Faces of demonstrators caught on film

[John Kasaian]

Just curious---I've been invited to a demonstration where people on both sides will be very, very emotionally charged.

I'm not a demonstrator kind of guy despite my 60's and 70's upbringing, but this particular demonstration would be fertile ground for street photography of...well...emotionally charged people. I'd like to attend to document the emotions of the demonstrators and counter demonstrators (in spite of once getting caught, quite by accident, between the S.F. Tac Squad carrying big sticks and an emotional Free Tibet contingent in front of the St. Francis Hotel, where some chinese diplomat was staying back in '85) but the issue I have is---what can I do with the photographs(OK the photographs I haven't taken yet, but hope to?)

Can they be published in magazine or book form or could they be exhibited? Without model releases? I can't very well ask for model releases when the fur starts flying. This would be for editorial or documentary purposes, not to advertise tear gas, big sticks or anything like that.

I don't want to risk another broken schozzola for nothing.

Cheers!

[Dean Tomasula]

John, if you plan to sell the photos to a newspaper or magazine, then that's considered editorial use and you do not need a model release.

But if you wan to publish a book or exhibit them, you should get a model release to be on the safe side. You never know when one of the demonstrators might walk into a gallery and see his snarling face in a photo available for sale -- and hope to get a piece of the action.

[Ernest Purdum]

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the general rule is that if it's news, there is no right to privacy - no need for releases.

Many years ago, I attended a very strange Fourth of July celebration on the Mall at Washington D.C.. It's the only one I have been to where the smell of tear gas was noticeable. There was a big tower which had loudspeakers, I think, but also two men of FBI appearance who had an interesting camera, a Hulcher with a very long lens. (A Hulcher is a big long-roll motordrive camera, in this case a 70mm which took something like 2 1/4" X 5" images.) Whenever there was any suggestion of disturbance, the Hulcher would spin around and point. The idea must have been to make very identifiable photos.

[Capocheny]

John,

Can't help you with the publication and model release end of things but I do have a word of advice... if those big bruiser police types dressed in full riot gear start to tap their batons against their shields, haul your butt out of there asap! Analogy: a rattlesnake shaking their tails is definitely sending a signal!

A few years ago at a political event... I watched such a squad in action. They meant business and they knew how to disperse a crowd!

Be safe!

Cheers

[Ron Marshall]

John, Just curious what camera you are planning to take with you.

[Wayne Crider]

Make your own press pass and wear it around your neck. Have a camera bag hanging off your shoulder. Make sure you have insurance. Then start your own blog (news) and sell pic's thru it.

[Nacio Jan Brown]

John, This might be a photographer's urban legend, but I have always been under the impression that no right to privacy can be expected in public places. That said, it occurs to me that the notion of "public places" is a bit murky. Clearly covered would be city streets, but what about sports arenas or grocery stores? In your specific case you should be ok publishing your shots as news. But later on a gallery wall I don't know. Any attorneys out there well versed in this area of the law? njb

[John_4185]

But if you wan to publish a book or exhibit them, you should get a model release to be on the safe side.

Horse-Pucky. It's a public space, and an especially public event, a display of voluntary angst. You can exhibit and sell the pictures.

Make your own press pass and wear it around your neck.

All that does is further discredit people who are the press, and diminish anyone's opinion of Yet Another Fake, a poseur. Be a straight citizen, stand on your own two feet as who you are. You have as much a right to be there as any member of the public.

Ask me how I know. I'd be happy to show you.

[Frank Petronio]

Wear dark clothes that fit smoothly and prevent people from grabbing you. And heavy stomping boots because a swift kick can accomplish a lot. Keep the camera on a short strap. Look professional and stay away from trouble and I bet the baddies leave you alone.

[John Kasaian]

Thanks for all the responses. Theres a lot to think about.

Henry C. : Yeah tapping those night sticks against thier shields----thats what the TAC squad was doing alright. I made an end-run through a TV camera crew shortly afterward. A very surrealistic experience I still remember quite well. Funny thing, just 15 minutes before I had a long friendly talk with one of the mounties about his horse.

