Is Oriental Seagull paper gone too?

[Greg Y]

I'm coming to the end of my stash of Oriental Seagull FB in several sizes. I noticed nobody has it in stock? Is it gone like the others before it? i wasn't sold on it, but got very good results with both Ansco 130 and LPD... different in a good way, than Ilford Classic....

[jvo]

b&h has it...

[Renato Tonelli]

No one has had in stock for months. Calls and emails to the distributor have gone unanswered and I have no idea if this is a distribution problem o if they simply stpped making it.

[Greg Y]

Thanks Renato..... Enlarging paper stock is very low everywhere with not much selection. B&H pretty much only stocks Ilford and a little Aristo. It took them 3 months to get Foma 16x20 for me.....after advertising "2-4 weeks"

jvo ...... website shows nothing in stock everything back ordered or special order......

[Renato Tonelli]

Thanks Renato..... Enlarging paper stock is very low everywhere with not much selection. B&H pretty much only stocks Ilford and a little Aristo. It took them 3 months to get Foma 16x20 for me.....after advertising "2-4 weeks"

jvo ...... website shows nothing in stock everything back ordered or special order......

I have had good experience buying Foma and other papers from Freestyle. Oriental Paper is readily available in Japan and I have seen no notice of its discontinuation. Could be a distribution problem or who knows what...
FYI: a member of this forum (Kumar) has offered to procure Oriental Paper.

[Greg Y]

Thanks Renato, Someone on the Rangefinder forum sent me a link to supply in Japan. The price was 19,900 Y ($188 USD for 100 sheets of 8x10)... without shipping. I certainly don't favour the paper that much....and that's before the added exchange rate to canadian dollars. It just seemed to quietly slip away, offering us one less choice. B&H advertised Foma as available in 2-4 weeks. After I ordered a number of boxes of 16x20 (payment in advance, non-cancellable, & buyer pays shipping).....it took 3 months to deliver the paper. In that case I was in the middle of a printing project and it did make a difference. It appears we have fewer choices for silver gelatin paper, with the uncertainty around Adox, and the long wait times and additional costs for Oriental, it appears using Ilford as the standard is the way to go.....if one seeks consistency in ones printing.

[Ben Calwell]

It is unsettling to read about so few choices in silver-gelatin papers these days. I’ve been using Ilford’s multi grade classic FB paper and am very happy with it. I hope Ilford, bless them, stay healthy for a long, long time.

[Ulophot]

I think major economic changes will have to occur before we get a paper revival in any way echoing the relative one in film. (I know we've lost more than we've gained, but at least we have seen a few new entrants in recent years.) Stay healthy, folks, it may be a while.

When I returned to printing a couple of years ago, I was surprised to find Ilford's glossy surface had changed, becoming more like patent leather hi-gloss than the "air-dried gloss" it used to have. I'm sure it's popular, though not so much to my liking; I don't know what occasioned the change. I print on WTF and use the gloss surface for contact proofs but little else.

[Renato Tonelli]

I’ve read that, although film sales are up, paper sales are either flat or declining a bit.
We have lost so many great papers over the past 20 years or so.

[Greg Y]

I’ve read that, although film sales are up, paper sales are either flat or declining a bit.
.

"I just got the Leica M10 and all the ASPH lenses..... which scanner should i get to post on Instagram ;-).....
'

[Renato Tonelli]

"I just got the Leica M10 and all the ASPH lenses..... which scanner should i get to post on Instagram ;-).....
'

You hit the proverbial nail on the head!

[stefn]

According to Ilford's last annual report in October last year, paper sales were up 4% yoy. They note 'this is the first time we have seen growth in annual paper sales volume, in the history of the company'

Let's hope it continues.

[Renato Tonelli]

According to Ilford's last annual report in October last year, paper sales were up 4% yoy. They note 'this is the first time we have seen growth in annual paper sales volume, in the history of the company'

Let's hope it continues.

It's not a huge increase but, as you point out, it is encouraging. I wonder what it looks like at Adox and Foma.

[jp]

Maybe Ilford sales increasing at the same time Oriental disappearing is not simple coincidence? Oriental paper comes from "Cyber graphics" in Japan which is also the Ilford distributor for Japan. Maybe they are working together to make non-competing territories? No evidence, just imaginative speculation.
https://www.filmshooterscollective.com/analog-film-photography-blog/under-the-radar-oriental-seagull-400-renato-repetto-10-10
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ilford-priced-to-leave-japan.139552/

The US distributor has a nasty webpage from the previous century... and their address looks pretty run down in Google maps street view.. Maybe US distributor problems?
http://www.orientalphotousa.com/sales.htm

[Drew Wiley]

The real deal was gone maybe twenty years ago, presumably when cadmium in the emulsion became banned. The relatively anemic replacement formula, which had a bellyflop of a Grade 4, is long gone by now too. The real marketing doom of these graded papers is the dramatic improvement in VC papers, not lack of overall paper demand. I loved the original Seagull G graded bromide, and Zone VI Brilliant Bromide; Some of today's VC options are equally rich, but much easier to use. If you want to try a premium VC paper that can mimic the depth of early Seagull, try Bergger Neutral Tone, then gold tone it to achieve a cool tone. Ilford MG Cooltone is also a very fine product, especially in 130 developer. And of course, if one wants a warmtone paper instead, MGWT is a wonderful product. MG Classic is a popular product, but somewhere in the middle, tone and depth and price wise; it won't give you a true cold tone if that is what you are after. There is no lack of good paper options. People just need to adapt. Looking at my own recent results, comparing the last of the classic premium graded FB papers, Ilfobrom Galerie, versus new graded options, I'd say that 90% of the time, the newer VC options win hands-down. And I am a very nitpicky printer.

[Sal Santamaura]

...When I returned to printing a couple of years ago, I was surprised to find Ilford's glossy surface had changed, becoming more like patent leather hi-gloss than the "air-dried gloss" it used to have. I'm sure it's popular, though not so much to my liking...

+1. I laid in a supply of ADOX MCC 110 soon after its production was "paused" at the beginning of this year. Still shinier than I'd like, but at least tolerable.

Between paper and how Ilford sheet film has morphed into something that can't handle being processed in Jobo Expert drums without base side scratching/deposits, I've transitioned entirely to large format materials coated by Inoviscoat. Which is to say the MCC 110 along with Bergger Pancro 400. As if relying on HARMAN wasn't "all eggs in one basket" enough. :)

[Greg Y]

207260 Thanks for your comments Drew. I had a real soft spot for Brilliant when it was made by Guillemot/Boespflug. I do have a stash of Ilford warmtone which i'm pretty judicious about using. I'll take your word and give the Cooltone in 130 a try. I lucked out yesterday when a photographer from Calgary sold me 3 boxes of Oriental Seagull 16"x20" and delivered it to Canmore. & Yes the Bergger neutral tone is very nice.

[LabRat]

Update: I was in the Freestyle store yesterday and asked the nice salesperson what was the status of Oriental paper, and he said they didn't have it for awhile... I asked him if he could ask someone there if it's coming... He went into the back and asked a buyer if he knew... Buyer said they are still waiting for distributer to acknowledge shipping status, and mentioned distributer was fairly local, but they haven't written them off getting restocked yet...

So we wait...

Steve K

[Renato Tonelli]

Thanks Steve - I hope the paper becomes available in the US again. I get the sense that it is a distribution problem and that, hopefully, it will be resolved.