Suggestions for a cheap 5x7

[Ron Marshall]

I am looking for a cheap but sturdy and functional 5x7 exclusively for studio or beside the car, so I am not concerned about weight. Minimal movements are fine as it will be mostly for portraiture. I am willing to scout ebay for a few months until something suitable appears.

I have read QTs 5x7 camera round-up but I am wondering if there are any models that I should favor or avoid.

[Ken Lee]

I have something that might interest you... a 5X7 Eastman Kodak View No 2A.

I will contact you off-line.

[Mark_3632]

I love my Kodak 2D.

[Ernest Purdum]

B&J's "Rembrandt" portrait cameras would seem to meet your criteria. They are usually quite cheap on eBay.

[Michael Graves]

Take Ken's 2D. I have one also. Even though I replaced it with a Toyo, I still refuse to part with it and I even continue to use it as my field camera. You ever tried hiking with a monorail?

[Ron Marshall]

Michael I did with my Sinar F1, but soon opted for a Toho.

[Kevin Crisp]

The Agfa/Ansco is a fine camera with plenty of movements, underappreciated, and priced accordingly. The downside is the weight, which you say is not an issue. I like it much better than the B&J, which tends to droop at the hinge on extension.

[Dave Moeller]

If the 2A doesn't work out (and it is a very fine camera), would you consider an 8x10 with a 5x7 reducing back? If so, the Calumet C1 sells pretty cheaply and reducing backs are available in 5x7 and 4x5. The only downside would be the bellows if you wanted to use wide-angle lenses. They don't compress much compared to true 5x7 bellows.

Good luck.

[Ron Marshall]

Dave, what would be your guess for the shortest lens that could be focused with a 5x7 back on the Calumet 8x10?

[Dave Moeller]

With a flat board, probably 150mm would be about it. But it wouldn't be too hard to build a recessed board...the lens boards on those things are massive. (I've never actually seen a recessed board for one, but can imagine making one from hobby plywood and a big margarine tub.)

[Ron Marshall]

That's good because I would like to try my 110 on it.

[Ron Marshall]

Is there such a thing as a 5x7 rear standard for a Sinar F? If so I might get lucky on ebay and run across one of those to upgrade my F1.

[Leonard Robertson]

Years ago I had a 5X7 B&J. I remember it had lots of movements and was light for a 5X7 of this type (7 1/2 pounds according to a B&J catalog I have). It was also rather crudely made, fairly shaky, and the focusing wasn't especially smooth. I'll contrast that with my 5X7 gray painted Ansco - quite heavy (9 3/4 pounds by my kitchen scale; my 8X10 Eastman 2D is 11 pounds without the extra focusing track), not really shaky, and the focusing is very smooth since the metal parts are plated. When I fold down the bed, the lock screw for the bed tightens with one or two flicks of the thumb compared with several turns of the knob on my Eastman. This is all rather subtle, but makes the Ansco much nicer/quicker to set up and focus. Most Anscos have built in additional focusing tracks rather than the seperate track used by Eastman and most other makers. If you look at eBay 7582469711 (yes I know it is an 8X10, but the 5X7s are very similar), photo #6 shows this quite well. Not all Anscos had this feature. If you are looking at a camera on eBay, be sure there is a lock knob on the right rear side of the main bed. This locks the sliding track in position. Of course this feature adds weight and bulk, compared to cameras with a seperate track. Another feature missing from some Anscos is the front tilt (that is the knob to the side of the lensboard opening on the above mentioned 8X10). I know you mentioned minimal movements, but front tilt is a quick and easy depth of field control, so you'll likely be pleased if you get a camera that has it. You mentioned portraiture as a main use. If you anticipate using large aperature "portrait" lenses or a Packard shutter behind the lens, you want as large a lens board as you can find. My Ansco is 5 1/4 inches square. I think some make 5X7s used smaller boards, but I'm unclear on this. If you use longer focal length lenses, total bellows draw is something to consider. My Ansco looks like it should extend to 20-21 inches with a better bellows. This brings me to a potential drawback to some Anscos which used a plastic-like bellows material that stiffens with age, so it won't allow as much extension as when new. I suspect the pre-WWII natural wood finished Ansco used leather bellows and don't have this problem. I can't say if this stiffness is a problem with most later Anscos, but I've seen it on a couple of different ones. Email sellers and ask how stiff the bellows seems.

[Nick Morris]

Hello,
I second the recommendation for the Ansco. I bought one last year off auction site for a little over $200, and it included a 4x5 back, 190mm ilex lens, and case. I bought it because of my satisfaction with the 8x10 Ansco outfit I have. Its not a Deardorff, or a new refined model, but the price is right, and you have most, if not all, the movements you will typically use. They have more features than the 2D, and I feel more stable than the B&J. Leonard makes good suggestions as to what to look for.

[Ron Marshall]

Leonard, thanks for the info. I had a look at the ebay posting. That seems to be what I am looking for.

[Alan Peck]

I have a Kodak Century No.2 5x7 that I got off e*bay for well under $50. It came with a 165mm B&L in shutter that has been okay for landscapes but not portraits. I'm building the extension track and I have to cover the bellows if shooting outside and I wish the lensboard was bigger (4.25" x 4.25"). But now I have a small brass barrel lens (that I got for free from our own JJ) and a packard to fit it that should work with minor mods to the camera. I really love using this old thing and will likely keep it forever.

Sounds like you can get something similar from another LF member and for what you're interested in shooting you really can't go wrong with a 100 year old camera.