Ron Marshall: Either the Crown Graphic or Nikon F2 (The F2 with a 105mm on board being a great field expedient weapon, BTW)

Nacio Jan Brown: Thats something I find confusing. A participant in a lawful permitted public demonstration would seem to me to be participating with full knowlege that his/her presence is "news" and intends to be documented and published (hey, demonstrations are supposed to call attention to an issue, right?) OTOH, unpermitted spontaineous counter demonstrators have no such intent, do they?

About the Hulcher Camera--- I had the pleasure of attending a Calif. State Attorney General sponsored class on Neo Nazi Hate groups and got to see the results of a Hulcher that recorded a really bizarre "garden party" attended by meth dealing nazi bikers and very conservatively dressed fascist organizers. WOW, that was really wierd. "Leaders" of various white supreme-iscst groups from as far away as Idaho were identified by the Hulcher's apparently candid photographs. The onnly drawback to the class is security was rather tight and we had to wear our credentials which read something like "White Suprency & Neo Nazi Youth Hate Group Course" out to lunch in an inner city area surrounding the convention center were the class was being held. Life is full of adventure, thats for sure!

Wayne Crider: I think I can wrangle press credentials from a small specialty publication if I grease the right desk with "Krispy Kremes." Good suggestion!

Lots to think about! Thank you all!

[John_4185]

Wayne Crider: I think I can wrangle press credentials from a small specialty publication if I grease the right desk with "Krispy Kremes." Good suggestion!

On the contrary. What makes you think a press pass is going to help you one bit? It's a fantasy, and a stupid idea.

[windpointphoto]

jj's right. If a person can reasonably be seen by the public, a model release is not needed. I believe the guy that made the "Girl's gone wild" flashing his camera won the suit, but at what cost. If your photos start making money put some aside for legal fees.

[Steven Barall]

Hello,
You don't need model releases for books or shows, just be careful of the captions. You can't sell the photos for advertising though. No questions about this stuff though should stop you from photographing at the event. Deal with problems later on.

[Terence Spross]

If you are going to wear a press pass make sure it doesn't represent affiation with a publication that you are not going to do business with - that would be dishonest. But I don't see a problem with it if you are truely going to sell your photos. Credentials help the police discern your independedence with either side if things go down wrong especially if you are using a small format that just about anyone might use.

Since this is the LF forum you will probalby be using LF gear and protecting your LF gear may be an issue and a press credential may also get you access to a nearby rooftop or something for a better view.

Improper use of press credentials usually have to do with celebrity type affairs, not demonstrations.

If you are on one side of the issue and view the other side as the "enemy" don't wear a press ID.

That's true even if your photos are going to be published in your causes newsletter.

[John_4185]

Terence Credentials help the police discern your independedence with either side if things go down wrong

What planet do you live on? You can't go making up press credential, or even have them legitimately and expect to be immune from harm from either side or the cops. And it has nothing to do with your intent to sell the photographs. Nothing whatsoever, except in Mayberry on an Easter Sunday egg-hunt dispute.

If I saw some poseur with fake credentials, I'd probably kick his ass. Then take pictures.

[John Kasaian]

jj:

Why is it a fantasy and stupid idea? I've found that credentials can sometimes get me into places I would otherwise not have access to, such as:

1) A tennis industry trade show (complete with pro tennis players) in Las Vagas,

2) One of the largest book trade fairs in the world held in Frankfurt, Germany

5) One very tragic plane wreck in the Sierra Nevada mountains.

6) The crime scene of a double homicide

7) An archive of circa 1880 "evidence" photographs.

8) A motorcross where I was allowed on the infield.

9) The inaugural Shakespeare Festival in a small California town where William Shatner was the guest of honor.

10) A rather boring week long evening of interviews with a retired gentlemen who provided the laundry serivices to a "hush-hush" navy submarine base during WW2 (!?!) but believe it or not, there was a story involved.

11)Access to some Arab monarch's fancy yacht(I can't remember the guy's name---sorry) but I didn't take 'em up on the offer.

12)Access to an antique boat at Mystic Seaport, where I was allowed to stay aboard, by myself for most of the day to photograph the interior cabinetry and details of a Friendship Sloop.

Of course there have been many more places where admittedly "Walter Mitty" credentials haven't been worth anything either, but I don't understand why the effort to obtain them is a "fantasy and stupid idea" It has made for some very memorable adventures for me, especially overseas.

