Cambo 4x5...how to know how wide you can go

[AdamD]

Hi.
I have a Cambo 4x5 monorail along with a 150mm Fuji lens. I'd really like a 90mm, but I'm not sure it will work.

So here's my question...how can I know if a 90mm lens can be focused at infinity andstill allow for movements?

So maybe forget I said anything about the Cambo. Just in general, are there measurements I can look at on any camera to tell you for sure?

I can say this, when I have the tripod mount between the two standards (most stable) the closest I can get them is 125mm apart. Bag bellows won't get me closer because the two standards butt into the tripod mount. I thought (might be wrong) but I thought that that minimum distance represents the smallest focal length lens you can use straight though with no movements. So in my case I could use a 125mm fixed but nothing wider.

This seems both correct and strange.

If I move the two standards to one side of the tripod mount, I think I can get to less than 100mm, but honestly, it's not the most stable and a bit goofy.

Anyway, anyone out there that can explain how/what to look at on a camera to know what the widest (and longest) lens will work?

Thx!!
Adam

[Louis Pacilla]

As I recall the trick is to move both standards to one side of the rail clamp so the standards can be moved as close as necessary for infinity focus or closer focus.

[Dan Fromm]

Lou is right. I have 2x3 and 4x5 Cambo SCs. When the tripod mounting block is positioned between the standards it limits how closely they can approach each other. The solution is, as the OP suggested, to put the tripod mounting block in front of the front standard. To measure the minimum extension, assemble the camera, move the standards together, use a depth gauge (really, a ruler is good enough) to measure the distance between the front of the lens board (you'll need a board that's been bored with no lens mounted) and the ground glass. I measure it at around 40 mm without bellows. There are thin and relatively thick Cambo bag bellows.

Shortest lens? I started out shooting 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics so my lenses are on 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic boards. My shortest lens for those cameras is a 35/4.5 Apo-Grandagon. I was gifted a 2x3 Cambo SC, had an adapter made to let me attach 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic boards to a 2x3 SC front standard. When I decided to go 6x12 I bought a 4x5 SC, cobbled up a hybrid Cambo. 2x3 front standard, 4x5 rear standard, tapered bellows between. I made a tapered bag bellows (story here: http://www.galerie-photo.com/bag-bellows.html), can use the 35 on a flat board on the hybrid. Minimal movements. Full movements with slightly longer lenses such as 47/5.6 SA.

[Oslolens]

Hi.
I have a Cambo 4x5 monorail
If I move the two standards to one side of the tripod mount, I think I can get to less than 100mm


I used 90mm with Cambo and later a wide angle 150mm with a 8x10 Bender this way. The way I balanced them was to use a tripod rail forward from tripod mount to the tripod clamp. Any wider, and you will need a recessed lens board.

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[Michael77]

Hi it works well to move both standards on the same side of the clamp with a 90mm ; just check the proper balance
Usefull for an 90mm lens without wide angle bellows (bag bellow ? in french it's soufflet ballon) and flat lensboard
Of course better with a bag bellow from 90mm to 65 mm without problem together with a recessed board
.

[AdamD]

Hi all,

Ok....so I'm going to give this another look. Thank you also for confirming the measurement points. I've been doing it right.

So it probably means I can get away with a 90mm!! Pretty cool.

I'm getting great results with the 150mm using Ilford FP4+, Kodak E100 and Kodak Ektar 100.

[Dan Fromm]

So it probably means I can get away with a 90mm!!

Not probably. Certainly.

[AdamD]

Hi again,

I moved both standards to one side of the tripod mount and pulled a measurement standard to standard. I'm going to try to post pictures, but I've never had luck doing that in this forum ��.

Anyway, the two standards minimum distance is 3.5" or just under 90mm. So, it seems to me a 90mm will just barely work straight through and not allow for movements. Let me try pictures now.....

[AdamD]

209786

209787

209788

Holy crap it worked!!!!

[AdamD]

So notice in the side view, the two standards are butt up to each others. So I cannot get them physically closer even though the bellows still have some room to give.

[Dan Fromm]

Hi again,

I moved both standards to one side of the tripod mount and pulled a measurement standard to standard. I'm going to try to post pictures, but I've never had luck doing that in this forum ��.

