Suggestions for LF field camera

[Treat]

Hi everyone,
I would like to know if the forum could suggest a field camera that has a graflok back, more than 300mm/12" bellows and cost around $1000 used. I shoot mainly still life, landscape/nature and non-extreme macro. Thanks very much.

[Merg Ross]

I'll go first and suggest you take a look at the Toyo A models. Bellows not much more than12", but well within your price range. I have used one for twenty years and find it works well with my requirements.

You will get many good suggestions on this forum; there is no "perfect" camera. What camera are you presently using, with what lenses?

[Hugo Zhang]

https://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/cameras

[Jim Noel]

Toko - Japanese, 15" bellows. Hard to find, as few were made.

[Bernice Loui]

Back up, camera should be MUCH lower on the priority list.
print goals first, what optics or lenses are needed to achieve print image goals, film, film processing, print making process, then camera choice along with camera support and camera case.

~IMO, do not over spend on any camera, lens and all related as that is not what is most significant. The long term and real cost of doing this LF stuff is in film, processing and print making.


"View camera is essentially a light tight box that is flexi in the middle with a method of holding a image recording device (film, digital imager or _) at one end, lens support holder at the other end with flexi supports at the ends that can be adjusted then stable.

That said, not much into style or appearance, it's all functionality and meeting the needs of the lenses required to produce the print image goals. There is nothing romantic or vintage appealing to me about any camera, it MUST do its job with precision, no real limitations on lenses to be used, reliable, durable and be essentially transparent as a image making tool.

Having been and done the wood folder thing, then the metal folder thing.. these don't do what a Sinar system can do, except not all images makers need what the Sinar system is fully capable of..

Essentially, any view camera, any lens and all related is mere tools to achieve the print image goal. Once any experiences image maker is up to speed on using a view camera, the camera essentially become mostly the same, choice becomes a preference much like paint brushes, musical instruments and such. Other factor, what would an experienced image maker willing to tolerate in their Camera, Lens, Film holders, Film, Loupe, Dark Cloth, Tripod-camera support, Light meter, Cable release and...."


https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?157443-Chamonix-and-Ebony-s-are-gorgeous-amp-Old-Kodak-2D-s-are-UGLY-but-they-have-their-place/page4&highlight=flexi



Bernice

[John Layton]

For around 1K you could probably purchase a fairly decent, first-generation Linhof Technikardan - as long as you could ascertain that the bellows haven't been too badly crunched! I owned one of these for a while and although I do admit that its design and dynamics are a bit "out of the box" (leading, for some, to the "crunchy bellows" syndrome due to improper folding), I do think the camera is brilliant, once one gets used to its quirks!

Another contender in this price range might be a Sinar Norma - so long as it has not been too badly abused.

Thing about both Linof and Sinar are that even older ones share crucial, and very deep, DNA with newer models - which equates to a tremendous number of options and great versatility.

[Luis-F-S]

Deardorff V5 is just a bit more used with 23” bellows!

[neil poulsen]

Consider a Sinar F model. With a simple customization to a 6" rail, it can become a convenient field camera that includes both a bag and standard bellows. Cost can be less than $500 for a good, competent, monorail camera with both a bag and standard bellows.

The customization of the 6" rail can be found here.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/sinar-f-4x5-as-a-viable-field-camera.172997/

This thread shows how one can also make an end cap for the customized, 6" base rail. But, the end cap is more cosmetic than it is functional.

The camera shown also has a shorter clamp that was the original clamp sold with the model F cameras. Because they're shorter, they're more convenient for backpacking. But the longer clamps typically sold with these cameras can work fine by turning them sideways in the backpack.

[Vaughn]

Yes, back up...perhaps not as far as Bernice suggests.

What percentage of the time will be spent carrying the camera? If one plans any landscape work any distance for one's home (if on foot) or from one's vehicle, then a majority of one's time will be spent carrying the camera...therefore weight and size can become as important as maximum movements. Movements won't move you miles.

But "mainly still life, landscape/nature and non-extreme macro" is a wide range of needs. Perhaps a rail camera as suggested above, and down the line, keep an eye out for a deal on a lightweight folding 4x5 field camera if the idea moves you...or something like a Deardorff Special which can handle 4x5 and 5x7.

