Going Long on 5x7

[sperdynamite]

To buttress the going wide post, I'm interested in a telephoto design for my 5x7 Chamonix. I've never used the T type lenses. Are there any that you can particularly recommend? I have a 300mm 5.6 Caltar, so preferably a good bit longer that that. I've sort of gravitated to tele lenses lately for my landscape stuff. It's just so much easier to make a simplified composition without all that pesky foreground.

[MAubrey]

There are the Schendier 360mm f/5.5 Tele-Xenar & Tele-Artar. Both heavy. The Artar is better, but also heavier.

Nikkor's 360/8, 500/11, 720/16 trio is really really good and has the advantage of modern ED glass. It's in a Copal #1, so the size/weight of the 360mm f/8 compares well to the Schenider lenses in size/weight, too.

Fuji has its tele lenses, too. I don't have experience with them though.

[Willie]

Have shot a few with the Fuji 400 tele on 5x7 and it works OK.(going back over old Chromes and notes - the 600mm Fuji also) After a comparison with the Nikkor 360/500/720 - using the 500 glass, I went with the Nikkor. (I have not tried the 360 element) Nothing wrong with the Fuji. The Nikkor seemed to give a touch more contrast to the chromes when I compared them. The 720 element of the Nikkor is usable on 8x10 as well. No movements but it does cover. On 5x7 it is really nice and the light weight makes for easier carrying along with the 500 so I am more likely to have it with me.

[sperdynamite]

Very cool, I'll look for the Nikkor set at some point. Seems like a good investment if I can get 720 on both my 8x10 and 5x7.

[Kiwi7475]

Realistically for my taste the 720mm is a bit too prone to atmospheric effects impacting resolution in many conditions if used at infinity so I only use the 500mm. Also it’s hard to get the stability needed at 720mm unless there is no wind whatsoever.

Another option would to get a 450mm non tele that will more than cover 5x7 and covers 8x10. You can go for a Nikkor 450mm M f9, or if money’s not a limit but weight is, the Fuji 450mm C f12.5.

Of course the tele allows less bellow extension so the camera is less sensitive to wind. But the Nikkor T 500mm won’t cover 8x10. So that’s the trade. You’d have to jump to the Nikkor T ED 600mm (800mm/1200mm) to get something that works for 8x10. Heavy and expensive though.

[CreationBear]

I'll definitely be interested in your thought process here, especially IIRC you work with a hybrid workflow. After all, you could crop a 5x7 negative shot with your 300 to the equivalent 500mm focal length and still be working with slightly more film area than you have on native 4x5. For myself, I've had a hard time justifying anything much longer than 360mm, with the 450mm options mentioned seeming to represent a classic case of lots of money chasing after marginal increases in performance.

[Corran]

The 360/500/720 is a great lens but definitely bigger and heavier than most "field" lenses.

If you shoot 4x5 and like long lenses I think it could be a good purchase, and frankly the prices on them have fallen a lot in the last several years. I saw a full set sell recently for $800 which is honestly crazy for the value and versatility. But just like ultrawides these lenses are certainly more niche use-cases.

I found myself using a 180mm on 6x9 a lot in a recent trip - about a 400mm lens on 5x7. I will have to try my Nikkor-T set on 5x7 sometime (haven't quite found my stride on 5x7).

[Greg]

Suggest a 600mm f/12 Fujinon T. Barely covers whole plate at infinity, so you would have some movements with 5x7. Very sharp lens and can be found for little money.

[Eric Woodbury]

I used the Nikkor 600/800 Tele. Great lens, but very heavy. Now I use the Fuji 450mm C. If I need longer, there is plenty of negative and I crop.

[Bernice Loui]

Avoid telephoto design LF lenses if possible. They are intended for cameras with insufficient bellows draw trading off size, weight and optical performance.

Short tele for 5x7_13x18cm would be 360mm/14" to typical tele of 450mm/~16" to 480mm/~19" to long tele which is anything over 600mm/24".
As for lens types, APO process or four element air space dialyte formula (APO artar, APO ronar, APO nikon and ...) is often a better choice over a LF tele design where possible.

~Again, a camera imposed limitation/trade-off~

These are smaller physically, optically better and easier to apply front camera movements.
They are often less $ for a long list of reasons.

Best of the Tele LF design lenses were the Schneider Tele APO Xenar at significant $$$$..


Bernice

[Corran]

I'm not one much for controlled testing, but the famous lens tests here (https://web.hevanet.com/cperez/testing.html#300mm_and_longer) show the Nikkor-T 360mm lens at f/22 soundly out-resolving a few different traditional lenses, including Fujinon-A, Artar, and Tele-Xenar lenses. This is admittedly on 4x5.

One also gets a significant benefit if in windy areas using telephoto lenses with less extension.