Anyway, the two standards minimum distance is 3.5" or just under 90mm. So, it seems to me a 90mm will just barely work straight through and not allow for movements. Let me try pictures now.....

You have set the camera up correctly. For set up, see https://static.cambo.com/Files/SC2_Manual.pdf

If you reverse the rear standard, with no bellows fitted the two function carriers (the parts of the standards that accept lens board/back and bellows) can be made to touch. This will seem to make shooting in landscape impossible, for that you need the stupid Cambo trick. Lay the camera on its side. Remember, the rail is square and the tripod mounting block doesn't care whether the camera is upright or on its side. You may need a bag bellows to get much movement.

It is a modular camera. Take advantage of the modularity.

[BrianShaw]

Bag bellows and recessed lens board will give you a bit more relief and flexibility.

[AdamD]

You have set the camera up correctly. For set up, see https://static.cambo.com/Files/SC2_Manual.pdf

If you reverse the rear standard, with no bellows fitted the two function carriers (the parts of the standards that accept lens board/back and bellows) can be made to touch. This will seem to make shooting in landscape impossible, for that you need the stupid Cambo trick. Lay the camera on its side. Remember, the rail is square and the tripod mounting block doesn't care whether the camera is upright or on its side. You may need a bag bellows to get much movement.

It is a modular camera. Take advantage of the modularity.

I have to be totally honest with you, but I'm confused by your post. I think you are saying that the rear standard can be flipped around? If so, I once tried this, but the vertical posts of the standard got in the way of getting the film holders in place.

I think I need a video or photos of someone else's rig to see a different way.

I just need to buy a field camera!!! LOL...

[Dan Fromm]

I have to be totally honest with you, but I'm confused by your post. I think you are saying that the rear standard can be flipped around? If so, I once tried this, but the vertical posts of the standard got in the way of getting the film holders in place..

That's right. If you look at the back, you'll see that it is what is called a reversible back. You can remove it -- same process as removing a lens board or detaching the bellows -- and rotate it by 90 degrees and re-attach it so that the insertion end of the back points up. At this point, you'll be able to insert the film holder. However, the film will be in portrait, i.e., the long edge will be vertical. If you want landscape, with long edge of the film horizontal lay the camera on its side.

Play with it a bit and you'll understand what I've just told you.

[AdamD]

OOOOHHHH! I GOT IT NOW.

See, that's totally out of the box (pun intended) thinking. My skill and knowledge is barely in a box....but I get it now.

I'll give that a look.

Seems like a pain in the ass and yet further justification I need a different camera, but solving problems is always fun!!

Many thanks Dan.

[Dan Fromm]

OOOOHHHH! I GOT IT NOW.

See, that's totally out of the box (pun intended) thinking. My skill and knowledge is barely in a box....but I get it now.

Congratulations. Its what we all do.

[jonby]

You would need the bag bellows for movements. I have one of these (or at least a version of) and use it with an 89mm lens in the configuration you have here with bag bellows. You can get quite a bit of movement - more likely to be restricted by the lens than the camera.
There is another hack you can try, which (I think) allows you to leave the standards on either side of the tripod mount, but it only works with portrait orientation. If you take the bellows and back off and swing the rear standard 180 degrees, the back gets much closer to the lens. The bellows and back still fit because the mount is the same for both. Only trouble is, you can only get a film holder in in the vertical orientation.

[schafphoto]

OR you can go wider if... you can get your hands on the OLD Cambo "double lock" standards.

That's what I have on my 4x5/5x7 Cambo custom HABS camera. Since a large proportion of HABS/HAER photography requires wide angle lenses, (and it's harder to fiddle with the shutters in recessed lens boards) I rebuilt my camera with the rear standard shifted forward (custom) and then utilized a circa 1970 OLD-style double locking standard. 47mm and 55mm lens, no problem. My 55 and my 72mm don't need to be in recessed boards. (I'll post a photo later). The OLD-style double locks were a feature meant to allow the front/rear shift to be controlled by two separate locks. (PHOTO 1 and 2) The drawback of this early design being that the swings became off axis. It didn't take long for Cambo to redesign this flaw.

