Chamonix 4x5 advice, please [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

David Wolf

17-Jul-2020, 15:03

Hello All,

I'd appreciate some info and advice from people who've used Chamonix 4x5 cameras, please.

The Chamonix F-2 is appealing in design and cost, and I'm looking to find a lighter weight camera for field work than the Cambo SC monorail I've taken out of the studio.

As a field camera, I recognize the F-2's movements will be more limited than a monorail, and wonder if Chamonix users have found this to be an impediment when shooting, say, buildings and trees?

I also wonder which lens board people use if they need a recessed one, as Chamonix don't seem to offer one? And do people find a wide angle bellows is useful/needed for the F series?

And, if someone would like to delve into how "the base and asymmetrical tilts of the rear standard. . .makes the camera much easier to use when applying the Scheimpflug principle in compositions involving landscape and architecture photography" ~ that would be awesome : )

My current lenses are Rodenstock Grandagon 90mm F6.8, Fujinon W 125mm F5.6, and Caltar II-N 210mm F5.6.
I print up to 24 x 28.

Thank you for your time!

David

Two23

17-Jul-2020, 15:17

I have the 045N and rarely seem to run out of movements. I usually run out of image circle first. I have the "universal" bellows and don't need a recessed board. The widest lens I have is a 75mm.

Kent in SD

Greg

17-Jul-2020, 15:48

lassethomas

17-Jul-2020, 17:22

Well, I've got the 45H-1 with is a bit different from the F-2, in that it's not foldable. So I couldn't comment of that, lens boards and movement's on the F-2.
But I think the asymmetrical tilt is more or less the same on the F-2 and the 45H-1. The idea is that the tilt rotates around an axis about a third down (or perhaps a fourth, I really never measured) on film plane. This is also marked as a horizontal line on the ground glass.
So if you focus on something that is on that line, for example a distant mountain, you can then tilt the foreground in the upper part into focus, still maintaining the focus on the lower part.
It works when you have a suitable composition, and is convenient, but adds nothing you can't do on your own.
I use it, but would not miss that much. It's not the main reason I like the camera.

CatSplat

18-Jul-2020, 13:09

I also got started with a Cambo SC monorail, and since getting my 45F-2 the Cambo has never left its case. I have not run into a situation where the Chamonix felt particularly limiting to me - it's very versatile and well-designed. You may find setup a bit fiddly, but that's the price you pay for just how small it folds down. If you are used to using a large amount of front rise with the Cambo, remember you can always use the old trick of leaning the body back and using front+rear tilt to effectively get more rise if you find yourself running out of rise on the Chamonix.

The only situation where I have found a recessed lensboard absolutely necessary is when using a 75mm or 65mm lens with a 6x17 rollfilm back, as the back is offset rearward and the recessed board is needed to hit infinity focus. When using the standard 4x5 back, you can achieve infinity focus with a 65mm quite easily and no recessed lensboard is needed. Granted, the bellows are almost totally collapsed at that point, so if you are the sort that likes to use max movements on ultrawide lenses, a recessed lensboard and/or bag bellows may be helpful (I'd lean towards the bag bellows in that situation, Linhof recessed boards are a pain to use).

I use my 90mm/6.8 Grandagon and 125/5.6 Fujinon with standard lensboards and have not felt constrained by the Universal bellows, they work very well. No recessed board or bag bellow necessary, in my opinion.

Alan Klein

18-Jul-2020, 14:58

I have and use a 45N-1 Classic with lenses ranging from a 65mm to a 500mm Tele. I have never run out of available movements. I find that lately I have been using the camera with Chamonix's reflex back pretty much all the time.

Greg I have the reflex back with my 45H-1. I notice that on my 75mm, the side sometimes have like a double picture and harder to focus and compose. What's your experience with wide angle lenses?

Greg

18-Jul-2020, 15:43

Greg I have the reflex back with my 45H-1. I notice that on my 75mm, the side sometimes have like a double picture and harder to focus and compose. What's your experience with wide angle lenses?

Doesn't work well with my 65mm, but that lens I very seldom use. Focus in the center and take off the hood to view the corners of the image. I do remember that maybe 40 or 50 years ago one manufacturer (Was it Linhof Bob?) offered fresnels with different "focal lengths" for wide angle lenses.

