New HC110 Liquid Same as Old HC110 Syrup?

[LFLarry]

Hi, I just received a new order of some Kodak HC110 and was surprised it wasn't the syrup. I guess I wasn't paying attention about this change.

Two questions:

1 - Are the dilution ratios the same for the liquid and the syrup?

2 - Any other notable changes that I should know about regarding using the new liquid formula vs. the syrup?

Thanks in advance for your help.

-Larry

[Drew Wiley]

There are miles of thread on this very question over on APUG. Consensus is that the working properties are nearly identical. What remains in question is whether or not the newest formula concentrate has the same remarkable storage life of previous versions or not.

[LFLarry]

Thanks Drew.



There are miles of thread on this very question over on APUG. Consensus is that the working properties are nearly identical. What remains in question is whether or not the newest formula concentrate has the same remarkable storage life of previous versions or not.

[Alan9940]

A few over on PHOTRIO have reported some minor storage issues; not sure, yet, if the issues affect the capability of the concentrate. Otherwise, processing appears to be the same times at the various dilutions.

[LFLarry]

Good Info, thank you for sharing.


A few over on PHOTRIO have reported some minor storage issues; not sure, yet, if the issues affect the capability of the concentrate. Otherwise, processing appears to be the same times at the various dilutions.

[Ben Calwell]

I’ve been using the “new” HC110, and so far it’s giving me the same results as the old stuff at the dilutions I’m used to working with. The new HC110 is easier to pour and measure, too. I still have a bottle of the old stuff that’s got to be more than 10 years old, and I’ve used it with success, too. I hope this new HC110 will have similar keeping properties.

[Greg]

I still have a bottle of the old stuff that’s got to be more than 10 years old, and I’ve used it with success, too. I hope this new HC110 will have similar keeping properties.

Came across 2 bottles of unopened Rodinal and HC-110 that have to be almost 30 years old. Shot a test roll of 120 and processed half in one developer and half in the other developer. Both films looked fine. Now to figure out how to approach processing a sealed box of a dozen 4x5 Eastman glass plates that are more than 100 years old. Have to acquire a used 4x5 glass plate holder first... Scary part is that if I successfully process one of the glass plates, what to shoot with the other 11.

[Mark Sawyer]

Just as background info, the old HC110 was glycol-based, not water-based. Glycol will not give up oxygen to degrade the chemistry. Water will. I don't know what the current HC110 uses as a base.

[Mark Sampson]

And long ago, the HC-110 'syrup' was a dark brown from the factory. At some point (in the 1980s) the color changed to bright yellow. The working characteristics were unchanged (I was running a replenished sink line using it at the time) but it did cause some wonderment, as Kodak (then my employer) never announced any changes. Fred Picker wrote a pretty good rant about it, in his newsletter, at the time. I haven't used HC-110 in over 20 years so can't offer any useful advice, sorry.

[Mark Sawyer]

And long ago, the HC-110 'syrup' was a dark brown from the factory. At some point (in the 1980s) the color changed to bright yellow...

The bright yellow eventually goes to the dark brown, but still works as well as it did when it was new. Also as well as the old dark brown stuff did when it was new. And the old dark brown stuff also worked like new when it was old.

I suspect some sort of time-travel or temporal anomaly is involved...

[Jerry Bodine]

Just as background info, the old HC110 was glycol-based, not water-based. Glycol will not give up oxygen to degrade the chemistry. Water will. I don't know what the current HC110 uses as a base.

Here's the page on Photrio where Oren Grad posted (#27) the MSDS for a 2014 version compared to the MSDS for the 2019 version. I'm no chemist and don't know if this will be any help in deciding whether the new one is water-based or glycol-based. I don't see water listed in the ingredients.:) Bill Troop certainly knows what he's doing, and he wasn't able to draw any conclusions about the longevity of the new stuff.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-formula.169322/page-2

[John Olsen]

Thanks for posting this - I hadn't noticed the "New Formula" on my recent purchase. Is the mixing process the same, or are dilutions different?

Also, where the heck have all the Kodak tech sheets gone? All I can find on the new web site is corporate puffery.

[Nodda Duma]

I’ve been using the new HC-110 and, from what I can tell, longevity of working solution is different than the older solution. I’m in the process of characterizing development activity fall-off over time.

[Drew Wiley]

Are you speaking about dev concentrate, Jason, or mixed stock solution ?

[Nodda Duma]

Are you speaking about dev concentrate, Jason, or mixed stock solution ?

I always mix from concentrate, and my go-to is dil B.

[goamules]

Well I didn't know this. I use HC110 in tiny amounts from my last bottle, for LF and 35mm. My dilution is H, so it takes a long time to use an opened bottle, shooting as little as I do now.

[Rod Klukas]

I always used HC110 1:31 straight from the bottle (Dilution B) with great consistent results. It lasted a long time in syrup form that way, even with color changes.

[Drew Wiley]

But the remaining question is, how long does the latest undilute CONCENTRATE last in comparison to the old formula? It might take awhile to find out, and I'm not the best candidate to decide that, because my own little stash of original HC-110 is going to take quite awhile to use up, and I know it keeps superbly in concentrate, even if only a little of the syrup is still left in the bottle.

[Edward Pierce]

The new formula does not keep as well as the old syrup. I opened a bottle of the new stuff a few months ago, used about half of it, and now find that the remainder has formed crystals in it. I tried stirring it to dissolve the crystals, but no luck. The bottle has an expiration date of 2021. I went ahead and used it, and it seemed to work fine, but who knows, there could be a slight variation in performance I didn’t notice. My faith in Kodak chemistry, however, is waning. It used to be the gold standard one could rely on as an unchanging variable. Now after seeing brown Dektol, precipitate in Kodafix and HC-110, I’m seriously considering mixing my own from scratch.

[Neal Chaves]

I switched from HC110 which I had used since the late 60s to Ilford IlfoTec HC several years ago. I found the times at 1:31 and other dilutions were exactly the same as those I had derived for HC110.

[John Layton]

Still have a bottle (more of a "bottom of the bottle") of the old stuff - thick and black as blackstrap molasses...and as old as some remaining sheets of 1988 expiry, 11x14 Tri-X (stored in various hot attics over the years). Know what? Still Works!!

[Bill Poole]

It's easy enough to find 250 ml brown bottles online. The first thing I do is to decant the newly opened HC110 concentrate into four bottles filled to the top and tightly capped and then use them one at a time. I have not used the 2019 non-syrup preperation yet, but this seems like an even better idea if there is some question about it's longevity.