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(photo 1 OLD-style double lock (wide angle) standards)

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(photo 2 OLD-style double lock (wide angle) standards)

But the great feature of the OLD-style was that the standards were able to be compressed further because they were offset. With a bag bellows, recessed lensboard, non-rotating 4x5 back and the double-lock (wide angle) standards, the rear element of most lenses would touch the ground glass. And you never need to move the rail clamp.

Here's the other configurations:

Normal standards are aligned on axis at the center of the standard and the center lock controls both swing and shift. (Single Lock)

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(Single (simple) locking Cambo/Calumet standards)

NEW-style double locking Cambo standards came out later in the 1970s, these NEW-style double locks were on axis and the offset standards seem to have been discontinued based on years of looking for more modern versions and never seeing any that looked newer than around 1970s.

213462
(NEW-style Cambo double locking standards)

[schafphoto]

BTW, one on the (many) cameras Julius Shulman used was a wide angle version of the Calumet 4X5 CC402 (with spacers offsetting the front standard rearward) Like this one at KEH:
213463

[schafphoto]

Here's my heavily modified HABS-HAER-HALS camera with a front standard that utilizes the NEW-style double lock knob on the side and the shift lock from an even older 1960s era SuperCambo with the lever with a ball tip. Polished to shiny aluminum for no particular reason. 72mm XL lens on a flat board. Yellow measuring tape on board serves no purpose except that the lenses are color-coded on the edges of the lens-boards and the 72mm is yellow.
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(I have since abandoned the LEE filter holder for the Benro.)

Custom rear standard is a Cambo 5x7 frame attached directly to a Stabila level with no movements. Which permits the 5x7 and 4x5 reduction backs to interchange. (4x5 Bosscreen version shown.
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[schafphoto]

So notice in the side view, the two standards are butt up to each others. So I cannot get them physically closer even though the bellows still have some room to give.

Adam, your camera has a rotating 4x5 back that adds to the distance inside the camera. If you get the non-rotating 4x5 back you'll gain a few millimeters. Bag bellows will definitely help. If you find bag bellows (soufflet ballon) in nylon (new style) it will be slightly less thick than the leather version and give you the most possible movement. There are some old Cambo lens boards that have only a 11mm recess instead of 20mm, this can help if you need a little relief but still need to get gloved fingers in the recess to set the aperture. These tips are splitting hairs but this forum post will be around for a long time and someone will probably need an extra millimeter someday.

[AdamD]

Adam, your camera has a rotating 4x5 back that adds to the distance inside the camera. If you get the non-rotating 4x5 back you'll gain a few millimeters. Bag bellows will definitely help. If you find bag bellows (soufflet ballon) in nylon (new style) it will be slightly less thick than the leather version and give you the most possible movement. There are some old Cambo lens boards that have only a 11mm recess instead of 20mm, this can help if you need a little relief but still need to get gloved fingers in the recess to set the aperture. These tips are splitting hairs but this forum post will be around for a long time and someone will probably need an extra millimeter someday.

Thank you for the tip.
I found that even with bag bellows the limiting factor on how-wide-I-can-go was the center tripod mount. The physical stop prevents the two standards from coming closer than about 125mm or so. I found that if I moved the two standards to one side of the tripod mount, the entire camera assembly just was not particularly stable. Usable, yes, stable, not so much. Likely this has more to do with my standard DSLR tripod mounting plate and receiver head, but still, that's what I had to work with.

To improve that meant spending more money to improve my mounting and stability AND to also need bag bellows.

I decided it was time for an upgrade.

I got an Arca-Swiss F-Line Classic now. I also upgraded my tripod head to the Z1. Now that rig is stable!!!!! It's been a good upgrade. But I have to say the single best reason the upgrade has been the Arca-Swiss MicroOrbix feature. This speeds up focusing by a factor of 4. It's so flippen fast to get the focus dead on in seconds when using tilt. Other than that, the other big advantage is faster setup time. I went from 4 minutes on the Cambo to about 1 minute on the F-Line. With the AS standard bellows I can get down to a 90mm and up to about 360mm easy (500 on a tele).

Right now the Cambo sits and waits for the next convert to large format!!

I will pass on your tip.

Thx.