Information sought on a lens by C Burr, London

[pgk]

I picked up, cheaply enough, what I thought was probably a Rapid Rectilinear lens by C Burr, of London. With a little persuasion it disassembled and after having cleaned decades of caked on muck off the lenses, it turned out to be relatively unblemished with just a couple of very minor scratches. I put it on a camera and cut out a black plastic stop just to try it with. Focal length (stop to film plane) is about 13". Wide open it covered 10" x 8" so I transferred it to a 12" x 10" camera and it still appears to cover this too, even wide open, so obviously greater stopped down. After a bit of research I'm wondering whether its not what I thought. It appears that C Burr was a lens maker (as opposed to retailer) by 1859 - to the trade according to an advert. About twenty years later his lenses were still being advertised, but by a sole agent (Abrahams in London) so he doesn't appear to have been retailing them direct even then. Does anyone have any further information? As ever these small lens makers do seem to be poorly documented. A photo is attached and it is about 2" in diameter and 2 1/2" from flange area to the front. It appears to be simply but well made and the threads are very well cut. Any information would be of interest.
205442

[pgk]

August 15th 1860:
205479

[Andrew Plume]

Burr, Charles, 138, Wakefield St., East Ham, London.
Burr was listed as a maker of portrait lenses about 1900-1905 and advertised in the B.J.A. The firm were long
established as opticians, and their range was wider in the 1890's, probably then shrinking as new designs and
competition came.
A biggish Petzval has been seen, a No2 lens, about 9in. No 632x, working at about f4. Another portrait was a
No3 at No4622, of unknown size.
Fig 024 013 C. Burr Portrait Petzval No6322 No2 size.
A doublet lens (ie ?RR) on a 12x15in Lizars was No4,78x.
Wide angle This was noted as a 8in lens for 12x8in with wheel stops

[Andrew Plume]

Hi Paul

I'm sure that you have access to the 'LVM' but anyhow I've posted the extract from there above

I've owned (and sold) a handful of Burr's, from memory a couple of Petzval's and WAR's, I always felt that they were well made

regards

Andrew

[Andrew Plume]

I'm sure that you're also aware of this (as per the 'early photography' site):-

138 Wakefield St., East Ham, London From 1890s to after 1942
195 Devon's Rd., Bow Common, London - 1876 -
1 Gray's Inn Rd., London 1863 -
121 Gray's Inn Lane, London WC 1861 - 1863
48 Clerkenwell Close, London EC c. 1858 -

Established in 1858, as opticians. In the 1860s they were advertising as lens and camera makers, from the 1900s they are advertising lenses. Charles Burr (b. 1839, d. 1902) was living at the Devon's Rd. address in 1881.
References: BJA 1903, p. 680.

[pgk]

Thanks Andrew. I hadn't looked at the VM as yet. The lens has no engraved specifications, nor address. Going from online info I'm thinking it may be a 'widish' RR from the 1870s?

[Andrew Plume]

Thanks Paul

and btw I haven't seen a lens comparable to yours but there aren't that many Burr lenses 'around' per se

regards

Andrew

[Andrew Plume]

And..............

You have probably seen the reference in 'McKeowns' to Burr having made both a Stereo Tailboard and a Quarter-Plate Wet Camera

I'm pretty well now 'out' with my contribution(s)

regards

Andrew

[peter brooks]

No further info on the maker but I have a lens engraved

C. Burr, Optician. London
10 x 8 Rapid Doublet
4539

It has a slot for stops. I haven't used it (yet) but it is well made and the glass is in excellent condition.

Apart from the VM and Earlyphotography details that Andrew quoted (and a few other lenses via Google / Worthpoint etc) I haven't seen anything else on the maker, so would also be interested if anything turns up.

Stating the obvious but it must have been a very natural progression for an optician to start manufacturing cameras lenses.

[pgk]

Could you tell me the physical dimensions of your lens please?

[Andrew Plume]

Hi Paul

I believe that you're on:-

http://britishphotohistory.ning.com/?xg_source=msg_mes_network

any joy for you on there................??

regards

Andrew

[pgk]

Yes. Tying specific photos to being taken on specific lenses during the 1850/60s is not easy, but I have certainly found a few, or have discovered specific photographers/locations/dates which I am now trying to find the photos from. Some photographers left a great 'evidence trail' but others did not. It also appears that equipment and its attributes has been a cause of controversy and discussion from the start of photography!

[peter brooks]

Could you tell me the physical dimensions of your lend please?

My lens has a hood, and a black band just below it but they look similar. Nice to see that the 'L' of London is in an identical script :)

(Metric inches seems so wrong but that is digital verniers for you).

The barrel is 2.25" diameter approx (slightly under).
Back of the flange to start of the hood (top of black band) is 2.9".
Back of the flange to the Waterhouse slot is just over 1.25"
Rear glass is just under 2", front glass looks to be the same.
Flange threads are about 2.5".

The rear group unthreads, the front doesn't (and I don't see a reason to try to persuade it right now).

With the rear group removed I get four reflections from the front group, and three from the rear. Does that mean an air spaced double at the front and a cemented double at the rear? I don't know enough about lenses to decode this to a 'type' but would be interested to know.

The focal length looks to be just over 15", gg to slot.

205547205548

[pgk]

Looks fairly similar but they are not identical - mine is 2" in diameter and never had a hood (no provision for one). I get 2 reflections from the front and 2 from the rear. I wonder if Mr Burr was a one man band, building to orders?