Gowlandflex question

[joelio]

Hello all -

I just picked up a 4x5 Gowlandflex TLR and cannot wait to jump into it. I’ve read through many of the Gowlandflex and Gowlandflex adjacent threads on here and appreciate everyone’s insight.

That being said, questions. ;)

1 - What era is this? I see what I think is PG’s serial number (587) and assume that it’s late era.

2 - Any insight into correcting potential focusing issues with this model? Same as here?

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?120245-Gowlandflex-Focusing-Strangeness&

I imagine that at some point I’ll have to recalibrate things. Hopefully later than sooner.

3 - Any thoughts re the knob sticking off of the back? It’s about half way up on the left.

I thank you all in advance!

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[Oren Grad]

This is an early-style 4x5 Gowlandflex, even though someone put on it a taking lens mounted in a later Copal shutter. Those Ilex Paragons could well have been original with the camera, but the Copal shutter most definitely is not.

Dunno what the thing that sticks out on the left above the back assembly is for. The 4x5 Gowlandflex in this style that I owned for a while did not have it. Take off the GG panel and see what, if anything, it's connected to inside the camera.

Test the camera and see whether you actually have any focusing problem before worrying about how to fix it.

And... find someone to pose for you and have some fun!

EDIT: looked at your website, I imagine you're used to finding people to pose for you. :)

[joelio]

This is an early-style 4x5 Gowlandflex, even though someone put on it a taking lens mounted in a later Copal shutter. Those Ilex Paragons could well have been original with the camera, but the Copal shutter most definitely is not.

Dunno what the thing that sticks out on the left above the back assembly is for. The 4x5 Gowlandflex in this style that I owned for a while did not have it. Take off the GG panel and see what, if anything, it's connected to inside the camera.

Test the camera and see whether you actually have any focusing problem before worrying about how to fix it.

And... find someone to pose for you and have some fun!

EDIT: looked at your website, I imagine you're used to finding people to pose for you. :)

Hey there-

Thank you for weighing in - I appreciate it. I took off the GG panel and was surprised to find the mysterious hardware secured by an interior nut for seemingly no purpose. No connection to anything. A dead end.

I made a few tests of static subjects that I hope to develop before the weekend is over. I attempted to photograph my son using available light and it was a disaster - he’s too squirrely and the old scuba viewer is difficult to use in open overcast sun. I think that using this with studio lighting (read modeling light) will be much more enjoyable.

Any thoughts re using a loooong loupe in tandem with the scuba viewer? I see a bunch of intriguing options on the auction site and wonder about sticking a long loupe into the scuba viewer to obtain critical focus. (The scuba viewer is about 5.5” long.)

Barring disaster I will share uploads soon.

Again, thank you!

Re finding sitters, the pandemic has not been kind. It’s a frustrating time to do the kind of portraiture that I enjoy the most - up close and personal, or the approximation of with a long lens.

[Oren Grad]

Any thoughts re using a loooong loupe in tandem with the scuba viewer? I see a bunch of intriguing options on the auction site and wonder about sticking a long loupe into the scuba viewer to obtain critical focus. (The scuba viewer is about 5.5” long.)

You may have trouble finding a long enough loupe, and the opening in the "scuba viewer" doesn't leave much maneuvering room. I need a pretty strong correction for near-sightedness, and at this point in my life I find the scuba viewer more or less unusable either with or without my glasses. I remove it, drape a BTZS focusing hood over the top of the camera and either eyeball the glass directly from very close with my eyeglasses removed or use the same loupes that I use with other LF cameras.

Something else to do as you're getting started: set up a test target and compare the view on the top of the camera with what shows up on the GG on the back at typical working distances, so you can get a feel for the magnitude of parallax between the viewing and taking lenses. You may find it helpful to make some simple correction markings on the viewing glass.


Re finding sitters, the pandemic has not been kind. It’s a frustrating time to do the kind of portraiture that I enjoy the most - up close and personal...

Indeed. < sigh > Looking forward to better times...

