PDA

View Full Version : Wet plate process not producing an image



blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 11:41
Howdy folks! I'm new to the whole wet plate process but not to photography by any means. I've attempted the wet plate collodion process about 8 times with zero success. Can y'all help identify the issue?
First off, I bought the wet plate collodion kit from Bostick & Sullivan. Mixed up the chems and got everything setup for tintypes. I'm using a Hasselblad 500 c/m with a modified Polaroid back to hold little aluminum plates. I pour my salted collodion on the black side of the plate and within 30 seconds I get it in my dark closet with red safelight and submerse it in the silver nitrate for 3-4 minutes. It looks like the plate turns hazy. After that, I load it in dark and go out to take my shot. I've tried multiple exposure times, all over 1 second in bright sunlight and/or artificial lighting. I head back to the closet and pour the developer over the plate. No matter how long I wait....nothing appears on the plate. Rinse it then try a fixer, just in case. Nothing. Black image with golden swirls or blobs. That's all.
I tried testing the pH of my silver nitrate with the included strips and the color on the strips does not change at all. I'm suspecting the silver nitrate may be the issue but, since I'm new, maybe something in my process is bad?

Tin Can
3-Aug-2020, 11:48
First question

are u sure the camera works with film

others will join in soon

i'm done

Ari
3-Aug-2020, 11:51
Did you peel off the plastic from the aluminum plate? Sorry, the most obvious question.
Check your safelight. If it's ok, then look at exposure. What time of day are you shooting at?
Run a test series with intervals of 5 or 10 seconds.
Shoot a plate at 1 second, 5 seconds, and a third plate at 10s and so on, until you start getting an image.
B&S chemicals are pretty reliable, so I'd start with checking your wet plate environment then testing exposure.
If your silver is indeed suspect, contact B&S right away. They can check the batch number to see if anyone else reported problems.

blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 12:07
I'm thinking I need to re-evaluate my darkroom situation, maybe? I've seen plenty of folks use cheap red LED strips in darkrooms and I've used them as well, but this is my first time with wet plate and those lights. Could that be an issue?
I actually have been shooting in a test series as you mentioned. Shot from 1 second to 10 seconds in bright daylight and in artificial light. All to no avail.
I reached out to B&S earlier today. Any thoughts on the pH test? Their instructions indicate that the color should change to be a pH of 3-5. I tried 3 strips and got no results. They just stayed the same colors.

blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 12:08
First question

are u sure the camera works with film

others will join in soon

i'm done

It's a Hasselblad 500c/m...or was that a joke?

Mark Sawyer
3-Aug-2020, 12:53
Perhaps a gross overexposure? One second with an f/2 or 2.8 lens in bright sunlight would be too much.

paulbarden
3-Aug-2020, 13:02
Howdy folks! I'm new to the whole wet plate process but not to photography by any means. I've attempted the wet plate collodion process about 8 times with zero success. Can y'all help identify the issue?
First off, I bought the wet plate collodion kit from Bostick & Sullivan. Mixed up the chems and got everything setup for tintypes. I'm using a Hasselblad 500 c/m with a modified Polaroid back to hold little aluminum plates. I pour my salted collodion on the black side of the plate and within 30 seconds I get it in my dark closet with red safelight and submerse it in the silver nitrate for 3-4 minutes. It looks like the plate turns hazy. After that, I load it in dark and go out to take my shot. I've tried multiple exposure times, all over 1 second in bright sunlight and/or artificial lighting. I head back to the closet and pour the developer over the plate. No matter how long I wait....nothing appears on the plate. Rinse it then try a fixer, just in case. Nothing. Black image with golden swirls or blobs. That's all.
I tried testing the pH of my silver nitrate with the included strips and the color on the strips does not change at all. I'm suspecting the silver nitrate may be the issue but, since I'm new, maybe something in my process is bad?