FWIW my "credentials" were, for the most part as a stringer, and not a photographer.

Never underestimate the power of Krispy Kremes on the right desk, especially on the desk of an editor of a small publication with a limited budget that can't afford to send a reporter to cover events that may be interesting, but not real interesting to say, dairymen, flight instructors, vineyard growers, or the alumni of small colleges, etc...

[John_4185]

John, none of the events you mention were hostile confrontations between the public and LEOs.

Maybe the world outside of my experience has changed, but I doubt it.

Just don't go wading into a riot with a press badge from Good Housekeeping, Plow and Cow, Air America or Wine Tasters, LTD and expect anyone to care.

Anywho, best of luck, John. Maybe I should go into the basement for some pictures from my press daze, post 'em somewhere.

[Clayton Tume]

John

as most have said above it's a public place and you can do as you please.

I do this type of shooting because I like the challenge of getting as many faces as I can onto a single piece of film. So any crowd of 10000+ people you'll find me in the middle somewhere.

The images are used in publications and sold as prints, usually lots.

I developed specialised equipment for the job and the camera is always elevated.

Here's one with over 20000 in it...........on the print you can easily identify thousands.

http://www.bigshotz.co.nz/images/Hikoicolour150.jpg

have fun!

Clayton

[John Kasaian]

FWIW, my credentials in the past have always been legitimate, but were issued for limited times and often specifically to gain access to events which I had convinced the editor would be worth having me 'cover'

If you have a working relationship with a small publication I don't find that getting credentials of some sort all that hard to come by, and while a piece of paper certainly isn't a magic shield or a get out of jail free card, I find it can often open doors.

I am distressed that the editorial legitimacy of small "insignificant" publications with target audiences limited to tradesmen or fraternal organizations aren't "professional" enough for big shot photojournalists to deem as being anything but fraudulent poseurs, but that just goes to show why the news (especially overseas news) I get from a few carefully chosen blogs beats any of the inaccurate garbage the newspapers and networks seek to thrill the public with.

[John Kasaian]

OK, blood pressure down to almost normal.

Great photo, Clayton! Was that done with one of your Cirkut cameras? From what I've been told, a similar photo at this particular demonstration would look more like one of those 18th century Civil War battlefield dioramas(!)

I'll be in the company of at least one very large individual---former college defensive linebacker/rugby type turned fireman---who was the one who talked me into this adventure in the first place. While I am a devout coward I think I'll have a good chance of getting through this unscathed(except for spit, I was told the antis spit a lot)

No, I don't "need" press credentials, but I can get them if I want. If there will be any advantage, maybe it would be worth the effort, but realistically now I don't see how that would come into play---the demonstration will be in public. My friend's descriptions of the people particiapting on both sides is what I'm interested in---theres a certain feeling that He described that I'm familiar with and I'd like to see if I can capture it on film. This isn't about angry mobs looking as if someone's going to bust a neck artery. It is about something that I don't know how to describe (there probably isn't a word in the english language that can describe what I'm hoping to find) which is why it seems like using a camera might be the best way to "find" it. Maybe words and photographs--I don't exactly know, nor do I know what to do with it if I can get the photos as there will certainly be plenty of media coverage anyway(and now you know what I generally think of the Media)

Anyway, its hard enough for me to cancel a snow camping trip with my 5 year old son to attend, but there will be other trips and the lure of this paricular demonstration is unique enough to make me want to go and try for a definative "moment" type photograph.

Thanks for all the input!

Happy New Years!

[Ed Richards]

Clayton,

Bet the FBI loves those!:-)

This area has gotten complicated in the last decade. At one time it was clear you could take pictures of people in public places, as long as you were not putting them in a false light - a picture of guy just going to work who was portrayed as a protestor might be an issue. Some states have passed privacy laws that limit the use of photos taken in public places and use for things other than news. While the target is advertising, fine art is in limbo because the courts have not clearly said that fine art photography is a first amendment activity. At some point one of these state laws will make it to the Supreme Court and we will get some guidance.

