Tiny Black Specs on Arista EDU Ultra 100

[Timmyjoe]

Been shooting a new box of Arista EDU Ultra 100 in 2.25" x 3.25". First three images I processed came out with these tiny little "pepper" specs throughout on the negative. Shot some of this film in this size a few years ago and don't remember this problem. First two processed in Rodinal, last processed in HC-110. Did a double filter of my fixer after the first two images, which didn't seem to help the situation. Most noticeable in a couple night sky shots which were long exposures (2.25 minutes each). Wondering if it's "light noise" from random light, or possibly distant stars that weren't noticeable to the naked eye, or dirty fixer (which is why I filtered it for the last shot which made no difference). Or if it's possibly this film. I've read not so glowing reviews about the quality control of the film batches. See attached images.

Has anyone noticed something similar with Arista EDU Ultra 100?

Best,
-Tim

Image
209271

Zoom in on specs
209272

[koraks]

There are some posts about similar issues on photrio with this film. But this was in 120 format, not sheet film. In sheet film I've had the occasional blank spot (rendering black in print), but that's something else from what you're seeing. Like you said, there are sometimes qc/consistency issues with foma films of different kinds.

[Willie]

Can't be random stars as it shows on the solid surface of solid objects.

Dust on the film surface when you took the image, possibly.

What water do you use to mix the developer? Possible to have small bits of dirt/gunk in tap water. More possible if you use a water filter that is "charcoal/carbon" to help with taste.

[ic-racer]

I have noticed a lot of imperfections in bargain film. I'm hoping that imperfections in cheap 8x10 film will become a desirable aesthetic like the crummy appearance of wet-plate that everyone loves. :)

[Timmyjoe]

Thanks for the replies. I use bottled drinking water (Hinkley Schmitt) for mixing developer and for mixing fixer. Only use tap water for pre-soak, and stop, and final wash, then Photo-Flo mixed with bottled water. Using the same chemicals and process on Tri-X 35mm rolls, no "pepper" specs. Just on this Arista EDU Ultra 100. Maybe I got a bad batch. 2.25" x 3.25" getting tough to come by these days.

Thanks again.

Best,
-Tim

[ericantonio]

Been shooting a new box of Arista EDU Ultra 100 in 2.25" x 3.25". First three images I processed came out with these tiny little "pepper" specs throughout on the negative. Shot some of this film in this size a few years ago and don't remember this problem. First two processed in Rodinal, last processed in HC-110. Did a double filter of my fixer after the first two images, which didn't seem to help the situation. Most noticeable in a couple night sky shots which were long exposures (2.25 minutes each). Wondering if it's "light noise" from random light, or possibly distant stars that weren't noticeable to the naked eye, or dirty fixer (which is why I filtered it for the last shot which made no difference). Or if it's possibly this film. I've read not so glowing reviews about the quality control of the film batches. See attached images.

Has anyone noticed something similar with Arista EDU Ultra 100?

Best,
-Tim

Image
209271

Zoom in on specs
209272

YEP, had this earlier this year. Contacted Freestyle and emulsion number...I have a thread and I tested with new dev, new stop, new fixer, different dev, etc etc. It was a new box of EdU 400. People had same EXACT problem with Foma and 120 film. Long story short, it's not something you are doing wrong, def an emulsion problem. Sent mine back to Freestyle and got a new box and no problems

[Timmyjoe]

Hi ericantonio, Thanks for the reply. Would love to look thru the thread you posted on this issue(never mind, I found it, and that is exactly what I am seeing). Unfortunately this was the last box Freestyle had, so I could maybe get money back, but not replacement. Trying to be patient until the Ilford is available early next year.

Best,
-Tim

[Timmyjoe]

Here is ericantonio's post on this same issue.

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?158647-What-can-cause-TINY-TINY-white-spots-on-a-neg&highlight=Arista

Best,
-Tim

[LabRat]

Regular user of EDU/Foma here, and had this issue with the 6X9 ISO film specks... Noted there might be film cutting issues leaving a sloppy edge with debris (esp around film notch cut-out area)...

Did have success by running my finger around edges of film before loading into holders, and rapping sheet hard on tabletop to dislodge specks... That worked, but still annoyed the notch is so big, it goes into image area...

Have less trouble with the 4X5 size...

I regularly wash each sheet of film under water stream hose to release particles during wash (esp edge areas) and has worked... Use of a hardening fixer also holds these specks in their place on edge...

Have also noticed this can happen with other brands of film, especially 35mm with all of those perf holes that can retain debris...

Steve K

[Timmyjoe]

Hi Steve, These appear to be in the emulsion, not loose specks laying on the film.

Best,
-Tim

[LabRat]

Hi Steve, These appear to be in the emulsion, not loose specks laying on the film.

Best,
-Tim

Also, are you using a stop bath, or just water stop??? This made a difference...

Steve K

[Timmyjoe]

Hi Steve, Tried it both ways, made no difference on my negs. What difference did you see? I was using Kodak's Indicator Stop Bath.

Best,
-Tim

[LabRat]

I had pinholes with acid stop bath... It can be from gases evolved in an acid environment from emulsion... Even in a very mild stop bath, it can happen... Read instruction sheet, but even in the very weak acid solution, I have seen it happen, but not in plain water...

Still good film, but picky about some process stuff...

Steve K

[Timmyjoe]

Hi Steve,

Maybe you didn't read my initial post. These aren't pinholes. These are black specs, in the emulsion. When you hold the negative up to the light, it looks like someone sprinkled finely ground black pepper all over the neg. Doesn't rub or wipe off. It's somehow in the emulsion.