Bright sunlight at what f-stop? If you're using f16 or smaller, the exposure could be up to ten seconds, possibly more. I suspect your exposures are not long enough. I made a glass collodion negative yesterday at 7AM in filtered bright sunlight and the exposure was 45 seconds at f-3.5

blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 13:13
Bright sunlight at what f-stop? If you're using f16 or smaller, the exposure could be up to ten seconds, possibly more. I suspect your exposures are not long enough. I made a glass collodion negative yesterday at 7AM in filtered bright sunlight and the exposure was 45 seconds at f-3.5

Been shooting only at f8. I'll try an exposure over 10 seconds and see what happens!

Tin Can
3-Aug-2020, 13:18
Test strips with DS


Been shooting only at f8. I'll try an exposure over 10 seconds and see what happens!

blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 13:44
Wow, it really was about exposure time. This shot was in shaded sunlight at f4 just a bit over 15 seconds.

206545

Two23
3-Aug-2020, 13:51
I'm thinking I need to re-evaluate my darkroom situation, maybe? I've seen plenty of folks use cheap red LED strips in darkrooms and I've used them as well, but this is my first time with wet plate and those lights. Could that be an issue?
I actually have been shooting in a test series as you mentioned. Shot from 1 second to 10 seconds in bright daylight and in artificial light. All to no avail.
I reached out to B&S earlier today. Any thoughts on the pH test? Their instructions indicate that the color should change to be a pH of 3-5. I tried 3 strips and got no results. They just stayed the same colors.

The pH strips could be old and no longer active. If they were shipped loose and not in a sealed container that's my guess. Most likely problem is your safe life isn't, or you have a light leak somewhere, or you're not using the camera properly. Try this: put the shutter on timed setting so you KNOW it's open. Insert holder, cover lens with your hand. Pull darkslide and remove hand. For bright daylight I suggest f4 and 2s. Replace your hand to block lens, replace dark slide.
When pouring developer I suggest having plate in a small tray for first attempts. Pour developer into tray but not directly on plate. Tray at angle so developer runs over plate. Should see an image start in 5s or so. Chemicals are likely not the problem.


Kent in SD

blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 14:08
Thank you everyone for the help!
Any tips on cutting down on all the cloudiness and white hazy swirls? I assume that's just getting better with my collodion pour and development pour?

Ari
3-Aug-2020, 14:11
Any tips on cutting down on all the cloudiness and white hazy swirls? I assume that's just getting better with my collodion pour and development pour?
That's all technique, practice, keeping things clean, etc etc which is a refinement I'm also working on.
Those 6x6cm plates look very nice!

blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 14:33
That's all technique, practice, keeping things clean, etc etc which is a refinement I'm also working on.
Those 6x6cm plates look very nice!

Thank you! I don't have any large format cameras yet so I decided to work with what I've got and I love my Hasselblad! Just glue 2 little strips of plastic in a polaroid back and use a sponge to press the plate against the glass.

paulbarden
3-Aug-2020, 15:05
Wow, it really was about exposure time. This shot was in shaded sunlight at f4 just a bit over 15 seconds.

206545

That's what I thought. Glad to see you're getting results now! Awesome.

paulbarden
3-Aug-2020, 15:09
Thank you everyone for the help!
Any tips on cutting down on all the cloudiness and white hazy swirls? I assume that's just getting better with my collodion pour and development pour?

There's nothing wrong with your collodion pour technique. Those swirly marks are contaminated silver from a previous plate making their way onto the surface of the plate and developing out. You'll find that a wet cotton ball LIGHTLY dragged over the surface of the plate (after fixing, in the wash water) will remove 90% of that. The solution is to clean off ANY residual silver left in the film holder after EVERY plate you make. Some of those marks are unavoidable (its inherent in the process) but you can avoid a lot of it by wiping out the film holder after every plate.

I look forward to seeing the next one. Good work.

blaine.hale
3-Aug-2020, 15:29
There's nothing wrong with your collodion pour technique. Those swirly marks are contaminated silver from a previous plate making their way onto the surface of the plate and developing out. You'll find that a wet cotton ball LIGHTLY dragged over the surface of the plate (after fixing, in the wash water) will remove 90% of that. The solution is to clean off ANY residual silver left in the film holder after EVERY plate you make. Some of those marks are unavoidable (its inherent in the process) but you can avoid a lot of it by wiping out the film holder after every plate.

