What do the wide gamut profiles in DPL mean

[Steven Ruttenberg]

There are several wide gamut uncorrected CMS files.

What does Wide gamut log trany mean? I git the log gamma curve which is more representative of sensor data, what dies trany mean? Also this setting seems to include a grain setting of 8. How would I turn that off and make a new CMS file?

The other is wide gamut uncorrected trany I believe or just wide gamut uncorrected.

Both of these provide files that are not inverted but a pain to convert.

Is there a method for stretching the negative data from the wide gamut uncorrected scan to create a new CMS to better represent the negative? I tonk black and white would be straight fwd, color neg seems a pita to do that.

[Chester McCheeserton]

use wide gamut negative uncorrected for color negatives and b&w negatives.

for chromes, either use kodak ektachrome no matter what film type.

Or use wide gamet negative uncorrected and flip it in photoshop.

I was never shown a situation where using either a log chrome or trany setting produced a good result.

Also- you don't really need to create a CMS. The only time when it make sense to have a CMS is when you need to re-scan a negative and want to go back to your exact same settings. Just using the histogram to adjust density and the individual color channels to adjust color is all you need. And open the file in photoshop and look at it carefully before you unmount the drum....Oftentimes the color looks different in PS than in DPL.

Think of it like an enlarger, making a scan is like making a print, in that you don't just hit the button once, but make scan (like a print) evaluate it, then go back and make subtle adjustments to perfect it.

Don't use curves - just levels. use Ap 16 or 19 for color neg. use Ap 10 for Chromes and 8 or 10 for black and white negs. Only use a sharper Ap then 8 for something crazy like techpan

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Interesting. Hadden at dpl said if flipping neg use the generic ICC profile or another generic. Not use wide gamut for flipping negatives.

I like the cms approach since it tells the scanner where to scan as it tells the a/d converter how to behave when scanning. I want to avoid any software manipulation. Of file upon saving.

I will try as you suggest tonight. There is a ton this scanner and software can do and I haven't even scratched the surface.

[nbagno]

Do you have the help videos?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chester McCheeserton]

Interesting. Hadden at dpl said if flipping neg use the generic ICC profile or another generic. Not use wide gamut for flipping negatives.

I like the cms approach since it tells the scanner where to scan as it tells the a/d converter how to behave when scanning. I want to avoid any software manipulation. Of file upon saving.

I will try as you suggest tonight. There is a ton this scanner and software can do and I haven't even scratched the surface.

The guys at Aztek are great, especially with troubleshooting problems or questions about the hardware. but their main job is selling the software and tape, mylar, and fluid, or tuning up old scanners; they aren't making many prints there.

I used a 8000 machine with the pro version of the software and got used to making a cms every single time for the reason you mention. But then switched jobs and started using the same scanner, but the non-pro version of the software. At first I was like oh no, I can't make CMSs the scans won't be as good.

But in actuality I don't think you can see a difference side by side in the file, just using levels histogram to adjust vs starting with a cms and doing that whole extra preview....it's one of those things that makes sense in theory but not in practice, after seeing the result with no CMS I'm convinced I wasted many hours waiting for the extra preview and creating a new CMS each time. That's my experience anyway....

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Do you have the help videos?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. Watched them several times.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

One thing I am finding out is getting a good color image from a negative using scanner software is not an easy process. Really requires a solid understanding and every image is different. For creating an inverted image I am using the wide gamut uncorrected. The whole process really begs to have a gray card in the scene which isn't practical for landscapes so it starts becoming a real task to figure that out.

I can get decent conversions of the neg using colorneg. Finding out which cms to use to scan the neg and not invert it is another item working on.

Hadden at Aztek is very helpful. I asked about upgrading to ver 8 and he said jot too until I master ver 7 and using the scanner. They also off training I will take at some point after I am proficient with scanner.

[Chester McCheeserton]

did you ever do analog color printing? that really helps if you have that knowledge....what's blue vs what's cyan etc...

the people on this forum who harp on and on about not letting the scanner convert the file are not that experienced scanning color negatives in my opinion...I think you can begin to see that using that expensive software to scan a negative as a transparency and then converting is not only not the best method, it just plain doesn't make sense....

A person who is very familiar with that software is Lumiere Editions in NM. I'd encourage you to try sending them a neg and talking to Chip, seeing what the scan looks like that he sends back to you and using it as a guide on how to make a good scan to start working on in PS.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I never did any color printing. I am staring to understand more now. For one thing the difference between drum scanner and flatbed scanner is vastly different. While scanning negatives as positive and inverting with software of your choice works great on a flatbed whereas the drum scanner is completely different and will do a better job.

[Peter De Smidt]

Lenny Eiger is another good source for info on that scanner.

[tonyowen]

Don't use curves - just levels. use Ap 16 or 19 for color neg. use Ap 10 for Chromes and 8 or 10 for black and white negs. Only use a sharper Ap then 8 for something crazy like techpan

In my ignorance and for my education what is Ap?

You refer to curves and levels - is this something in ps???

regards
Tony

[interneg]

did you ever do analog color printing? that really helps if you have that knowledge....what's blue vs what's cyan etc...

the people on this forum who harp on and on about not letting the scanner convert the file are not that experienced scanning color negatives in my opinion...I think you can begin to see that using that expensive software to scan a negative as a transparency and then converting is not only not the best method, it just plain doesn't make sense....


I'd suggest it's the other way round - DPL/ Aztek's software may be the exception that is pretty capable with colour negs, but a lot of (generally older & more geared to transparency) European scanners' software seem to have issues with understanding the relatively simple mask colour correction and gamma correction necessary to make good neg scans in a painless manner that make it easier to match a colour darkroom print's tonality. What makes it more annoying is that colour neg effectively complies to a fairly fixed set of standards for curve gamma/ colour correction & that appears to have been enacted fairly poorly in a lot of software. I feel can say that on the basis of having made & dealt with thousands of scans from different machines & having had to colour match to objects/ pigments & top quality custom darkroom prints - and having made colour darkroom prints myself.

As it is, whatever works for you, works - and if it lets you get a good colour match (within the limitations of the dye couplers etc, etc), that's all that matters.

[Chester McCheeserton]

I've found EpsonScan also very capable with color negatives using a flatbed. I think a lot of people on this site dismiss it, since it's free, and think silverfast or vuescan must be better because they are more complicated. But Yes producing a good scan from a color neg requires a lot more knowledge and experience then B&W.


In my ignorance and for my education what is Ap?

You refer to curves and levels - is this something in ps???

regards
Tony

Ap = aperture

I was referring to levels (or histogram) and curves in the Digital Photo Lab scanning software sold by Aztek. But yes those same features are also in photoshop.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Lenny Eiger is another good source for info on that scanner.

Thanks!