Ian Gordon Bilson

20-Jul-2020, 22:23

I have a 45 F2 and could not be happier. The O.P will find all the lenses he lists fully usable, no need for a recessed board. If the need arises, any Linhof-style board should fit. Caveat : with the Universal bellows. It doesn't appear to be well known that the knobs that control the fore/aft movement of the back standard don't just lock, they can be loosened from below, and moved to allow a wide range of stable bellows movements. Plus the camera is,well,handsome. If you acquire one,plan on leaving it on display. Minor niggle - the bails are a pain to release if you often need to remove the GG to fit a RF back. Adding grippable tabs of your own design can be rewarding. If separate locking of front rise and tilt is important to you, the F2 has them.

esearing

21-Jul-2020, 04:24

David Wolf

23-Jul-2020, 17:18

Thanks to Everyone for the very useful and encouraging replies, I appreciate it!

It may be the teak model of the 4x5 F2 is no longer available. Do people have thoughts re: teak vs. cherry vs. maple? I thought cherry was a relatively soft wood, so am surprised by the choice for a field camera. I don't think maple is offered any more. Which model, of any Chamonix, do you have, and your thoughts?

Many thanks,
David

Two23

23-Jul-2020, 17:43

Mine is made of black walnut. I chose that because I like it.:) I don't think wood choice has any effect on the images, it's more of a personal preference.

Kent in SD

Alan Klein

23-Jul-2020, 18:48

David, do you hike far or do you shoot short distances from your car like I do? I found the 45H-1 acceptable for the latter. It saves assembly time including having to mount the lens.

Greg Y

23-Jul-2020, 20:09

David Wolf, Cherry is a hardwood. You won't have any problems with it. I had a 57n (horizontal) in black walnut. I now have a 45F2 in teak. On the hardness scale cherry is marginally less hard than walnut. I shoot mountain landscapes and the odd portrait. Typical field camera stuff. The Chamonix has all the stuff, but then again so did my ancient Deardorffs.

Typical Janka hardness values
Species Force: pounds-force (newtons)
Black Walnut, North American Walnut 1,010 lbf (4,500 N)
Cherry 995 lbf (4,430 N)

grat

24-Jul-2020, 06:22

Teak is somewhat more durable, but also heavier. Since the structural components are mostly carbon fiber and aluminum, the wood isn't going to be that much of an issue unless you shoot while wearing metal gauntlets, or make a habit of rolling your camera down a rocky ravine. The weakest link is going to be the bellows, not the wood frames.

David Wolf

24-Jul-2020, 11:07

Thanks Everyone for the new info about wood types. From your comments, this seems to be more of a choice based on the camera's appearance rather than functionality.

So, if anyone has pictures of their own camera to share, that'd be useful to make comparisons. Chamonix have pictures on their site of both teak and cherrywood models, but the lighting makes direct comparison difficult. It's hard to tell if one wood is consistently lighter in color, etc. Sure would be nice to visit a shop with these on display, but that seems to be something in the past, and not likely in the near future ~

Thanks again!
David

PS Kentband Greg, Black Walnut must be stunning!

Greg Y

24-Jul-2020, 11:38

David, I always liked black walnut & would have gotten the 45F2 in BW if it had been available. I had the Chamonix 57 as well as a black walnut Canham 8x10 traditional. There's a solution for you...if you're set on black walnut. Canham's are all made of black walnut. Here's a shaky iPhone snap of my 45F2. The chair is fir, the camera, teak.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50148183088_a784956bcc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jpqxGm)IMG_9567 (https://flic.kr/p/2jpqxGm) by Greg Yavorsky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156629749@N02/), on Flickr

Ian Gordon Bilson

2-Aug-2020, 21:28

David Wolf asked about my modification. The problem : removing the GG to use a rollfilm back requires 3 hands. By adding two tabs, and using the removable spirit level,which lives atop the front standard, removal is simple. Pull a bail out, using the tab, and slip the edge of the level into the slot to hold the bail out. Pull the other tab, and the GG removes cleanly. I admit, it's fugly, and I apologise for the dust.. Mark II will be better looking.206514

grat

3-Aug-2020, 08:36

David Wolf asked about my modification. The problem : removing the GG to use a rollfilm back requires 3 hands.

It is slightly awkward. Fortunately, my hand has enough span that with a little practice, I'm able to lift the end of both brackets with a fingertip and a thumb, and slide the back out.

