B's 4x5 Reel and FPP x-ray film

[Sam L]

Hello,

I'm new to 4x5. Today was my first shot at shooting and developing 4x5. I bought some FPP double-sided x-ray film to learn with:

https://filmphotographystore.com/products/4x5-sheet-film-fpp-bw-negative-x-ray-film-25-sheets

I also bought a B's 4x5 reel for my Paterson tank:

https://www.bounetphoto.com/bounet-shop/bs-4x5-developing-reel

I shot two photos outside at ISO 10 and used HC-110 dilution H for 3.5min as recommended on the FPP website. Both shots look underexposed by about a stop. I'm not confident enough in my equipment to know whether the underexposure was the shutter (seems more likely to be slow) or light meter (iPhone app) or the development. I'm not sure whether to try again at ISO 5, push one stop when developing, or use a better light meter. Lots of options. Does anyone have any experience with this film and HC-110?

The second issue was that the film is double-sided and the center of back side emulsion of one of the photos stuck to the developing reel. When I got the negative out, there was a white vertical stripe of emulsion left there. Luckily, I was able to remove it by another dip in the fixer and a second wash free floating in the tank. Obviously, this is not an ideal process. Is this kind of thing a common issue with x-ray film or is this just a problem with the B's reel?

Thanks,
Sam

[Tin Can]

So many variables

If you can load film in holders and a B's you can tray develop one at a time

Time of day matters to X-Ray as does Sun

shoot Sunny 16 for a while, use exact developer instructions one at a time in a tray

[Kiwi7475]

I would spend a few shots to understand your process since it’s the first time. Meter a couple of different scenes (one sunny one more shadowy, to cover some range) with your app and for each one take two consecutive shots, one at what it tells you and for the second one add one stop. Develop all 4 together. You can tell if there’s a systematic bias. Try to stick to one developing approach (agitation etc) from now on.

For sanity you could verify that the app is telling you the right thing by checking the sunny 16 rule, but they’re usually ok for non extreme cases of high contrast, etc.

If it’s the shutter it will be tricky because you’ll get varying results depending on the speed selected. There are some ways also using apps to try and measure like shutter-speed. I wouldn’t necessarily trust it to be very accurate but it should be able to tell you if there’s anything really off.

[Sam L]

Thanks for the replies.

I'll shoot a bracket later today and use a modern canon for the light to eliminate the light meter question. I have had good luck with the iPhone as light meter but also the standard films I use have a lot of dynamic range so it doesn't usually matter if the light is perfect. I'm not sure if the x-ray film has as much range, so maybe have to be more careful.

I am still curious about:

- HC-110 dilution H + xray film combo @ 3.5 min, 68F
- Are people actually seeing ISO 10 w/ this film in daylight?
- If anyone had the same sticking issues with the B's reel and double-sided emulsions. If so, any fixes?

[Alan9940]

The actual exposure index of x-ray film will vary some based on time-o-day, latitude, etc. As Kiwi7475 suggests, I would look for a full range scene (or one that represents typical light you photograph in) and expose several sheets at different EI's using your light meter app or whatever you're using to determine exposure. Scan or print in a darkroom to see which you prefer. As for development options, you really don't have many with double-sided film; any option--like the B's reel--where one side of the film is pressed against a surface is not going to work well. I believe I've read that some folks have developed double-sided successfully in trays (generally with a piece of glass on the bottom to avoid scratches), but I used either tanks/hangers or a Nikkor style film developing tank.

As for the accuracy of your shutter speeds, unless you have a tester there is no way to be sure exactly what you're getting at each selected speed. That said, the "ear test" is usually good 'nuff and you're correct that they'll generally be slower, if off at all.

[Sam L]

Thank for the wisdom.

I may try tray development but I think the real solution is to get some normal film!

I am at least learning a lot.

[Kiwi7475]

Perhaps other have experience specifically with FPP’s X-ray film, but, 3.5 min in 1+62 (dilution H) seems really short. I’m used to like 6-7 min but of course this film could be different. In any case if that’s correct then you need to be really a stickler managing time as 10-15 sec more or less could be significant.

About the B’s... I don’t use it anymore for a variety of issues (inconsistency, scratches, etc). I’ve successfully processed double sided X-ray (although not this one) in the SP-445 and it worked fine, doesn’t stick to the back of the holders. But I understand you probably want a solution within the B’s rather than buying more gear....

[LabRat]

Most tank reels make "spring" contact with the base of regular films, but double sided gets slightly sticky and adhere to reel (normal single dip hangers work)...

The ortho green sensitive x-ray shoots normal during midday, but early/late in day the light contains less green, so exposure is increased... If I remember correctly, requires 1- 1/2 stop increase in exposure during those times...

Steve K

[Sam L]

FPP says this stuff is "Blue/Green" sensitive, which to some extent could explain the underexposed person in the portrait.

Anyhow, I shot +/-1 stop brackets of a landscape with bright and dark areas and portrait in the shade at about 2pm. The original shots were from this morning at about 10am. One confounding factor is that the air here (California) is quite smoky, but the light today isn't noticeably colored. The results are pretty obvious and consistent with the two shots from this morning:

+1 stop: photos look ok. Shadows are still dark but there's plenty of detail that can be brought out. Highlights are not blown out.
As metered: shots are too dark. Some shadow detail is lost.
-1 stop photos are nearly black. All shadow detail is lost.

Only about half of the photos developed properly in the B's reel. As Kiwi7475 mentioned, I don't really want to buy more gear and I don't want to develop the photos one at a time, so I'm just going to finish off the box and buy some regular film. I have some light leaks to track down and could use the more practice in loading and unloading, so that will use up the rest of the box.

If anyone is curious to try this film, I would say it is is somewhere around ISO 5 (or maybe even 2.5) in mid-day light with the HC-110 dilution H for 3.5min. I would start there and maybe even increase by 1/2 more stop or push. For me, the double-sided emulsion is a deal breaker. I wish I had known you can't develop it in tanks before buying it. On the plus side, development times are short and the portraits are really distinctive looking, I'm guessing from the lack of red sensitivity:

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