg

Toyo Compendium hood and Cokin Z Pro holder with 4x4" Cokin Z001 Yellow filter on a Toyo 810MII.

Alan Klein

19-Dec-2020, 22:04

To effectively eliminate flare your hood or compendium has to be as long as your bellows extension and have an opening the size of the film. That eliminates all extraneous light. And, with your system, if you use back direct displacements your hood will vignette.
Think of using a fixed length hood on a zoom lens. If it works effectively at the longest focal length it isn’t doing anything at the widest setting. If it is effective at the widest focal length it isn’t effective at the longest focal length. And it can’t be effective at intermediate focal lengths.
Sorry. I don't think understand the bolded part. Are you saying that if I'm shooting a 4x5, and the lens extension from the film plane to focus is 120mm around 4", then the hood opening should be 4x5" and extend out 120mm from the front of the lens?

ghostcount

19-Dec-2020, 23:06

...some other makeshift solution (other than holding the darkslide with one's hand.)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61xSZ4kRKIL._AC_SL1200_.jpg

Dinkum Systems Compact Lens Shade https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009KQFVYA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_4FU3FbS6CSAVV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Bob Salomon

20-Dec-2020, 02:42

Sorry. I don't think understand the bolded part. Are you saying that if I'm shooting a 4x5, and the lens extension from the film plane to focus is 120mm around 4", then the hood opening should be 4x5" and extend out 120mm from the front of the lens?

Yes that blocks all extraneous light from the image plane. Of course, it also has to be able to do the same movements as the front standard or it would cutoff.

ic-racer

20-Dec-2020, 06:26

Some nice solutions. Thanks for posting.

ic-racer

20-Dec-2020, 06:29

Today I'll try to calibrate the hole in my 'barndoor' shade for front rise. I have a scale on the front of the camera I can use. With one extra hole, that will give me three working positions. That should be enough.

rfesk

20-Dec-2020, 06:39

I usually use collapsible hoods for my lenses but also use the Cokin size "P" lens hood system and stack the hoods as needed depending on the focal length of the lens when in the field with Sinar F2. They have limited use when a large amount of movement is involved.

None of my lenses require filters larger than 52mm except for the Nikon 90/8 which uses 67mm filters. I use screw-in filters only except for one graduated filter.

Greg

20-Dec-2020, 14:41

Sinar bellows lenshood mask 2 (533.21) mounted on the the frame of a Sinar Norma auxiliary standard. Initially wanted to adapt a HORSEMAN bellows lenshood to the front standard of my Chamonix. As you can see in the second image, the HORSEMAN is a lot larger than the bellows lenshood mask. Lens hood mask is atop an 8x10 holder. It easily fits inside a soft case that holds my 8x10 holders, and works equally on all my Chamonix field cameras. In practice the Sinar bellows lenshood mask 2 works as good as a bellows lenshood, and I find it much easier to set up and align.

HORSEMAN will be adapted to my Sinar X in the near future.

LabRat

1-Nov-2021, 22:11

I have found few situations where bellows flare raised its ugly head, but because of good lens shading, not a problem... Usual problem is from not overhead (as lens is shaded) but from other angles, like sides, bottom of frame etc... Like shooting into sun late in the day, but the snow/water/sand is reflecting directly into the lens causing ghosts, blobs etc... Or something out of frame is super bright and you are trying to shoot a low key subject (common in night photography)...

Sometimes the culprit is not the bellows, but a smooth (even black) strip in the camera that reflects directly to film at some lighting angles... You can see if any are there by setting up camera in darkened room and shine a very bright light just out of frame towards lens, remove GG panel, and look carefully for anything with a "glow" inside anything camera/bellows/FS & RS insides, and film back area... (Put light over/under/all sides of camera and keep looking...) Ultra black matte paint can even reflect a lot of light, so cover area with felt strip, half a velcro strip, or a fine grooved surface...

I often use an external light stand with cards as "flags", but also look carefully on lens area externally if something reflects a lot of light towards lensboard and apply another flag... Waving your hand around near lens will leave a slight shadow, so put the flag there...

I do a lot of night work, and lens front surface is a handy "mirror" that reflects light that hit lens, so I adjust flags until highlight spots vanish...