I've been perfectly pleased with my Nikkor-T lenses. I always shoot them at two stops down from maximum which seems to be their real sweet-spot.

[sperdynamite]

The 360/500/720 is a great lens but definitely bigger and heavier than most "field" lenses.

If you shoot 4x5 and like long lenses I think it could be a good purchase, and frankly the prices on them have fallen a lot in the last several years. I saw a full set sell recently for $800 which is honestly crazy for the value and versatility. But just like ultrawides these lenses are certainly more niche use-cases.

I found myself using a 180mm on 6x9 a lot in a recent trip - about a 400mm lens on 5x7. I will have to try my Nikkor-T set on 5x7 sometime (haven't quite found my stride on 5x7).

It comes from shooting with a Schneider Tele-Xenar 180/2.8 on 6x6 in my Hy6 Mod 2. Just a joy to use, nice long reach. The compositions become simple, the DoF effects are lovely. I believe I was inspired by the work of Micheal Kenna, who definitely holds the field in graphical compositions made with long lenses. I saw a brief video online somewhere, and he appeared to have a chrome long-something on a Hasselblad. Really opened my eyes at that point that I should stop relying on wides so much.

[Bernice Loui]

Consider a 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar given the previous experience with the 180mm f2.8 Tele Xenar? That could produce similar image qualities in the prints except the difference would be film format size.

Difficulty here could be the physical size of the 500mm Tele Xenar which is BIG and not common in shutter (compound# 5). Tele Xenar being an older optic design that was created during a time when image results are different than more modern LF optics designs. Having used a 360mm f5.5 Tele Xenar on 6x9 for decades, that optic produces softer contrast, with high definition. The softer contrast rendition can deceive some into believe these lenses are "not sharp" except they are. In comparison to something like a Tele Nikor, Fujinon, APO Tele Xenar all have higher contrast with much the same definition. Do NOT be fooled by higher contrast being higher definition or "sharper"...

Then we have the out of focus rendition, The Compound# 5 shutter or Schneider lens barrel have nice round iris which produces pleasant out of focus rendition. The modern Tele LF lens designs are most common in Copal shutters with non-round iris resulting in not so nice out of focus rendition at larger apertures. This is acceptable if the image goal is trying to achieve as much of the image in focus as possible (f22 and smaller), the image result at larger apertures (f5.5 to say f11) might not be ok as a print result.

Choice will be driven by your print image goals. If shallow focus plane is desired with smooth out of focus rendition at larger apertures and softer contrast rendition, something like a 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar or similar could be the way. If hard contrast with the goal of keeping as much of the image in focus as possible is the print image goal a modern Tele LF lens (Tele Nikor, Fujinon, etc) would be the better choice. Only way to determine this is to try each of these lenses in your print making process to figure this out.

Know there are and can easily be optical performance differences between each and every lens sample. This is why testing aka checking out the potential lens to be owned is so important.

It all comes back to will the camera work well with the given lens choice. It could be that 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar IS the lens of choice only to discover the camera is not happy at all with a lens of this large physical size making the print goal that much more difficult to achieve.



Bernice




It comes from shooting with a Schneider Tele-Xenar 180/2.8 on 6x6 in my Hy6 Mod 2. Just a joy to use, nice long reach. The compositions become simple, the DoF effects are lovely. I believe I was inspired by the work of Micheal Kenna, who definitely holds the field in graphical compositions made with long lenses. I saw a brief video online somewhere, and he appeared to have a chrome long-something on a Hasselblad. Really opened my eyes at that point that I should stop relying on wides so much.

[Jim Andrada]

I use the Nikkor 360/500/720 set. I've always been in the "avoid the tele" camp - until I tried the Nikkor. Outstanding sharpness and contrast. My only quibble is that the 720 is f/16. It works well on 5 x 7

[Roger Beck]

The Nikkor T 600/800 is an awesome lens combo and one of my favorites on 5x7. The 800 uses all of the bellows on a 5x7 Deardorff, about 21" and you get a 32" lens, a 170mm equivalent on 35. It takes a little more patience and care but not a lot, I use one tripod and it cant be very windy. Haven't had a problem with sharpness or vibration so far.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49913138718_003366f575_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j3DTcd)Norma Rodenstock Apo-Ronar collection (https://flic.kr/p/2j3DTcd) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

For a long time my longest lens was the Zeiss 59cm Apo-Planar, see bottom left. My clockmaker friend forward mounted that one for me. Then I acquired the 600mm F9 Apo Ronar (Glennview neatly forward mounted it for me see above and work was not too expensive) and the 760mm F14 Apo Ronar, which fit right onto one of my Norma boards at just the right amount of forward extension, was even already front threaded. Looking forward to using these two on my 5x7 Norma