5x7 is pretty sweet...

Two redwoods in Redwoods National Park...only a mile hike in or so.

[Doremus Scudder]

I'm in agreement with Vaughn here: First decide how lightweight you need your camera to be. And then assess what features you need. The use you will put the camera to should determine what type of camera is best for your needs. Form follows function.

Do you need longer bellows? Are you really planning on using lenses longer than 300mm? If so, you'll need a sturdy enough camera and lots of bellows. Are you going to do architectural work seriously? Then you'll need lots of movements, especially lots of front rise and you'll need a really flexible bellows; universal style or even an interchangeable bellows. Do you want to do tabletop work at close distances? Then a monorail is almost a must, and one with lots of features like geared movements will make your life a ton easier. Etc....

My kit is chosen based on my need for portability and light weight. I've opted for a lightweight 4x5 kit because I work in the field, over fairly long distances and in rough terrain a lot (or, carry my camera on my bicycle around the city, or travel internationally, etc.). My lens kit is also appropriately light. I've settled on the lightest of the family of wooden folding cameras for my needs. If mine are similar to yours, then the following may be of use.

Metal folders like the Linhof Technikardans and Metal Toyo and Wista cameras are great; precise and fully-featured. But they're out of the running for me due to their weight. Even among the wooden folding cameras there are many I wouldn't consider just because they are larger, bulkier and weigh too much for my style of working. (I've got a later Zone VI camera that weighs in a just over 6lbs that I rarely use just because it's too large and heavy).

On the other end, there are a lot of folders out there without the movements I need, e.g., I would never buy a camera that didn't have lateral shift on one of the standards. And, I like to carry a 300mm lens, so I need a camera that will somehow accommodate that.

I've opted for the smaller, lighter wooding folding cameras that weigh in at around 3-4 lbs apiece but still have the movements I need. I have two Wista DXs, a Wista SW and a Horseman Woodman currently. The latter is by far the lightest of the bunch; also the least flexible in terms of movements. The Wista SW has interchangeable bellows and is really nice to use in close quarters with lots of movements applied; it's my go-to city and architectural field camera. The DX is nice because it has the capability I need and is lightweight, sturdy and folds up with a lens mounted. With a top-hat board, I can use lenses up to 300mm and with recessed boards, down to 65mm.

There are Tachihara cameras that would fit my bill as well as the Chamonix models. If I were in the market for another lighter camera, I'd seriously look at them. There are others out there too.

If you don't work like me, though, you may want a kit that looks entirely different. Bottom line: assess your needs well and the tool you need to do the job will become apparent.

Best,

Doremus

[unityofsaints]

Just buy an Intrepid and put the money you saved into glass.

[Kiwi7475]

I think the problem is that still life/macro and landscape are a bit at odds with each other. The first one wants a heavy stable monorail the second one a light wood foldable camera (other options for each are possible but in general).

One option would be to start with a camera for the type of photography OP shoots the most and forgo the other until a second camera can be afforded.

A monorail camera like a Horseman L45 will work great for still life & macro and can be had for relatively little money.

Light wood options for landscape are not cheap, except for the intrepid (and that’s not something I would buy, I would wait to have saved a bit more and make the jump to a better crafted one — but that’s me).

Trying to get one that works for both will generate compromises that only OP can decide if they’re going to severely impact his shooting objectives.

[grat]

He did say "non-extreme" macro. You can reach 1:1 with a 180mm lens on the Chamonix (Draw is 395, which is bonkers for such a small camera-- extending it to 510 is possible, but I think you might need guy wires at that point).

The intrepid has 300mm draw, so 1:1 with 150mm is reachable.

There's also the Chroma 4x5 cameras-- They're less than the Chamonix, more than the Intrepid, and while they use unusual materials, seem pretty well thought out. Bellows is "only" 280mm, so macro is limited to 140mm and below.

Those are all new, and I knew the OP said "used". There are some very good choices for used-- Tachihara, Wista, Nagaoaka (who recently passed away, sadly), and there's a beautiful Ikeda Abna with lens on "that site" right now, and one without lens on KEH.

