(possibly) taking the large jump

[ulf bech]

Hi all,

I am quite new here, though I have been reading these forums for quite some time. Now I have almost made the decision to take the plunge into large format, even though I am still undecided in regard to all equipment. I currently (and will continue) shoot 135 film on an M5, and enjoy developing on my Focomat V35 once in a while :)

I am so lucky to have a baby on the way :D Unfortunately, as I live in a rather small apartment, this means that I have to scale down a bit on my photo equipment, which again means that I am trying to sell my enlarger :( However, If i do take the plunge into large format, I am contemplating buying the intrepid enlarger as an (probably inferior) replacement for this. While I realize that this enlarger is a bit more difficult to work with, I find that the smaller size might make it worth it as I do not have a permanent darkroom and only develop 2-3 times a year (probably less in the coming years - partly due to the enlarger being moved to a friends basement) My problem is that I have not really been able to find any reviews or elaborate opinions on it. Do any of you know anything about it - is it worth getting for my limited use, or should i just rent my way into a darkroom once in a while? :)

Also, after I figure the enlarger question out I hope you can help me choose what else get along with it

[minh0204]

I have the Intrepid enlarger. While it's small, setting it up to print is a massive hassle, especially if you don't have a good copy stand or a geared head to align the enlarger parallel with your print surface. In the end the space saving is irrelevant. Unless you're a seasoned printer, I'd avoid it.

Many large format shooters employ a hybrid workflow: shoot, develop, scan, print. That simplifies the space requirement by a significant amount. Since the neg is large, even a cheap scanner like the Epson v600 is sufficient.

I think you already know this, but Ilford has a website that you can use to look for local darkrooms for hire https://www.localdarkroom.com/ .

[Fred L]

I'd suggest looking into 5x7 (am presuming you're shooting 4x5) and making contacts. I find 4x5 too small for contacts(ymmv) but 5x7 (and 8x10 for that matter) is almost a sweet spot.

[Alan9940]

I've never used the Intrepid enlarger, but I have used a DIY setup for 8x10 very similar to the Intrepid design. I can assure you (as noted above) that setup is a royal PITA and, even then, alignment can be an issue. Also, depending on enlargement size, focusing can be problematic due to the distances involved. I agree with Fred, although I believe and have made some quite lovely 4x5 contact prints.

[Thom Bennett]

You may want to think about strictly contact printing alt processes such as cyanotype, platinum/palladium, kallitype, etc. No need for an enlarger and you need minimal materials.

[ulf bech]

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies. I will most likely avoid the intrepid enlarger, as I understand that I might end up spending the majority of my darkroom-time setting it up as I will not be getting a copy stand due to the beforementioned space-constraints.

Thom, thank you for your suggestions as well. But for my beginnings I will prefer to start out a bit more basic, and rely on regular film :)

I am actually quite intrigued by 5x7 already, and one of my main considerations at the moment is getting a 5x7 with a 4x5 reducing back to allow me to practice on cheaper film. - Any suggestions for cameras? I will mainly be doing portraits and landscape. I have been looking at the intrepid 5x7, but i am quite sure that i will get annoyed with the imprecisions that one has to live with with this camera (also, while this may not be an accepted criterion, I really don't think the intrepid's are good looking cameras)

[Two23]

There are many older 5x7 cameras out there. They are not only solid but also beautiful. Main drawback to 5x7 is lack of color film.


Kent in SD

[jim_jm]

As Kent mentioned, there are many great older LF cameras out there. Often you can find 4x5 or 5x7 cameras for less than five hundred dollars, sometimes including the lens.
Many older cameras have been refurbished or restored, just be sure they have all parts and the bellows are light-tight. They work great for portraits and landscapes. Newer cameras tend to have more movements, but I rarely find the need to make any extreme adjustments.
If you're looking to start out simply and be able to make prints without an enlarger, I'd go with 5x7 for the larger negative. Contact printing is really easy and quick.

For size comparisons, here's my 8x10 Eastman View 2D (1947), 5x7 Eastman View (1915), 4x5 Shen-Hao (modern) and 4x5 Crown Graphic (1954)

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[Bertha DeCool]

Not the first to say, won't be the last; contact printing 5x7 and up is a viable alternative to enlarging.

For me, contacts of 4x5s were just that much too small and an enlarger-equipped darkroom that much too big. Having sort-of-inherited a 5x7 Kodak 2D last year, I'm now going to be selling a Crown Graphic and a batch of lenses I've used since 1980 with no regrets. 5x7 is a joy and contact prints are nicely sized little jewels.

BUT, no color. I've thought about cutting 8x10 down to 2 sheets 5x7 but honestly, I don't have a lot of need to shoot color and if I do, there's always 120 or 35mm.

[penguinoid]

I have the Intrepid 5x7 and so far have been happy with it. I haven't got out to use it as much as I'd like, but I've enjoyed using it so far. It's not as precise as other cameras, I guess, and can be a bit wobbly, but I personally find it to work more than well enough. You mileage may vary, of course. I also have a 4x5 reducing back that I plan to use for shooting colour (though I'll need to buy some film holders first); this seems to be the best compromise.

[ulf bech]

Thanks alm for your replies, they are tremendously helpful to me, even though I realise some of you may find them repetitive. I expect that I will mostly be using b&w film, so I can live with the limited options on colour film.