(Oh, this post was supposed to be in the bellows flare post currently running, but ended up here... Ooops!!!)

Steve K

Bernice Loui

2-Nov-2021, 10:06

Sinar adjustable curtain shade works GOOD when properly applied as needed.

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Bernice

Drew Wiley

2-Nov-2021, 15:50

Some bellows material are less reflective and better than others. But besides that, oversized tapered bellows control internal reflections better than just big enough "box" bellows, which tunnel the light more. And most important is a good adjustable compendium shade. Mere overhead shades are better than nothing; but sometimes the glare comes from below, like a bright water or snow reflection. Screw-on lens shade aren't much good in terms of cooperating with view camera movements, and certainly don't work well with wide angle lenses; but again, they're better than nothing.
All my view cameras have integral shades; and a good one doesn't necessarily weigh much, but must be capable of locking down well enough to resist wind deflection.
Overall, in my case, I'm confident that flare is a very insignificant problem with view camera photography because I routinely control it. Same goes for my enlargers.
I have never applied a "flare factor" to any exposure or development model. That seems as arcane to me as a starter crank on a Model T Ford. I have sometimes deliberately employed a bit of flare within a composition to wash out something slightly; but a compendium allows that itself to be precisely controlled.

Cor

3-Nov-2021, 03:05

I hardly use a compendium, partly I do not seem to be very proficient in using them..I seem to include the edged on my negative, I know about looking through the cut corners on my ground glass, I need to practice I guess.(any tips ?) Luckily I had no major flare problems due to the bellows of my Technika Color or my Galvin 4*5 as far as I can tell

best,

Cor

Michael R

3-Nov-2021, 05:38

Applying a “flare factor” would indeed be arcane, approximate at best (since you can’t measure it in the field), and wouldn’t really do much anyway. You can’t really compensate for flare via exposure/development.

Some bellows material are less reflective and better than others. But besides that, oversized tapered bellows control internal reflections better than just big enough "box" bellows, which tunnel the light more. And most important is a good adjustable compendium shade. Mere overhead shades are better than nothing; but sometimes the glare comes from below, like a bright water or snow reflection. Screw-on lens shade aren't much good in terms of cooperating with view camera movements, and certainly don't work well with wide angle lenses; but again, they're better than nothing.
All my view cameras have integral shades; and a good one doesn't necessarily weigh much, but must be capable of locking down well enough to resist wind deflection.
Overall, in my case, I'm confident that flare is a very insignificant problem with view camera photography because I routinely control it. Same goes for my enlargers.
I have never applied a "flare factor" to any exposure or development model. That seems as arcane to me as a starter crank on a Model T Ford. I have sometimes deliberately employed a bit of flare within a composition to wash out something slightly; but a compendium allows that itself to be precisely controlled.

Gabe

6-Nov-2021, 05:19

I use the Lee filter holder with built in compendium shade. It works well.

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r.e.

6-Nov-2021, 06:39

I use the Lee filter holder with built in compendium shade. It works well.

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For some recent discussion about the Lee hood, and a video about the current version, see posts 12, 13, 19 and 20 in the thread Internal Bellows Reflections (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?161402-Internal-Bellows-Reflections).

Gabe

6-Nov-2021, 07:16

For some recent discussion about the Lee hood, and a video about the current version, see posts 12, 13, 19 and 20 in the thread Internal Bellows Reflections (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?161402-Internal-Bellows-Reflections).

Mine is the original standard version. I've used it on lenses as wide as 90mm with good effect. The only slight niggle is if you need to use grad filters at the same time this dictates the orientation of the hood as well, which may not match you chosen image orientation. In practice though I haven't found this to be a problem (yet, anyway). I see the newer version gets arounds this issue, which is nice.

r.e.

6-Nov-2021, 07:26

Mine is the original, non wide angle version. I've used it on lenses as wide as 90mm with good effect. The only slight niggle is if you need to use grad filters at the same time this dictates the orientation of the hood as well, which may not match you chosen image orientation. In practice though I haven't found this to be a problem (yet, anyway).