My complaint with monorails is that in general (I know there are exceptions), they tend to be bulky, heavy, and awkward. Loading up for a 4x5 camera in general can be a major undertaking, and monorails exacerbate that.

[otto.f]

I wonder why a Graflok back is so special and important. If the theme of this thread is moving towards what the most photographed subjects are for OP, I wonder why you need such a back, to reduce to MF? Why would you want that if you want go LF anyway? If you want to take your time to make a photograph, why would you reduce to MF?. I’m asking because Chamonix offers a beautiful lightweight viewcamera new for less than €1000, which is about $1000. With more than enough length for 300mm lenses, up till 550mm I think. And more than enough movements for stills and macro. I don't see why this would not work as a studio camera as well as a landscape camera.

[grat]

As far as I know, all the Chamonix cameras have graflok compatible backs. It's nice to have the option. I use a 120 film holder with mine.

[otto.f]

As far as I know, all the Chamonix cameras have graflok compatible backs. It's nice to have the option. I use a 120 film holder with mine.
Thanks, I didn’t know the word Graflok, but I own a Chamonix F2 and never tried my Linhof 6x7 holder on it, I’ll try once then.

[Treat]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the replies. I have a Cambo monorail which is great for home studio use and I've even taken it out a few times but it's pretty bulky. I believe someone asked what lenses I had, presently have a 75mm, 150mm, 240mm, 270mm. The reason I wanted graflok back was to try out 6x9, 6x12 medium format backs and another attachment for a DSLR, which require a graflok. I don't need a lot of bellows extension but I would like a little bit more than 12 inches in case I would like a close ups of certain flowers/plants and certain textures in the natural world. Maybe I don't even need more than 12 inches but just in case... I'm leaning towards a Wista 45 SP. I like to shoot outdoors but I'm not a big hiker so weight is not a major issue. I don't usually go much further than about a mile or so from my car.

[jose angel]

If you already have a monorail, I'd definitely go for a folding metal (Wista, Toyo, Linhof, MPP... ), or a extremely lightweight wooden one.
If you don't plan to backpack intensively, a metal folder would be my choice. Fast setup, protected, compact. I'd put the maximum bellows extension and movement capability aside (there are other routes). Some models have really long bellows but at the cost of higher flimsiness, complexity or weight.
The SP looks fine (I use a very similar 5x7" version), but I wonder if there are lighter options.

[Treat]

If you already have a monorail, I'd definitely go for a folding metal (Wista, Toyo, Linhof, MPP... ), or a extremely lightweight wooden one.
If you don't plan to backpack intensively, a metal folder would be my choice. Fast setup, protected, compact. I'd put the maximum bellows extension and movement capability aside (there are other routes). Some models have really long bellows but at the cost of higher flimsiness, complexity or weight.
The SP looks fine (I use a very similar 5x7" version), but I wonder if there are lighter options.

Hi Jose,
I forgot they had a 5x7 version - The Ritterick? Hmmm, very tempting...

[Vaughn]

Deardorff Special then -- 4x5 or 5x7 with the same classic camera. But under a $1000...hmmmmm

[Joseph Kashi]

Hi Jose,
I forgot they had a 5x7 version - The Ritterick? Hmmm, very tempting...

The Rittreck weighs 9 pounds 6 ounces without lens, case, etc. I have two, they're very solid and useful metal folding 5x7 cameras that often come with a second, 4x5 reducing back. It's not been sold new for several decades. The Rittreck company was the direct corporate predecessor of Wista.

However, I like to joke that they were built by the same company that built the Japanese battleship Yamato, the biggest, heaviest battleship ever built, 63,000 tons of steel. Seriously, the Rittreck is a versatile and useful camera, but heavy.

Most copies are coming out of Japan via the bay and not uncommonly should have new bellows (not a big problem) and a bit of cleanup and touch-up by a machinist or other person familiar with metal work. Still, for $300-$500, their value is hard to beat. Just be sure that the 5x7 and 4x5 backs are the sort that take modern film holders, not the old book form or plate backs. Technika board adapters and fitted compendium lens hoods are easy to find.