Seeking guidance on pairing a Nikon 150mm W lens with a Graflex Crown Graphic 4x5

[Certain Exposures]

Hello,

Please let me know about your hands-on user experience with mounting a Nikon 150mm W lens in a Copal 0 shutter on a Graflex Crown Graphic 4x5. I have a few specific questions for any of you with experience with this combination or lens.

Question 1: What copal size is an Optar 135 F4.7 in a Wollensack shutter [note: this is my current lens]? I found an encyclopedia resource online, and I did not find a clear answer to this question.
Question 2: Where do you recommend someone go for a replacement Crown Graphic lens board with a Copal 0 shutter? I see an eBay listing for 3rd party parts but I am wary because the original lens board has a unique shape.
Question 3: What should I be ready to compromise if I use a Nikon 150mm W lens in a Copal 0 shutter on a Graflex Crown Graphic 4x5? This question would be first if I knew the answer to the technical questions.
Question 4: A Copal 0 shutter has a flash pc sync port that works perfectly fine with modern pc sync flashes like a Yongnuo 560IV, right? Based on my research, the answer is yes. However, I have learned to expect the unexpected.

Thank you in advance for your insight. I will repay the favor to the forum by sharing my experience after using this combination if I chose to go with it .

[Dan Fromm]

1 - Wollensak shutters -- Rapax if native Wolly, Graphex if rebadged for Graflex -- don't conform to the Compur/Copal/Prontor standard.

2 - skgrimes.com should be able to sell you a new lensboard for 4x5 Pacemaker Graphics bored for a #1. If you go to eBay, look for metal boards for 4x5 Graphics with 41.6 mm holes.

3 - I don't believe, could be mistaken, that the camera can be closed with a 150/5.6 plasmat type (that's what the Nikkor you asked about is) mounted. That's the only compromise.

4 - modern is modern, pc connector is pc connector.

You seem to be a newcomer here, probably haven't found or used this site's resources. Read the FAQs. "The list" will direct you to answers to your questions re shutter specifications can be found. The list is this site's best hidden useful resource. There's a link to it in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion. Don't dither, click on the link and then click on the link.

[B.S.Kumar]

1: I have seen this lens in a Copal 0 shutter, though I don't know if the cells are interchangeable between Wollensak and Copal shutters.
3: If your camera has a side mounted rangefinder it will need adjustment. If top mounted, you'll need a cam.
4: Yes, the shutter will work with modern flash units.

Kumar

[Dan Fromm]

1: I have seen this lens in a Copal 0 shutter, though I don't know if the cells are interchangeable between Wollensak and Copal shutters.
3: If your camera has a side mounted rangefinder it will need adjustment. If top mounted, you'll need a cam.
4: Yes, the shutter will work with modern flash units.

Kumar

1 -- they aren't

[David Schaller]

If I were you, I would leave the Optar alone, and just buy a lens board for the new 150, and use the ground glass to focus. Original and knock off Copal 0 lens boards for your Crown are plentiful and cheap. Check eBay or the for sale section here.

[Certain Exposures]

You seem to be a newcomer here, probably haven't found or used this site's resources. Read the FAQs. "The list" will direct you to answers to your questions re shutter specifications can be found. The list is this site's best hidden useful resource. There's a link to it in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion. Don't dither, click on the link and then click on the link.

You are right! I am (relatively) new. Thank you for that information. I'm checking the link now.

[Certain Exposures]

3: If your camera has a side mounted rangefinder it will need adjustment. If top mounted, you'll need a cam.
Kumar

Thank you! You just reminded me that I need to continue working on fixing my side rangefinder. I am painfully close to perfect but vertical calibration is slightly off. I might as well wait until after an upgrade.

[Certain Exposures]

If I were you, I would leave the Optar alone, and just buy a lens board for the new 150, and use the ground glass to focus. Original and knock off Copal 0 lens boards for your Crown are plentiful and cheap. Check eBay or the for sale section here.

Thank you! Yes, I am not too preoccupied with the rangefinder. After I've done better work with the Graflex, I will probably upgrade to something lighter without a rangefinder. I have not ordered a new lens yet. The Optar looks good. It just won't work well as a Graflarger lens based on the advice I am reading.