The new Lee100 holder lets you rotate the hood and holder independently. That may address the orientation issue that you mention. See 00:50 and following of this video. David Noton rotates the hood while using a graduated neutral density filter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfVE75XTwjo

Gabe

6-Nov-2021, 07:49

The new Lee100 holder lets you rotate the hood and holder independently. That may address the orientation issue that you mention. See 00:50 and following of this video:

Thanks, I watched this and edited my original post before refreshing the page and seeing this reply.

Definitely a nice feature to have, but as I said I haven't encountered a situation with the original where it has caused a problem. It certainly wouldn't be enough to make me buy the whole system again, but if you already have the newer system it makes sense. The hood is expensive, but definitely worth the money IMO. Another benefit of it is it protects the lens/filters from spray, rain etc, as he mentions. I was recently photographing in the Peak District in more or less constant drizzle, and I found this feature invaluable.

One issue I'm encountering at the moment is my Lee resin grads are all getting discoloured with age, and need replacing. Rather than buying resin grads again and facing the same problem down the road, I want to get tempered glass grads instead. That section of the filter market has exploded in recent years, with many companies now offering superb quality glass grads (at high cost, of course). The problem with those though is that they are heavier and ever so slightly thinner than the Lee grads, so I've found the holder does not hold them securely and they slowly sink through the rails. I'm still trying to find a solution to this, but that's another topic.

r.e.

6-Nov-2021, 07:59

if you already have the newer system it makes sense. The hood is expensive, but definitely worth the money IMO. Another benefit of it is it protects the lens/filters from spray, rain etc, as he mentions. I was recently photographing in the Peak District in more or less constant drizzle, and I found this feature invaluable.

I have the new Lee100 holder, and at least one European dealer sells the Lee100 hood at a better price, including shipping, than the U.S. price ($343). I have a compendium shade for my Arca-Swiss camera, but I'm seriously considering the Lee100 hood.

r.e.

8-Nov-2021, 04:32

Further to posts 30 to 34, Joe Cornish talks about Lee's former lens hood design at 13:45 of this 2015 video. Unlike the current Lee100 hood, the lens hood can't be rotated independently of a filter. That can be an issue with a rectangular graduated neutral density filter, although @Gabe says above that he hasn't run into the problem as a practical matter. As someone who has a Lee square linear polariser, I do think it's clear from Cornish's demonstration that it is unusable with the old style of hood. No doubt that's why he talks about Lee's round polariser and its attachment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHsZVjfaW8I&t=889s

On its website, Lee says this about using the new hood with wide angle lenses: "The LEE100 Hood has a wide angle of view and can be used with two filters down to 28mm (full frame sensor) without vignetting. At half extension it can be used at approx. 20mm."

Re price (post #34), I've determined that a Lee100 hood can be obtained in the U.S. for about US$290 including shipping. Not inexpensive, but better than B&H.

r.e.

9-Nov-2021, 07:29

I have a compendium shade for my Arca-Swiss camera, but I'm seriously considering the Lee100 hood.

I expect to receive a Lee100 hood on Friday. I'll post my impressions after trying it out over the weekend. I got the attached one-page PDF, which doesn't appear to be on Lee's own site, from the vendor's site.

Lee100 Hood Specs

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Alan Klein

9-Nov-2021, 07:49

I have a compendium hood for my Mamiya RB67 MF camera with four lenses. But frankly, I rarely use it. It's just a pain in the neck to set up, attach, etc. I haven't noticed the difference over the years. I really shouldn't be so lazy. :rolleyes: Now I have a 4x5 with four lenses. No hood. Plus if I get one, it will be harder to use because of movements. No?

ic-racer

9-Nov-2021, 10:32

Applying a “flare factor” would indeed be arcane, approximate at best (since you can’t measure it in the field), and wouldn’t really do much anyway. You can’t really compensate for flare via exposure/development.
Of course this thread is about internal reflections that do not fall diffusely on the image. But a diffuse reflection would indeed be called 'flare.' This can be easily measured with a can or box in which the inside is painted black. This can be placed in an outdoor scene. Measure the inside of the box with your meter and then measure the density on film.
Compare this with a step wedge exposed with a sensitometer.
For example, expose the inside of the box at Zone 0 and look at your sensitometer-exposed 21 step film and measure the density two steps (one stop) below your 0.1 log d step.
Compare that to the density you get from your 'black box' exposure. Make sure the black box fills an area on the film that will allow measurement (5mm or so, depending on your densitometer reticle).