[Tin Can]

There were a few variations made https://www.petergowland.com/about

Mine came without lenboards, which screwed in like yours

The upper lens can be adjusted by shimming and moving the mirror

The front surface mirror is delicate, mine has dust...obviously

These were studio cameras used with flash, either handheld or...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50552102922_5f1e534146_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k27JZq)GOW 2 (1) (https://flic.kr/p/2k27JZq) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50551974481_ca4bca40ee_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k275NV)GOW 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2k275NV) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

I will be rebuilding mine as I now have better parts

[Bob Salomon]

There were a few variations made https://www.petergowland.com/about

Mine came without lenboards, which screwed in like yours

The upper lens can be adjusted by shimming and moving the mirror

The front surface mirror is delicate, mine has dust...obviously

These were studio cameras used with flash, either handheld or...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50552102922_5f1e534146_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k27JZq)GOW 2 (1) (https://flic.kr/p/2k27JZq) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50551974481_ca4bca40ee_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k275NV)GOW 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2k275NV) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

I will be rebuilding mine as I now have better parts

I got mine back when I had a studio in the mid 60s. It came without lenses and I decided to call Peter Gowland the next day to order a pair. So at 9 AM when I got to my office in CT I called Peter. He didn’t use an answering machine. I woke him up as he was in CA! He called me back a few hours later.

[joelio]

Does anyone have advice on the thumbscrew mentioned here?

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?69858-Gowlandflex-vertical-shots-L-bracket

My Gowlandflex was advertised with portrait orientation Graflok photographs though arrived with it mounted in landscape. Hopefully this is something fantastically obvious.

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Thank you in advance.

[Tin Can]

Just checked mine again

It has 2 thumbscrews that do nothing and the black felt on this one covers the area where it could swivel

Portraits are usually shot vertically

Peter Gowland shot a lot of swimsuit models in studio

Buy one of his old magazines on ebay (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=peter+gowland&_sacat=0)

I have

[joelio]

Just checked mine again

It has 2 thumbscrews that do nothing and the black felt on this one covers the area where it could swivel

Portraits are usually shot vertically

Peter Gowland shot a lot of swimsuit models in studio

Buy one of his old magazines on ebay (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=peter+gowland&_sacat=0)

I have

I am primarily interested - scratch that - only interested in using this for portraiture and in portrait orientation. I’m waiting to hear back from the seller re their experience with changing the Graflok’s orientation though don’t feel any magical thumbscrews in the felt.

Thanks for weighing in! I’ll check out the magazines, too.

[joelio]

Hello all -

The friendly folks at Catlabs clarified their success with rotating the Graflok - no tools necessary, just firmly twist from the corners into portrait orientation.

Beautiful!

Thanks, all, for the help. You are all incredible.

V/R,

[joelio]

Hey all - yet another question.

Is there a problem with storing this camera on its back (horizontally, lenses pointed up)? Or am I courting issues with the viewing lens mirror alignment or sone other unknown danger?

I was hoping to keep the camera in a padded video camera shoulder bag with a doctor opening. I was hoping to avoid the camera living in a gigantic Tenba case that arguably doesn’t lend itself to getting out into the field.

Thank you, all!

[cowanw]

My math is becoming suspect but a 6 diopter monocle or reading glasses should focus at 6 inchesish and help with the focusing hood.

[joelio]

My math is becoming suspect but a 6 diopter monocle or reading glasses should focus at 6 inchesish and help with the focusing hood.

Thanks for the tip - I will have to look into picking up some readers! I was hoping that I wouldn't cross into reading glasses territory until later in life though suppose that my entry would be marked by an asterisk if used primarily for focusing a camera. :)

[joelio]

Heeeeeello all -

I’ve shot a dozen sheets of film and unfortunately am pretty frustrated - my lenses appear to be out of collimation. Or sync. Or something. ;)

The following Spydercal target was photographed at f 16, mounted on a rock solid tripod, and focused with the aid of a loupe. Pretty back focused, eh?

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All of my photographs focused on my patient sitter’s eyes are back focused on the hair on the side of his head. Glorious, sharply focused hair.

After reading the old calibration thread again I woke up early and checked my camera for the existence of the screw under the reflex mirror and found the following - is this it?

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Before I muck this up, is that the screw for adjusting the viewing lens ground glass? Is it folly to attempt working on this myself?

As always, a huge thank you to all involved.

[Tin Can]

Gowlandflex were often customized at the tiny factory, the list was long, I may have it somewhere in Digital hell, but it would not help you

Meaning variations abound and your camera may have different lenses from the original calibrated setup

Check your focus both at the rear GG and top GG at least 3 distances, they must match

All I know is mine has no little knob for quick calibration of anything

and the flat cam probably has only one sweet spot

Shimming one lens MAY solve the problem, but there are also bad lenses

Buyer beware always

[joelio]

Gowlandflex were often customized at the tiny factory, the list was long, I may have it somewhere in Digital hell, but it would not help you

Meaning variations abound and your camera may have different lenses from the original calibrated setup

Check your focus both at the rear GG and top GG at least 3 distances, they must match

All I know is mine has no little knob for quick calibration of anything

and the flat cam probably has only one sweet spot

Shimming one lens MAY solve the problem, but there are also bad lenses

Buyer beware always

Thank you for the tips - I appreciate it. I primarily am looking to use it for head and shoulders portraits so if a sweet spot is inevitable I would prefer for it to land closer than further away.