[tonyowen]

[QUOTE=Dan Fromm; 4 - modern is modern, pc connector is pc connector.[/QUOTE]

A fuller explanation is that cameras are [normally] fitted with either a cold accessory shoe or a hot accessory shoe.

To use a flash on a camera with a cold accessory shoe [or no accessory shoe] you use the pc sync cable.

To use a flash on a camera with a hot accessory shoe you just fit the flash gun into that shoe and the flash will fire when triggered by the camera's/shutter's mechanism.

There is an accessory/adaptor that enables a cold accessory shoe to become a hot accessory shoe and this accessory/adaptor uses a pc cable [connected to the pc post on the camera/shutter] and its hot shoe is fitted into the camera's cold accessory shoe.

Hope this makes sense and clarifies issues

Regards
Tony

[Dan Fromm]

A fuller explanation is that cameras are [normally] fitted with either a cold accessory shoe or a hot accessory shoe.

To use a flash on a camera with a cold accessory shoe [or no accessory shoe] you use the pc sync cable.

To use a flash on a camera with a hot accessory shoe you just fit the flash gun into that shoe and the flash will fire when triggered by the camera's/shutter's mechanism.

There is an accessory/adaptor that enables a cold accessory shoe to become a hot accessory shoe and this accessory/adaptor uses a pc cable [connected to the pc post on the camera/shutter] and its hot shoe is fitted into the camera's cold accessory shoe.

Hope this makes sense and clarifies issues

Regards
Tony

Tony, are you thinking of LF cameras? I've had a few and shopped more. None, including a Graflex SLR, has had a flash shoe.

The typical LF camera has a lens in a leaf shutter. Most relatively modern -- essentially post-WW II -- leaf shutters have flash terminals. In the US, at various times, bipost; ASA, also called Kodak; and, most recently, PC as fitted to Prontor, Compur, Copal, ... shutters.

[tonyowen]

Tony, are you thinking of LF cameras? I've had a few and shopped more. None, including a Graflex SLR, has had a flash shoe.

Dan, just trying to show the difference between 'modern' hot shoe cameras and cameras that operate with pc synch cable/lead; and the options that are available for LF cameras

Yes, I know that [most] elderly LF cameras do not have a flash shoe [hot or cold]. But a [cold] flash shoe can be fastened/glued to the LF body and the flash [with pc cable/lead] connected to the pc port of the shutter.

Alternatively if the flash gun does not have a integral, but often removable, pc cable fitted then the pc cable to hot shoe adaptor could be used. again with the hot flash shoe fastened directly to the camera body, or fitted into a cold flash shoe adhered to the camera body.

Regards
Tony

[Dan Fromm]

Dan, just trying to show the difference between 'modern' hot shoe cameras and cameras that operate with pc synch cable/lead; and the options that are available for LF cameras

Yes, I know that [most] elderly LF cameras do not have a flash shoe [hot or cold]. But a [cold] flash shoe can be fastened/glued to the LF body and the flash [with pc cable/lead] connected to the pc port of the shutter.

Alternatively if the flash gun does not have a integral, but often removable, pc cable fitted then the pc cable to hot shoe adaptor could be used. again with the hot flash shoe fastened directly to the camera body, or fitted into a cold flash shoe adhered to the camera body.

Regards
Tony

Weasel words, Toiny, and false. Modern LF cameras don't have flash shoes.

[tonyowen]

Weasel words, Toiny, and false. Modern LF cameras don't have flash shoes.

Dan, Not very friendly.

I've an elderly Calumet CC400 LF camera and I'm able to use both types of flash guns on it, namely flash guns that have a pc cable/lead and those that reply on a hot shoe to fire.

My argument/discussion point is that electronic flash guns ancient and modern CAN BE USED on/with LF cameras

You differentiate erroneously between 'modern' and 'pc cable/lead' flash guns [post 2] without stating their firing activation is different albeit similar and both types can be used on LF cameras

regards
Tony

[Alan Gales]

Used Graflex lens boards were at one time, easily available on eBay. I haven't watched lately. You may have to be a little patient. I think there are people out there who are waiting for Covid 19 to be over with before they sell items.