209365 209366

Best,
-Tim

[Drew Wiley]

The only Arista that speed I've ever used was way back when it was simply private labeled FP4. Now it's all Fomapan. And I have had problems with tiny emulsion zits and fine parallel scratches or cracking on two different batches of 200 speed Foma/Arista sheet film, so quite using that brand entirely. The one time I tried 400 speed sheets, I simply didn't care much for the results.

[Timmyjoe]

YEP, had this earlier this year. Contacted Freestyle and emulsion number...I have a thread and I tested with new dev, new stop, new fixer, different dev, etc etc. It was a new box of EdU 400. People had same EXACT problem with Foma and 120 film. Long story short, it's not something you are doing wrong, def an emulsion problem. Sent mine back to Freestyle and got a new box and no problems

Hi ericantonio, I contacted Freestyle and sent them two scans and they agreed with what you were saying, it is a bad batch, so they refunded my money. They have no more in stock, so I'll have to wait until after the first of the year, when they are supposed to get some more 2.25 x 3.25 sheet film in stock.

Best,
-Tim

[ericantonio]

Hi ericantonio, I contacted Freestyle and sent them two scans and they agreed with what you were saying, it is a bad batch, so they refunded my money. They have no more in stock, so I'll have to wait until after the first of the year, when they are supposed to get some more 2.25 x 3.25 sheet film in stock.

Best,
-Tim

That's great! They said that mine was first they heard and I mentioned LFF forum having problems with Foma. I gave them my emulsion number etc, and said don't be surprised if people come and have the same problem. Great they did that. It's neat store in LA, they have classes and gallery out on the side of the store.

[rrunnertexas]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50611212416_1ee8b3de00_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k7kGbC)Blair Compact Wolly WA Farm Tree (https://flic.kr/p/2k7kGbC) by rrunnertexas (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18736302@N03/), on Flickr


Fresh box of Arista EDU 5x7 - about 10 sheets of the 50 have this effect. Before reading this thread I thought it was something I was doing wrong, however, it appears they were having a bad day at the Arista factory in multiple formats. Well, it is unique to see all those stars before sunset.:rolleyes:

[Timmyjoe]

Hi rrunnertexas, sorry to hear you are having the same issue. Are you saying it only effected 10 of the 50 sheets, or that you've only shot 10 of the 50 sheets, and all your images have had the issue?

Best,
-Tim

[rrunnertexas]

Tim,

I have shot all 50 sheets - some did not have much of the spots and others look really bad, like the above. Perhaps I can call Freestyle and see if they will help me out? Only thing is all the time and travel spent creating the images and to have the spots is really disappointing. A good excuse to go back out shooting! Maybe this time with some FP4+.

[Jim Noel]

No such thing as "noise" in film. That is a digital term

[Timmyjoe]

Tim,

I have shot all 50 sheets - some did not have much of the spots and others look really bad, like the above. Perhaps I can call Freestyle and see if they will help me out? Only thing is all the time and travel spent creating the images and to have the spots is really disappointing. A good excuse to go back out shooting! Maybe this time with some FP4+.

I don't think I'd be shooting the Arista EDU if it weren't for that being the only film available right now in the 2.25" x 3.25" sheet size. If I were shooting 4x5 I'd go with Tri-X or one of the Ilfords. Arista just seems too dodgy with the quality control. And I agree with you, I was lucky that I found the problem when I was just doing some test shots. If I had spent time and money to travel and got back home and realized the film I was using was bad from the factory, I would be really upset.

Best,
-Tim

[Dugan]

FYI, Shanghai does a ULF program similar to Ilford, and 2x3 is one of the sizes available to order.

[urnem57]

Apparently this problem lives on. A box of 4x5 from Freestyle & a box from B&H both show these. There’s a reason that this costs 1/2 of what every other 4x5 film costs. First it was bad Xtol and now this. I tried switching chemicals, mixing fresh chemicals, distilled water, and they persisted. I finally packed up my negs & scans and went to Freestyle. I had read this thread, but wasn’t 100% convinced. Yet. When I asked for help with a developing problem, the first words out of the guy’s mouth were, “Is it Foma?” Good thing I was only using it for tests.

[jmdavis]

Do the people in Europe have these issues with the branded FOMA? I've recently wondered that. I just wish that I could get Forte 200 in 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10

[Carl45]

Do the people in Europe have these issues with the branded FOMA? I've recently wondered that. I just wish that I could get Forte 200 in 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10
I have this issue with a box of Foma 400 4x5 in the UK Only just started with large format and developed 15 sheets so far and the last 2 were covered in black spots.

[lassethomas]

Do the people in Europe have these issues with the branded FOMA? I've recently wondered that. I just wish that I could get Forte 200 in 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10

Gone thru about 5 boxes of Foma 100, 200 and 400 in 4x5 and about 50 120 rolls of Foma 100 and 400 without any problem.

[koraks]

Do the people in Europe have these issues with the branded FOMA? I've recently wondered that. I just wish that I could get Forte 200 in 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10
With 4x5, I encounter the occasional pinhole in Fomapan 100. Every couple of dozen sheets or so, and it's always just one single, tiny pinhole.
Fomapan 400 & 200 in 4x5: no defects noticed yet.

Fomapan 100 in 120 size no issues.
Fomapan 200 in 120 size: persistent and unacceptable problems with emulsion defects showing up as tiny black specks all across the image area. Foma indicated it was indeed an emulsion problem, replaced my film, which turned out to suffer from the same problem.

Fomapan 100 & 400 in 135 format: no issues.