I am currently looking into “light” monorails, as I find I will probably get most value for money with those, and as I am young and therefore should be able to walk a bit with one despite of the added weight, and because I will most likely mostly be using the camera for indoor portraits.

With that in mind, I would like to hear your opinions on the Sinar f2 and the horseman L45 which are the main contenders at the moment, provided you do not have better suggestions. I find it difficult to find out if it is possible to mount 5x7 backs on those two though, which i will probably want to do once I know the basics. I am also finding it difficult to find out what a good price for either of those would be?

I have also looked at the Arca Swiss F and discovery, as well as the Toho VX125, but those will probably be more expensive than what I am willing to pay at the moment.

[Bernice Loui]

The Very Biased Opinion would be the Sinar system. Sinar Norma is a much nicer camera than the F, F1 or F2. The Sinar P is an excellent studio-maybe but iffy of outdoors camera due to bulk-weight size. One of the greatest advantages of the Sinar system is interchangeability. From Norma to P and all in-between, common film format sizes of 4x5_5x7_8x10 is easily interchangeable. Sinar system imposed the least requirements on lenses as it can easily accommodate lenses in a# 5 shutter, BIG barrel lenses using the Sinar shutter and a variety of bag bellows as need. Sinar has a recessed lens board if ever needed (this would be trying to use a 38mm lens on 8x10 or similar). There is little if any limits on rail and bellows length. it is modular and essentially interchangeable with what is needed not too difficult to obtain due to the sheer number of Sinar cameras and accessories sold over the decades. They were the camera of choice for the majority of studio image makers that produced countless commercial-ad-and more images.

Sinar Norma, Sinar shutter, 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar in barrel.
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Sinar wide angle and interchangeability.
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Been and done the Horseman L camera, it is an excellent camera, excellent value and some what interchangeable with Sinar. Ergonomically, the lef handed controls on the L as delivered never worked that ok with me, but this can be easily flipped to being right hand. IMO, a better choice and lower cost than a Sinar F. Limitations, essentially a 4x5 only system, the 5x7 variant is very rare (had one) and the 8x10 version is good, not common and not low cost. Excellent value, excellent camera but system limited in many ways.

Arca Swiss is a mixed bag, their cameras are excellent, light weight, ergonomically GOOD, interchangeable and all those good things. Limitations are cost and accessories availability. The Arca Swiss 6x9 remains the favorite mini view camera for a very long list of reasons.

Toyo VX is hybrid worth considering, this was one of the last Toyo efforts to design-produce a small light weight monorail camera with fewer of the common monorail camera limitations. This is a GOOD camera that is often forgotten and neglected. Limitations are availability, cost, accessories and limited to 4x5.


Benice




I am currently looking into “light” monorails, as I find I will probably get most value for money with those, and as I am young and therefore should be able to walk a bit with one despite of the added weight, and because I will most likely mostly be using the camera for indoor portraits.

With that in mind, I would like to hear your opinions on the Sinar f2 and the horseman L45 which are the main contenders at the moment, provided you do not have better suggestions. I find it difficult to find out if it is possible to mount 5x7 backs on those two though, which i will probably want to do once I know the basics. I am also finding it difficult to find out what a good price for either of those would be?

I have also looked at the Arca Swiss F and discovery, as well as the Toho VX125, but those will probably be more expensive than what I am willing to pay at the moment.

[Luis-F-S]

Have 3 4x5 F2’s best bang for the buck

[Two23]

For size comparisons, here's my 8x10 Eastman View 2D (1947), 5x7 Eastman View (1915), 4x5 Shen-Hao (modern) and 4x5 Crown Graphic (1954)

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I have a Kodak 2d 8x10, Gundlach korona 5x7, and Chamonix 4x5. Talk about a coincidence!


Kent in SD

[Vaughn]

I have a Kodak 2d 8x10, Gundlach korona 5x7, and Chamonix 4x5. Talk about a coincidence!Kent in SD

I have an 8x10 2D (but use the Zone VI unless I need the extra couple inches of bellows the 2D has), a 5x7 Eastman View No.2 (my primary 5x7, but have a 5x7 Norma I never use), and a pre-WWII 4x5 Speed (but my go-to for 4x5 is a Gowland PocketView field monorail). Alas...what happened to one camera-one lens?!:cool:

From 1979 to 1981, I learned 4x5 using Calumet rail cameras as well as Linhof and Graphic Views. I have carried awkward heavy rail cameras too many miles (looking like a Sherpa with the 4x5 camera case strapped to the top of the Kelty). 99% of my work is landscape, so my choices are driven by that.

[B.S.Kumar]

I haven't seen a Horseman 5x7 back in a long time. A Sinar F2 5x7 is easier to find, and thanks to the modularity, you can always get the Norma or P variety. The Arca Swiss is a fine option, though it wll be expensive. The Toyo VX125 is also a great option, though you will lose the advantage of its compactness when you add the 5x7 standard and back from a Toyo G. You might as well save on the money and get a Toyo D or G right from the beginning. The Toyo D is also quite compact when carried on its 6" rail.

Kumar

[Daniel Unkefer]

Sinar Norma, Sinar shutter, 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar in barrel.
209275Bernice

WOW now that is a Norma cool forward lens mount. Love it. That 500mm Tele-Xenar is expensive even in barrel. Quite a great snag for you.

What a beefy lens mount. Did you thread the front of it? Amazing workmanship :)