I look forward to seeing the next one. Good work.

Excellent advice! I'll try that in the next shot. My light meter may not drop down to 1 ISO but I found that my phone app does and it seems fairly close to the exposures I shot today, so that's very helpful. Can't wait to post more here!

Two23
3-Aug-2020, 15:43
Been shooting only at f8. I'll try an exposure over 10 seconds and see what happens!

Exposure f8 in bright sun using B&S collodion would probably be around 8s to start would be my guess.


Kent in SD

Two23
3-Aug-2020, 15:46
Excellent advice! I'll try that in the next shot. My light meter may not drop down to 1 ISO but I found that my phone app does and it seems fairly close to the exposures I shot today, so that's very helpful. Can't wait to post more here!


I've found that light meters are useless for collodion. They aren't sensitive to UV light for starters, and the ISO of the collodion itself will change over time.


Kent in SD

goamules
3-Aug-2020, 18:40
You're on your way! The first time shooting, people either think of film, and expose too short, or think wetplate needs more than it does, and go too long. You're in the zone now, and most days at that time should start about there.

Rather than shooting with several plates at various speeds to figure it out, save time and materials. If you can do it with the tiny plate holder, make a test exposure by removing the dark slide just 1/4 of the way out of the holder, and shoot 2 seconds. Then move it 1/4 more out and shoot another 2 seconds, and so on. You will have 4 bands showing exposures of 2, 4, 6 and 8 seconds. At about F4, one of those will be good. Adjust slightly from there.

I used to do about 6 exposure bands on a quarter plate to determine the zone. Now I just lick my finger, hold it up to the wind and light, and guess the time. After a while you will get where you are spot on every time, in any light, and with any age of collodion. It becomes second nature, you can FEEL the light.

blaine.hale
4-Aug-2020, 05:22
You're on your way! The first time shooting, people either think of film, and expose too short, or think wetplate needs more than it does, and go too long. You're in the zone now, and most days at that time should start about there.

Rather than shooting with several plates at various speeds to figure it out, save time and materials. If you can do it with the tiny plate holder, make a test exposure by removing the dark slide just 1/4 of the way out of the holder, and shoot 2 seconds. Then move it 1/4 more out and shoot another 2 seconds, and so on. You will have 4 bands showing exposures of 2, 4, 6 and 8 seconds. At about F4, one of those will be good. Adjust slightly from there.

I used to do about 6 exposure bands on a quarter plate to determine the zone. Now I just lick my finger, hold it up to the wind and light, and guess the time. After a while you will get where you are spot on every time, in any light, and with any age of collodion. It becomes second nature, you can FEEL the light.

I might be able to get at least a couple exposure times on the tiny plate. Hard to gauge where my dark slide is on it. You're right, though, I come from shooting only film so my expectations of exposure times are way off!

Two23
4-Aug-2020, 06:55
I might be able to get at least a couple exposure times on the tiny plate. Hard to gauge where my dark slide is on it. You're right, though, I come from shooting only film so my expectations of exposure times are way off!


I think at most you will have room for two that will be meaningful.


Kent in SD

blaine.hale
4-Aug-2020, 17:04
I've at least figured out exposure times in my shaded backyard, so that's good. Had another success today. I also figured out how to prevent that white hazing. Next up is improving my varnish technique.
206588

Ari
4-Aug-2020, 19:01
Nice going! I've been trying to shoot without a meter and getting a feel for the exposure.
I'm still off all the time, but I'm not too far off most of the time, maybe by 30% or so.
Once I got exposure times in the shade of the backyard at a certain time of day, the next trick was moving about in different lighting conditions and times of day.
That was not so good.
So from now on, I'll do test strips on the first plate.

paulbarden
4-Aug-2020, 19:09
I've at least figured out exposure times in my shaded backyard, so that's good. Had another success today. I also figured out how to prevent that white hazing. Next up is improving my varnish technique.
206588

Excellent work!