Ben Calwell

9-Nov-2021, 14:52

Years ago, I made a lens hood from an empty Tri-X 100 sheet box. After one glass of wine, it’s too complicated to explain, but it involved using the inner, middle and outer box lids to fashion a poor man’s bellows lens hood. It attached to the lens with an appropriate lens step-up ring.

tgtaylor

14-Nov-2021, 18:40

On a Toyo MII:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51680575683_e8396b4b4c_z.jpg

Same hood on a Toyo Robos
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51680320026_22c06d1d93_z.jpg

Thomas

ic-racer

15-Nov-2021, 07:40

Nice.

NormaN

22-Nov-2021, 14:56

Adapted by the previous owner: Toyo Compendium on a Technika 5x7

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Scraps

27-Nov-2021, 17:57

You’re all going to say that it’s time to buy a new lens hood. I could, but it’s only fifteen years old. Perhaps when I get paid, but it’s rewarding to do a repair even if it’s not pretty. A little Gardner Bender liquid tape did the magic. This repair started innocently enough but I soon noticed all the minor separations which turned into major ones when putting the hood under more stress than it normally gets. I did try to do the fix in layers, but it didn’t go so smoothly. However, it is quite functional, and I’m putting it to work this week!

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speedfreak

6-Dec-2021, 22:07

I've found an out of the box solution...sort of... for shading the lens: I remember seeing an image of, I think, David Ward with a black card attached to a flexible arm attached to his camera that could be manipulated to shade the lens in different orientations and angles. I think it might have been the old Ebony lens shade clip. Given, this isn't the full on matte box or compendium, but merely a third hand borrowing the duty from the busy photographer who would usually try to shade the lens with the pulled dark slide while observing the scene and pressing the shutter release.
After some research I found that the Flare Buster brand is also kaput. The Dinkum system looked a little bulky and looks like its meant more for the film industry. I found a few others, but settles on the SmallRig Simple Shade 3199. It's not perfect but works as intended and is pretty light weight and has a 1/4-20 end to screw into as well as a cold she mount. I can unscrew the card from the flex arm and attach it directly to the adjustable arm I mention next if I feel so inclined.
I added this to a universal arm by Leofoto. These things are super handy as you loosen the large knob the tension in the entire system eases up gradually and it can be manipulated into just about any position, then you tighten the knob and its damn solid. I added this to a small Arca style clamp that has a 1/4-20 female thread on the side. This whole contraption is then mounted to the Arca Swiss rail and can be slid to and fro along the length, again, adding in more adjustability. I also have a couple clips that Leofoto offers that have the threaded end and can be attached to the arm as well. With the clips I can hold what ever type of shade I want. One could even hold a filter if you hade to.
I've only used is a couple times but it works just as intended; allowing me to set the shade, then focus on the picture making task. There are a lot of options and I guess I could even fashion a shade for ground glass viewing in certain situations.
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Alan Klein

8-Dec-2021, 06:28

I have a compendium for my Mamiya RB67 medium format camera. It screws on the front of the lenses, all 77mm threads. Now on my 4x5, I have 77mm adapters so I can use the same 77mm filters from my MF Mamiya. The compendium will screw on the 4x5 lens' adapters. But how do I deal with movements? I assume I'll have vignetting.

John Layton

8-Dec-2021, 15:48

I usually just use my dark slide.

Bob Salomon

8-Dec-2021, 15:52

I usually just use my dark slide.

And if you have sun from above and strong spectrals from another direction?

Drew Wiley

8-Dec-2021, 17:30

Bob nailed it. I often had to deal with not only direct sun, but brilliant reflections down below off water or ice at the same time. So adjustable compendiums are the best option. I have both the Lee compendium system with appropriate step rings, and Sinar compendium components compatible with their own system. But I do admittedly go ultralight at times with just a special little lockable swivel attachment atop the front standard that I cannibalized form an old drafting pen setup. It is combined with a simple clip permanently retaining half a darkslide. Sure beats a cowboy hat at least. Less lice and fleas; and once adjusted, can be checked for position through the cut corners of the ground glass.