Expired FP4+

[MattKHardy]

Hi,

Picked up some FP4+ off the bay for 20 quid! The catch is that its expired (Oct 2018)...

This is the first test shot (shot at half-box-speed, developed in XTOL stock for 6.5 minutes):

205635

The bottom of the photo is nice and clean, but in the top left hand corner there appears to be dirt/mold/fungus.

205636

Could this be a symptom of the film being expired?

Thanks for any help!

[Jimi]

Less than ideal storage condition (moisture), I'd say. The film is not exceptionally out-of-date, less than two years old. I have bought some expired Ilford FP4+ off the 'Bay too, but I need to develop my first sheets (looking at them now: my boxes are also with an October 2018 expiry date). One takes a few chances every now and then ...

[MattKHardy]

Hi Jimi, many thanks for your advice!

The second test shot was much better:

205637

This time the film was soaked in water for 2 minutes before development (XTOL stock for 6.5 minutes). Putting the negatives side-by-side the first negative looks very muddy/dirty, and this one looks a lot cleaner. Maybe the negatives at either end of the packet pick up moisture?

[Jim Noel]

Hi Jimi, many thanks for your advice!

The second test shot was much better:

205637

This time the film was soaked in water for 2 minutes before development (XTOL stock for 6.5 minutes). Putting the negatives side-by-side the first negative looks very muddy/dirty, and this one looks a lot cleaner. Maybe the negatives at either end of the packet pick up moisture?

They are the ones most likely to suffer fromage or poor storage.

[MattKHardy]

Another test shot, and the black spots are back. All over this time. The film was soaked before developing:

206033

206035

Can I be sure its the film?

[MattKHardy]

Another test shot, and the black spots are back. All over this time. The film was soaked before developing:

206033

206035

Can I be sure its the film?

The sheets of film are sticking together as I try and take them out of the packet.

Rather than bin it, might it be possible to rinse/dry the film before using it in the camera?

[Jimi]

Could it be that the water used contains a lot of iron? I think it would save you a bit of grief to actually buy a new box of film for any serious work, and leave this box for tests. Since you have to pull the sheets apart, I am thinking it has seen some serious moisture.

I don't think you can rinse and dry it before using it.

[MattKHardy]

Could it be that the water used contains a lot of iron? I think it would save you a bit of grief to actually buy a new box of film for any serious work, and leave this box for tests. Since you have to pull the sheets apart, I am thinking it has seen some serious moisture.

I don't think you can rinse and dry it before using it.

Hi Jimi, many thanks for your advice. Shall just use it for testing in future.

Shall definitely try fp4 again. The one good sheet of film showed absolutely no grain and wasn't as flat as Delta 100.

[Drew Wiley]

Two years post-date is nothing. I've used FP4 sheet film 20 years post-date no problem. Seems like some moisture got to your film during improper storage.

[Torontoamateur]

was the bag open when you bought it? Or was the bag inside the boxes intact with original seal?

[Greg]

Ilford FP was introduced in 1968 and replaced by FP4+ in 1990. Last year I took out my last box of FP4 and used it. Unfortunately all my ZONE System film processing data was for using Edwal FG-7 in a 9% Sodium Sulfite solution. Now down to my last box of frozen 11x14 Bergger 200, and now experiencing the same feelings when I used my last box of SUPER-XX. Still have a box of a dozen 4x5 Eastman UNIVERSAL PLATES with "3015 17 19" stamped on the back... this year will get a 4x5 glass plate holder and see what I get, but not all that optimistic about even getting images on those glass plates.

[Drew Wiley]

Times for FP4 versus FP4+ shouldn't be significantly different, provided aging itself hasn't introduced another variable. My old notes imply that. Unfortunately, all the old FP4 sheets I've still got were never frozen, so probably no good for much of anything, especially testing. The original emulsion was also rather soft, so came with paper inter-leafing between sheets. Bergger 200 was a wonderful film for 8x10 work, but my stash of that is long gone. I did run into a single 20 year old sheet of ACROS 8x10 in a paper safe I thought was empty. So I did a what the heck shot with it that involved some tricky dodging/burning plus red dye to balance out fbf aging hot spots; but the final image was remarkable - a semi-solarized sun disc amidst partially veiling clouds, almost eclipse-like, with equally surreal shadows in the foreground. No normal piece of film would have done that.

[MattKHardy]

was the bag open when you bought it? Or was the bag inside the boxes intact with original seal?

Box still had the stickers intact. Can't remember if the bag had a sticker...

[Drew Wiley]

Sealed inner bags are not a universal custom. Some films were simply put into folded-over black poly bags before the outer clamshell box, and therefore not totally immune from moisture intrusion if stored incorrectly. That might have been the case with original FP4. I can't remember.