As Dan suggests, you could look at SK Grimes. You will need to call for pricing.

https://skgrimes.com/products/lens-boards/#graphic

[Dan Fromm]

Dan, Not very friendly.

I've an elderly Calumet CC400 LF camera and I'm able to use both types of flash guns on it, namely flash guns that have a pc cable/lead and those that reply on a hot shoe to fire.

My argument/discussion point is that electronic flash guns ancient and modern CAN BE USED on/with LF cameras

You differentiate erroneously between 'modern' and 'pc cable/lead' flash guns [post 2] without stating their firing activation is different albeit similar and both types can be used on LF cameras

regards
Tony

Tony, I'm going to be even less friendly. Please learn to read and then reread my post #10 above.

Many older leaf shutters, most of the ones made before WW-II don't offer flash synchronization. Many of the older ones that do have flash sync don't synch with electronic flash. Nearly all post-WW-II leaf shutters offer flash sync, not all synchronize with flash bulbs other than class F.

I've had an equally elderly CC-401. It had no provision for flash. Lenses in shutter mounted on it do.

I also described three common types of flash terminals. The PC terminal displaced ASA and bipost.

[Tin Can]

One solution to flash sync is shooting with Bulb Setting

Meaning you open the shutter, trigger a flash bulb or any strobe flash, then shut the shutter

I shoot a few barrel lenses with Packard shutters inside, meaning built in behind the lens board

I also mount micro switches that trip when the Packard is fully open, works wonderfully on tiny cameras and huge ones

Right now working on a Burke and James Rembrandt 5X7 made with 1951 factory Packard shutter sync, very good for Portraits and can carry a huge lens

[mike rosenlof]

Thank you! Yes, I am not too preoccupied with the rangefinder. After I've done better work with the Graflex, I will probably upgrade to something lighter without a rangefinder. I have not ordered a new lens yet. The Optar looks good. It just won't work well as a Graflarger lens based on the advice I am reading.

I too would recommend get a new lens board for the new lens. The Nikkor 150 should work very well for you, especially if you're focusing with the ground glass. Rangefinder adjustment is certainly possible, but it will no longer be correct for your previous lens. You'll need to pick which lens the rangefinder works for.

The speed/crown graphic is fairly light as 4x5 cameras go, especially the crown. *Usually* the upgrade reason is for more flexibility in movements or other features. 4x5 doesn't necessarily need to go as extreme with movements as larger formats do. It depends on your subject, and depends a lot on your camera to subject distance (magnification, but that's a longer story).

Welcome, and Have fun!

[reddesert]

Hello,
Question 1: What copal size is an Optar 135 F4.7 in a Wollensack shutter [note: this is my current lens]? I found an encyclopedia resource online, and I did not find a clear answer to this question.
Question 2: Where do you recommend someone go for a replacement Crown Graphic lens board with a Copal 0 shutter? I see an eBay listing for 3rd party parts but I am wary because the original lens board has a unique shape.
Question 3: What should I be ready to compromise if I use a Nikon 150mm W lens in a Copal 0 shutter on a Graflex Crown Graphic 4x5? This question would be first if I knew the answer to the technical questions.
Question 4: A Copal 0 shutter has a flash pc sync port that works perfectly fine with modern pc sync flashes like a Yongnuo 560IV, right? Based on my research, the answer is yes. However, I have learned to expect the unexpected.


An aftermarket Graphic board for a #0 shutter should be fine. You can get them on ebay and possibly from shops that sell LF equipment.

The shutter PC outlet will work fine with an electronic flash, but you need to remember to set the shutter to X-sync if it has an M-X switch. (Not sure anyone mentioned that detail yet.)

Your Optar in shutter may also work with electronic flash if you can find or make a bipost to PC sync adapter cord.

[Kevin Crisp]

If you have a side-mounted Kalart rangefinder (not the later, horizontal plastic one on top) it can be adjusted to use with the 150 and be very accurate. You need a bed scale (or make one) for that focal length too. Never hurts to have an accurate bed scale for your normal lens. I mounted a cold shoe on one of mine. I never use (and removed) the top mounted view finder since the hoop works so well with different lenses.