Color contact printing

[pkr1979]

Hi there all,

So, I'm about to do some color printing and was hoping I could get some help in how to start out. The film used is Kodak Portra 160 and the paper I intend to use is Fujicolor Type II Lustre. Im using a Durst M670 Color as a light source... and I have to be honest - I have no idea on how to set the yellow, red and blue... or maybe its yellow, magenta and cyan... Whats right for that film?

Also, I assume I don't have to develop exposed papers right away?

Cheers
Peter

[Dugan]

Good advice. ^^^^
You don't use all three because you'd just be adding neutral density.

[pkr1979]

Thanks,

I'll check out that book.

Cheers
Peter

[pkr1979]

One more thing... for how long am I supposed to expose the paper? I assumed it would have some sort of ISO like film.

[koraks]

Also, I assume I don't have to develop exposed papers right away?

Depends on how you define 'right away', but I don't see how you're going to get the right exposure and a decent color balance if you don't print more or less immediately. You don't know how to adjust your filters if you don't see what you're getting.
Having said that, the paper manufacturers generally give some info on latent image stability of their papers. If I recall correctly, they usually recommend developing the paper within 24 hours. But again, this only makes sense in a rather tightly controlled environment where you know *exactly* what filter settings will produce the desired result and you could theoretically expose a bunch of paper and then batch develop it. However, in a typical home darkroom, that's just not reality and you work just as with B&W; expose a test strip, develop, evaluate and adjust exposure (& color filtration) as required, and repeat until satisfied with the result and the final print(s) is/are made.

[wager123]

I think you might want to pass on the book by Henry Horenstein i checked it out it $950 on Amazon

[cp_photo]

I found the Horenstein book used online for less than $10. On abebooks dot com

[Vaughn]

One more thing... for how long am I supposed to expose the paper? I assumed it would have some sort of ISO like film.

The way I learned was to try to stay around the same exposure time, as colors will start to shift as the exposure gets longer. My test 'strip' was four separate exposures of 10 seconds each on a sheet of paper. I changed the aperture for each 10 sec. exposure and picked the best one...plus or minus a few seconds.

[agregov]

One more thing... for how long am I supposed to expose the paper? I assumed it would have some sort of ISO like film.

I usually expose an 8x10 print around 6-10 seconds in total. That means about 2-3 seconds per test strip (say 4-5 strips on an 8x10). You don't want to go under around 3 seconds total exposure time as you'll start to hit reciprocity failure. There's little advantage to going longer than around 10 seconds for an 8x10 sized print. Larger size prints (16x20 on up could see longer exposure times depending on the wattage of your enlarger and lens focal length).

A note on color correcting C prints. It does take some time to learn how to see color casts. You won't likely be very good after a few printing sessions. Give yourself some time. I would suggest at the beginning, make single color changes at a time (red/cyan, yellow/blue, magenta/green). For example, if you see a magenta color cast, then you'll need to add green. You'll need a Kodak Color Print Viewing Filter Kit to help see your color casts. You can find them on the big auction site. As mentioned earlier, all this info is in the Horenstein book. Amazed on it's price these days. It's good but not that good.

[koraks]

One more thing... for how long am I supposed to expose the paper? I assumed it would have some sort of ISO like film.

Color paper sensitivity, translated to film terms, would be somewhere around 12 iso or so. Faster than b&w paper, slower than typical film.

Exposure times vary wildly depending on the negative, enlargement and equipment used. They can be anything between 2-3 seconds to 30 seconds. It all depends...

[pkr1979]

Thanks again all,

Do you guys prefer trays or Jobo? I figured Id use Jobo as temperature control is easier. Im trying the new Tetenal Magic Box RA-4 (https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/tetenal-magic-box-ra-4-developer.html), however... my German is slightly rubbish and copy paste to Google Translate isnt working: https://www.fotoimpex.com/shop/images/products/media/65775_4_PDF-Datenblatt.pdf soooooo I dont really know what it says. Anyway, its pretty short times, and in this regard I suppose trays might be more convenient. But, what happens if the exposed paper is too long in the developer?

Cheers
Peter

[agregov]

I would not use trays. The chemistry is pretty potent. Also, you're working in complete darkness. Tough to see what you're doing. I would load a Jobo drum (again in complete darkness), then switch on the lights and make your development run (developer, Blix, washes). Note, you'll ideally want your print dry to evaluate color casts. A print dryer would be helpful.

[koraks]

I find trays the most convenient personally. No temperature condition necessary, just do it all at room temperature with extended processing time. 90 seconds development does it for me. Drums are too much of a hassle with drying them in between prints/strips and there's a plethora of threads from people who try to solve problems with unevenness and consistency that suggests drums are certainly not a superior or trouble free approach.

[agregov]

I personally have found no need to dry drums in-between prints. Simply pre-wet the paper in the drum with a water rinse going before going into the developer step. I've testing with dry drums versus wet drums/pre-wetting and have seen zero difference in quality of the final print. That said, RA4 printing in a Jobo isn't all that fun. No comparison to working with a proper paper processor (dry in dry out). But obviously, those are hard to come by these days. You do still need a drying step with trays for accurate color correction. If you're after a side project for making a few color RA4 prints for fun, by all means try trays. But for serious color printing work, I can't see how working in trays is a scalable system for making fine art quality RA4 work. At minimum, you'd need a Jobo. Better yet, a color processor like a Fujimoto. For myself, if I didn't have access to a RA4 processor, I would simply move to scanning and print via inkjet for color.

[koraks]

A hairdryer works quite well to dry a test strip within a few seconds. Squeegee first, then blast with hot air.

Trays of course limit the size at which you can print conveniently. I don't go beyond about 30x50cm personally.

Of course an rt processor is nice, but as you pointed out, you need to run a decent volume through it to make it worthwhile with the warmup times and cleaning racks etc.

[LabRat]

Paper speed not too different than B/W RC (fast)... Probably less than a few seconds, so use an enlarging timer that will also set to fractions of a seconds...

Usually have to work fast with Type C papers...

Depending on light source, negs etc, start by setting y/m to 20 to 40cc, and take notes when you find it, and use that for the next starting point... Expect to make a bunch of test strips sooner to get into ballpark...

Steve K

[pkr1979]

I'm tempted to try doing this at room temp. But doesn't this have any other consequences then longer development time (contrast/saturation)?
Also, developing paper - this isn't something that is done to completion? Its possible to overdevelop paper?

[koraks]

There's a small difference in filtration at lower temperatures, but adjusted for this, prints are indistinguishable. Development is pretty much to completion, but just like with b&w paper, the margin isn't endless. There is however a margin; eg I noticed no difference between 90 and 120 seconds in my room temp prints.
Do make sure to blix adequately. Blix speed is of course also slower at lower temperatures. On the other hand, official blix times appear to be rather conservative.

[pkr1979]

Do make sure to blix adequately. Blix speed is of course also slower at lower temperatures. On the other hand, official blix times appear to be rather conservative.

What kind of Blix times do you operate with when developing at room temp?

[koraks]

What kind of Blix times do you operate with when developing at room temp?

90 seconds for final prints, but for test strips often only 20-30 seconds.

[pkr1979]

Cool - thanks.
Cheers.

[Drew Wiley]

I standardize all times for sake of consistency, both chemically and in relation to rote methodology, lest I forget (2 min for both Dev and Blix @ 83F, stop and rinses are briefer, final wash considerably longer). Times shorter than that risk too much of the interlude being allotted to fill and drain of the drum, even though my drums fill and drain far quicker than a Jobo drum, for example. I've never gotten acceptably predictable results the "room temp" method.