Equivet96

7-Feb-2021, 14:47

I have the 45-N2 and it works great with 65mm to 315 with no extension board needed. Easy to clean/replace ground glass layers and reflex viewer clamps on easily. Its a well thought out camera. I doubt I would ever use the asymmetrical tilts of the F series. The horseman 6x9 MF back works with the standard graflock back and ground glass removed (No extra back required).
I also ordered a 5x12 from Chamonix due this fall, so I like the brand and their design features.

Hello, I just got a 45 N2, I am happy with build and operation of the camera. But with wide angle, it is not possible to focus my 65mm Rodenstock to infinity, my next wideangle with 80mm can be focussed only of you push the back forward to the macimum front position, but no minimal movement is possible.
Using the standard universal bellows, no wide angle bellows.
The original data sheet tells that minimum bellows is 52 mm.
That was one aspect, why I changed from my Wista 45, but now this Chamonix has less usability from my point of view....
Am I wrong? Wide angle bellows necessary?
Thanks and best regards, Ulrich

Greg

7-Feb-2021, 15:08

Equivet96

8-Feb-2021, 02:36

"it is not possible to Focus my 65mm Rodenstock to infinity"

I am missing something obvious here. I also have and use a Chamonix 45N-2. My 65mm f/4 Nikkor-SW has no problem focusing at infinity with its OEM "regular" bellows. Are you screwing the front standard into the female threads nearest to the GG?

Hello and thanks for your response. Of course the front standard is mounted into the last/shortest position possible. I attached some photos to see what I mean... in every position the distance between lensboard an ground glass does not reach nearly something with 65 mm.
Shortest distance seems to be 75 mm...

80 mm is possible, but no, absolute no movements at all....

If anybody can help, please let me know.

Thank you, Ulrich

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Greg

8-Feb-2021, 06:54

Hello and thanks for your response. Of course the front standard is mounted into the last/shortest position possible. I attached some photos to see what I mean... in every position the distance between lensboard an ground glass does not reach nearly something with 65 mm.
Shortest distance seems to be 75 mm...

80 mm is possible, but no, absolute no movements at all....

If anybody can help, please let me know.

Thank you, Ulrich

212438212436212437

Possibly try moving the 2 horizontal knobs in the bed forward to allow the camera to close more? We have the exact same camera and as you can see mine easily accommodates the 65mm lens.

Roberto Nania

8-Feb-2021, 07:31

Hello and thanks for your response. Of course the front standard is mounted into the last/shortest position possible. I attached some photos to see what I mean... in every position the distance between lensboard an ground glass does not reach nearly something with 65 mm.
Shortest distance seems to be 75 mm...

80 mm is possible, but no, absolute no movements at all....

If anybody can help, please let me know.

Thank you, Ulrich

212438212436212437

If you release the two knobs for the rear standard swing, you'd be able to gain another couple of centimeter which should allows you to focus your 65mm lens at infinity, albeit I would looked at the 45H models if your wide angle lens is so wide.

Alan Klein

8-Feb-2021, 07:41

Is there a separate knob that release the bed to move? My 45H-1 has one.

Equivet96

8-Feb-2021, 10:03

If you release the two knobs for the rear standard swing, you'd be able to gain another couple of centimeter which should allows you to focus your 65mm lens at infinity, albeit I would looked at the 45H models if your wide angle lens is so wide.

Thanks a lot Greg and Roberto,
you are right, I loosent just the 2 knobs for the rear swing on the top of the dropbed and that was shown on one of my photos... BUT there is another fixing knob on the bottom of the dropbed which can be unlocked, so the complete knob is moveable and does not get into the way of the bottom of the rear standard.
Now I have "endless" way to focus....

My error - and just so easy to solve - thanks a lot for opening my eyes....!

Best regards

Greg

8-Feb-2021, 12:08

Thanks a lot Greg and Roberto,
you are right, I loosent just the 2 knobs for the rear swing on the top of the dropbed and that was shown on one of my photos... BUT there is another fixing knob on the bottom of the dropbed which can be unlocked, so the complete knob is moveable and does not get into the way of the bottom of the rear standard.
Now I have "endless" way to focus....

My error - and just so easy to solve - thanks a lot for opening my eyes....!

Best regards

Years ago when I got my 11x14 Chamonix, I put my 5.9" No. 5 Gray Periscope lens on it and was surprised that I couldn't get the lens to focus at infinity. Actually fabricated an adapter so that I could achieve infinity focus with the lens. After using the camera in the field a few times, I accidentally discovered that by loosening the knobs and moving them I could easily achieve infinity focus with the Gray. You aren't alone....