Albumen Print Toning Color Shift Examples

[Sam L]

Does anyone have photo examples of the color shifts available from toning albumen prints in different ways?

I have been playing with selenium because it's cheap and I have it but I'm curious what's possible with gold, platinum and the combination but don't want to spend the money for the chemicals until I have a goal in mind. In this book, the author talks extensively about the shifts from gold and platinum but with no examples:

https://cool.culturalheritage.org/albumen/library/monographs/reilly/chap8.html

Here's what I've found for selenium toning with sodium chloride albumin paper. With no toning, the dark tones are reddish brown:
210051

With 45s in Ilford selenium tonier @ 10:1 dilution, the red brown converts to chocolate brown and gets a shade darker. The highlights take on a slight pinkish tint that is undesirable but the overall effect is much better than untoned in terms of color and contrast:
210052

Beyond 45 seconds, the dark tones don't get any darker or change color but the highlights get stained yellow:
210053

[Drew Wiley]

Although I have collected some lovely antique albumen prints, I can't directly answer your question. But I do routinely use gold toner for ordinary silver prints, and it's actually quite affordable. Most formulas call for way more gold chloride in solution than you actually need. It doesn't keep longer than a single session anyway, once mixed with the B component. I use a formula resembling GP1, but at about 1/4 the strength - makes no difference with final image color; time in the toning bath is the more important variable.
My ANNUAL cost for 1% gold chloride is only around $75. And I typically make 16X20 prints, or even 20x24. It takes very little to get the job done.

[Jim Noel]

I use gold toner single use only. If the appropriate solution is used, it isn't that expensive, and is much more appropriate than selenium. Why make an albumen print and ruin it with selenium just because it is cheap.

[Sam L]

The book says "Reynolds discovered that potassium chloroplatinite was a very energetic toner of silver prints, yielding brown and brownish-black tones instead of the purplish and bluish-black tones obtained with gold toners." And that a neutral black can be obtained by using both.

Platinum alone sounds a lot like selenium for albumin paper but I'd like to confirm that. Gold sounds interesting to me in the blue-black extreme but I'm not interested in purples. Selenium is already a big improvement over no toning; definitely not ruining the prints imo.

[drewf64]

I use gold toner single use only. If the appropriate solution is used, it isn't that expensive, and is much more appropriate than selenium. Why make an albumen print and ruin it with selenium just because it is cheap.

Hello Jim:
Could you please elaborate regarding " ... the appropriate solution ..." and also provide composition and dilution details?
Thank you!
Drew

[Jim Noel]

Hello Jim:
Could you please elaborate regarding " ... the appropriate solution ..." and also provide composition and dilution details?
Thank you!
Drew

I use a Thiourea toner. It is kept in 2 parts, and a supply mixed when ready to use. I use 20-25 ml on an 8x10 print - single use only to keep times consistent. Most people use it by mixing a tray full and toning some number of prints. The problem with this approach is 1) you may end up with some mixed and not used at the end of the session and 2) succeeding prints will take longer to reach appropriate color . My current stock solutions are more than 5 years old and still good..

[Tin Can]

Jim, would use disclose your exact method?

It seems different than FORMULARY THIOUREA TONER BLEACH AND REDEVELOPMENT (http://stores.photoformulary.com/content/06-0045.pdf)

[Jim Noel]

Look up Thiourea toner formulae and stay away from Formulary products. I have had nothing but bad luck with them. I have been formulating my own photo chemicals from raw materials for over 80 years, yes 80. I don't like depending on the work of others which I can not fully document.

[Tin Can]

Found a list of formulae

many refer right back to LFPF

http://obeguku.changeip.com/Thiourea-toner-recipe.html

[tgtaylor]

This is an example of an albumin print toned to completion (~25 minutes) with 80mL of the gold-ammonium thiocynate POP formula that can be found in the Christopher James book:


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50406542081_88a4444fed_o.jpg

[Jim Noel]

This is an example of an albumin print toned to completion (~25 minutes) with 80mL of the gold-ammonium thiocynate POP formula that can be found in the Christopher James book:


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50406542081_88a4444fed_o.jpg

That is likely the same toner, but if this is an 8x10 print, 25 ml is sufficient. 35-40ml should do an 11x14.

[Jim Noel]

Jim, would use disclose your exact method?

It seems different than FORMULARY THIOUREA TONER BLEACH AND REDEVELOPMENT (http://stores.photoformulary.com/content/06-0045.pdf)

Check your PM's.

[Sam L]

tgtaylor, thanks for the example. It looks just slightly purple to me.

Jim, how do you apply the small volume of toner to your prints? Flat bottom tray? Glass rod?

[tgtaylor]

tgtaylor, thanks for the example. It looks just slightly purple to me.

Jim, how do you apply the small volume of toner to your prints? Flat bottom tray? Glass rod?

Caveat emptor: I may not have toned this print after all. I have been using that toner consistently on kallitypes for a couple of years - gradually increasing the toner time to about 25 minutes. But for this print, my first and so far only albumin, I may have left it untoned as I didn't identify it as being toned on my website which I normally do when I tone. The reddish tones seem to support that. It strikes me as being very "Watkinesque" which I admire and would imply that Watkins didn't tone his prints.

I use the tray to develop, tone, fix, clear, and wash - a 11x14 flat bottom Crescoe.

[Tin Can]

This is the color I want!