I am planning on checking the focus for both lenses later today and will do so at multiple distances. Suddenly my view camera is a joy to use in comparison.

Do you think that the screw that I photographed and posted is used for adjusting the ground glass? Or may it be a red herring?

Thank you!

[Tin Can]

I am sure that screw does not adjust GG

That would be a really bad idea on any camera

Gowland used standard Speed Graphic Graflok back on the 4x5 models, there were seven 8X10 made

Read this https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/graphicbacks.htm

[joelio]

I am sure that screw does not adjust GG

That would be a really bad idea on any camera

Gowland used standard Speed Graphic Graflok back on the 4x5 models, there were seven 8X10 made

Read this https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/graphicbacks.htm

Thank you for the info - I appreciate it.

I am not a TLR aficionado. Are these collimation problems also common with Rollei and Mamiya TLRs?

I will share the results of the target tests ASAP.

[Tin Can]

I have no problems with my TLR Mamiya or my $30 Yashicas

In fact I prefer the cheap Yashica 6X6, my 4x4 is not worth bothering with

Colimnation may be the wrong terminology for syncing 2 lenses

Here's more obfuscation https://www.rangefinderforum.com/classics/forum/messages/2/17771.html?1331432585

[joelio]

This is fascinating stuff - thank you. I think that you are correct re misusing "collimate" and I will use a different word or phrase going forward.

I cannot wait to get the testing rolling later today. I am curious if this camera is accurately paired at some longer focussing range.

[Oren Grad]

Unlike some Gowlandflexes, yours has matched viewing and taking lenses. That doesn't mean the actual focal lengths are identical - there can be sample variation - but it means that a large focal length mismatch is unlikely. If they are the same or very close to it, then the mismatch will persist throughout the focusing range.

I think the likeliest explanation is that the taking and viewing lenses are not properly adjusted to match flange focal distances. Since you're reporting that the on-film image is back-focused relative to what you see on the GG, it appears that the taking lens needs a bit more extension. Certainly I would start with the viewfinder vs rear GG test that Tin Can proposes, and see what you find. But if the error that you reported from your initial film tests is confirmed, I would try adjusting the mounting of the taking lens before messing with the mirror.

[joelio]

Unlike some Gowlandflexes, yours has matched viewing and taking lenses. That doesn't mean the actual focal lengths are identical - there can be sample variation - but it means that a large focal length mismatch is unlikely. If they are the same or very close to it, then the mismatch will persist throughout the focusing range.

I think the likeliest explanation is that the taking and viewing lenses are not properly adjusted to match flange focal distances. Since you're reporting that the on-film image is back-focused relative to what you see on the GG, it appears that the taking lens needs a bit more extension. Certainly I would start with the viewfinder vs rear GG test that Tin Can proposes, and see what you find. But if the error that you reported from your initial film tests is confirmed, I would try adjusting the mounting of the taking lens before messing with the mirror.

Thank you for weighing in - I appreciate it. I am going to run through a few low-risk tests tonight though fear that this may quickly jump above my comfort level.

[joelio]

I just compared the viewing ground glass and the taking ground glass from head and shoulders head portrait distance (about six feet or so) and waste up portrait (about 12 feet) - from both distances, the picture taking and viewing ground glass are completely unpaired.

I suspect that the previous owner either lived with the focusing issue and compensated for it (achieve guesstimate focus with the viewing lens and rack it out a bit before exposure) or shelved this camera long ago.

An odd discovery - the picture taking ground glass is far easier to achieve focus on. I think that the reflex mirror may need a real cleaning.

[grat]

I admit total ignorance of all things Gowland... but are both the ground glasses oriented the same? ie, frosted side towards the lens (or not) on both assemblies?

[joelio]

I admit total ignorance of all things Gowland... but are both the ground glasses oriented the same? ie, frosted side towards the lens (or not) on both assemblies?

No luck. That would have made my year - I’d love an easy fix! ;)

Thank you.