Good luck,

[tor kviljo]

Hello Ron. I use a Sinar Norma as my 5"x7" camera, and can nothing but recommend it highly: very portable for a monorail when front & rear standard (bellows in place) as sandwich is placed in backpack, monorail alongside. Very stable for a (rather) lightweight 5x7 monorail. I bought my 5x7 as a conversion set from MXV in London for a small amount. This conversion set is sometimes found complete with mount-block ready to slide onto any standard sinar rail (to complete any Sinar F, F1, F2, Norma, P, X or P2 front standard...), but are somethimes sold without such hardware. In the latter instance, You take any Norma 4"x5" rear standard (a Norma front standard will also work), remove the 4"x5" U-frame & mount 5"x7" U-frame instead. You will much more likely find a Norma 5"x7" set than the quit rare Sinar F 5"x7" set, and the Norma is much better made... Except for the two-point dof calculator, You keep all movements and features of Your F -system even when adding a Norma 5"x7" back.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Here in Europe the 13x18cm format was used for studio work, say, until the seventies.
German-made 13x18 Plaubels are quite cheap. Many Linhof monorails had a 13x18 back. My understanding is that those cameras take either 5"x7" or 13x18 holders like for 9x12 and 4"x5" on the International back.
So you can safely add to the list Plaubels and Linhofs. Old 13x18 Arca Swiss monorails (Oschwald) do exist as well on the used market, as usual, the front is the 4"x5" standard and a 5"x7" back connected by the appropriate tapered bellows.

A friend of mine has a 13x18 Plaubel. He made an adaptor to mount 96x99mm Linhof Technika boards on the Plaubel board he got with the camera.

[Ron Marshall]

Hello Tor. Thank-you for the Norma information.

Will a 5x7 Sinar F1 bellows fit on a Norma?

[Ron Marshall]

I have discovered that a Sinar F bellows will fit the Norma standard.

What I am still wondering is if a 5x7 bellows will fit a 13x18 standard, and vice versa?

I think from a couple of auctions I and my F1 I can put together a 5x7.

[Scott Davis]

Dave- two comments on the Calumet C-1 -

#1 - the 5x7 reducing back for it (from the factory anyway) is the rarer of the bunch, and shows up with a fraction of the frequency of the 4x5 back (I oughta know - I went shopping for one of each for my C-1, and it took me about two weeks of ebay lurking to get a really nice clean 4x5 back for a price I was willing to pay (under $100). It took about six months of watching ebay to find ONE of the 5x7 reducing backs, and it ended up in my kit almost $200 later.

#2 - I have a recessed board for the C-1. The original boards for it are something like 5.5"x5.5", or maybe 6"x6". The recessed board is about 1.5" deep, and requires a 4.5"x4.5" board to hold the lens. It's sort of an adapter board that also happens to be recessed. Unfortunately it isn't sized to fit Linhof/Wista boards, or any of the other common boards.

[Struan Gray]

Ron, I don't know any camera-specific Sinar equipment that is any different between the 5x7 inch and 13x18 centimer formats. The holders are different internally, but have the same external dimensions and registration depth. My 13x18 holders even say '5x7' on them in addition to '13x18'.

So far as I know, all the Sinar 5x7 bellows are compatible with all the Sinar 5x7 cameras. The only compatibility gotcha I know of is in 10x8. The older Norma standard bellows has a plate on the front with a circular aperture. This will not obstruct any lens you can squeeze onto a Sinar lensboard, but it is possible that it could foul a mounting screw or bolt that projected too far behind the lensboard. The bag bellows (which you will need for your 110 XL) has no such plate.

As you have found out, the front of the Sinar 5x7 cameras is the same as the 4x5, and the bellows has different sized frames front and rear. The standard bellows is tapered to reduce material.

Therefore, if you can find one, all you need is a 5x7 "Format Changing Kit" for your F1. The kit consists of a 5x7 rear frame and ground glass carrier, plus a standard bellows. You use your existing 4x5 rear rail carrier. If you get a Norma era conversion kit it will work perfectly with your F1 front standard, but you will need to make sure it includes a Norma rail carrier. Some are sold with, and some are sold without. Sinar sold a 5x7 'Expert' kit, which could do 5x7 and 4x5 but which only had two carriers for three standards: the front 4x5, rear 4x5 and rear 5x7.

Like Tor, I have seen many, many more P and Norma format changing kits than F ones, so if the price is right, don't be afraid to mix systems.

The Norma 5x7 backs and reducing backs use sliding locks much like the Graflok ones on international 4x5 cameras, but also have a pair of spring-loaded lugs that lock into a groove on the inside edge of the Norma 5x7 standard. This might get in the way on a later format frame (if, for example, you tried to use a Norma reducing back on an F format frame) but I suspect they would simply stay retracted and in any case they are easy to remove.

Finally, if you want to use very large portrait lenses you might want to get two 5x7 standards. Sinar used to sell a special 5x7 lensboard to use big lenses on the 5x7 standard and although these are hard to find used there is a Swiss seller selling their own ones on eBay.de. This gives you a bigger hole and a sturdier standard. You would have to get a custom bellows made (Sinar sold 10x8-5x7 and 4x5-5x7 bellows, but not I think 5x7-5x7) but that wouldn't be too hard a job for a bellows maker like Camera Bellows in England.

[Ron Marshall]

Thanks Struan. I have seen various 5x7 Sinar bits and pieces on ebay so with patience I should be able to get what I need.