This is an example of an albumin print toned to completion (~25 minutes) with 80mL of the gold-ammonium thiocynate POP formula that can be found in the Christopher James book:


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50406542081_88a4444fed_o.jpg

[drewf64]

I use a Thiourea toner. It is kept in 2 parts, and a supply mixed when ready to use. I use 20-25 ml on an 8x10 print - single use only to keep times consistent. Most people use it by mixing a tray full and toning some number of prints. The problem with this approach is 1) you may end up with some mixed and not used at the end of the session and 2) succeeding prints will take longer to reach appropriate color . My current stock solutions are more than 5 years old and still good..

Thank you for your reply and expertise, Jim.
Greatly appreciated!!
Good details in the Christopher James book...
Drew

[drewf64]

This is an example of an albumin print toned to completion (~25 minutes) with 80mL of the gold-ammonium thiocynate POP formula that can be found in the Christopher James book:


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50406542081_88a4444fed_o.jpg

Thank you for pointing out the formula in Christopher James' book.
Just located it and will proceed accordingly!
Drew

[Tin Can]

Can I assume the 3rd 2015 edition of Christopher James "The Book of Alternative Photographic Processes" has significant additional data than Ed 1 2001 and Ed 2 2008?

[Jim Noel]

I only have editions 1 and 2, so I don't know.

[Tin Can]

Just learned Ed 1 is 400 pages, Ed 2 is 640 pages and Ed 3 is 800 pages

Ed 1 is as cheap as $16, Ed 2 $42 and Ed 3 is $100

I also was just told I need right eye surgery and signed papers that I may go blind in that eye...surgery #2...

I will buy Ed 3

right now

[Jim Noel]

Just learned Ed 1 is 400 pages, Ed 2 is 640 pages and Ed 3 is 800 pages

Ed 1 is as cheap as $16, Ed 2 $42 and Ed 3 is $100

I also was just told I need right eye surgery and signed papers that I may go blind in that eye...surgery #2...

I will buy Ed 3

right now

I assume you need cataract surgery. If you have a good surgeon, it's a piece of cake. I had both of mine done several years ago.
If anything else, I would get a 2nd opinion.
Good luck!
Jim

[Tin Can]

Jim, had both cataracts done 2 years ago. Laser too. Glaucoma is quickly advancing. My best surgeon says early next month I need https://www.xengelstent.com/XENGelStent. Which is my only hope in right eye.

That eye now has 35mm lens coverage on a Dim 5X7 GG.

90% success, they use Ketamine, same as the Cataract surgery, means no awareness yet awake...

However Glaucoma is incurable, both parents had it bad...


I assume you need cataract surgery. If you have a good surgeon, it's a piece of cake. I had both of mine done several years ago.
If anything else, I would get a 2nd opinion.
Good luck!
Jim

[Jim Noel]

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I wish you only the best of outcomes.

[Tin Can]

Thank you!

[Gary Samson]

Caveat emptor: I may not have toned this print after all. I have been using that toner consistently on kallitypes for a couple of years - gradually increasing the toner time to about 25 minutes. But for this print, my first and so far only albumin, I may have left it untoned as I didn't identify it as being toned on my website which I normally do when I tone. The reddish tones seem to support that. It strikes me as being very "Watkinesque" which I admire and would imply that Watkins didn't tone his prints.

I use the tray to develop, tone, fix, clear, and wash - a 11x14 flat bottom Crescoe.

Carleton Watkins definitely gold toned his prints. His prints would not have survived this long in the fine condition that many of them are in without toning.

[John Layton]

...somewhere I have an albumen print toned with mercuric chloride - a rich, burgundy-brown. If I can find it I will post. But...oh, so very toxic! Will never do this again!

[Drew Wiley]

What has messed up many of Watkin's prints is moisture-related mildew foxing. What makes his remaining big albumens so specially valuable is that most of them were destroyed in the 1906 SF earthquake and fire. My little collection of antique albumen prints all still look perfect.

[Sam L]

I ended up trying this myself and have some results. I opted for the "Gold-Ammonium Thiocyanate Toner II: POP Formula" recipe from Christopher James' Alternative Photographic Processes book. I chose this formula because it allows you to keep a shelf-stable gold toner in two parts and mix just as much as you need and is supposed to create cooler tones in albumin prints. The mix only lasts a few hours and gold is expensive so this seemed like the best bet.

First, the untoned albumin print:
219740

Here are two gold-toned versions.
219741

The right was toned for 30 min in the book's recommended 50ml A : 50ml B : 900ml water dilution. The color is a lot cooler and the contrast is a bit better but it is still distinctly brown.

The left was toned for 30 min in 3x strength solution (150ml:150ml:900ml). This gets very dark purplish black, similar to watkins' prints. I tried the stronger solution based on this quote from James M. Reilly's The Albumen & Salted Paper (https://cool.culturalheritage.org/albumen/library/monographs/reilly/chap8.html) Book: "Toning baths for matte salted papers should contain .1 to .2 g gold chloride per liter of toning solution, while glossy albumen paper toners should contain between .4 and .5 g gold chloride per liter of toning solution."

Here is a comparison of my 3x strength toned print to a random Watkins photo from one of my books of his work:
219745

They are pretty close. My blacks aren't as dark and is maybe my midtones are more purple, but then this is comparing a real albumin print to a reproduction in a book so it's apples to oranges.

[Drew Wiley]

I don't know how accurate the book reproduction is. Most of the many actual Watkins prints I've seen are the basic brownish. Albumen is certainly a beautiful process. Most gold toner formulas I've read waste gold like crazy; but I'm admittedly not an albumen printer myself. Wish I was.