[Roger Richards]

"I am distressed that the editorial legitimacy of small "insignificant" publications with target audiences limited to tradesmen or fraternal organizations aren't "professional" enough for big shot photojournalists to deem as being anything but fraudulent poseurs, but that just goes to show why the news (especially overseas news) I get from a few carefully chosen blogs beats any of the inaccurate garbage the newspapers and networks seek to thrill the public with...."Take it easy, John :-)

If you have any kind of legit press credentials, no matter how small the publication, then there is no problem. You need credentials for the authorities, for the police sergeant or supervisor cordoning off the area, not for anyone else. Even ucredentialed photographers are free to shoot in these situations...this is the USA, after all. Most so-called 'big shot photojournalists' do not give a hill of beans who you work for, as long as you know how to function in such highly-strung situations where a bit of experience on how to react if things go south can also help your colleagues.

Over the years I have been on the receiving end of rocks, bottles, bullets and police batons in many a country. Interestingly, the US cops have often been the worst toward photographers on scene. For instance, in Washington DC a few years ago during anti-IMF demos, I saw police officers not only beat photographers but also spray gas directly into their eyes. This happened to my friend Michael Williamson, a top Washington Post photographer who has won two Pulitzers and numerous other awards for his work, who was targeted by a DC cop who deliberately and with malicious glee sprayed Michael in his eyes. He did not see properly again for almost a year. If the cops get restless, get out of the area fast. You will get arrested or worse. I always carried a riot kit for these situations, with a bottle of water, some limes and a bandanna. If you get gassed the limes help counteract the burning of the chemical reaction on your skin.

Here are a couple of photos from demos

http://www.digitalrailroad.net/DVN/Frameset.aspx?bwid=373&cdsid=c006cf86-669f-40af-81c0-110bedd748e7&rcp=14

http://www.digitalrailroad.net/DVN/Frameset.aspx?bwid=373&cdsid=c006cf86-669f-40af-81c0-110bedd748e7&rcp=14

http://www.digitalrailroad.net/DVN/Frameset.aspx?bwid=144&cdsid=c006cf86-669f-40af-81c0-110bedd748e7&rcp=14

http://www.digitalrailroad.net/DVN/Frameset.aspx?bwid=762&cdsid=c006cf86-669f-40af-81c0-110bedd748e7&rcp=14

As for picture use, as a previous poster said, you do not need releases for an exhibition or a book as long as the images are not used for advertising or commercial use.

Good luck!

[Terence Spross]

[i]credentials help the police discern your independedence with either side if things go down wrong

What planet do you live on?[-i]

Admittedly, my only experience with outdoor crowds during a protest was a parade that was being escourted by NY State Troopers (who I believe are better trained than many local police) . Upon seeing my camera from a distance one trooper gestured me off to the side to where I would have a good perspective (as if he knew what I wanted) and gestured others in the street near me to another location wherre they weren't in my way. At the time I was just an amateur arriving on the scene unexpectedly and the tag around my neck was a security from a technical conference I had just attended that had nothing to do with photography . I had forgotten it was there but apparently I was treated as a pro by the trooper because of it. Thats when I learned that looking like press can get you places.

I would think a large measure of common sense should prevail in determining when you should back off. As previously stated: "[i]start to tap their batons against their shields[-i]" is a good time to use common sence.

I've seldom used any kind of tag ID, because I'm more of a landscape /wilderness or studio/ technical type of guy. But I have a tag that merely has my name/photo/ address and the words "freelance photographer" printed on it. That has been adequate for my needs.

[Terence Spross]

On another note: I have talked at length to a photojournalist who for his assignments practices "immersion jounalism" and tries to never show his credentials. Carries more that one digital camera, some of them are hidden, and takes pictures of everything everywhere and then lets someone else determine if they should be published or not. He also makes verbal notes into a digital sound recorder and "sometimes I just forget to turn it off and you would be amazed at what it picks up."

Talk about Legal concerns....

[Clayton Tume]

John and Ed

where I live in New Zealand we don't have the same freedom you guys in the "land of the free" have, so we basically do as we please if you get my drift. We aren't over regulated or spied on!

John I developed my system over a few years, no it's not a Cirkut camera but a modern very lightweight rotating camera that shoots 120/220 film. The neg frames are 12+ inches long. The secret to the system is a lightweight telescoping pole I use to get the camera above everyones heads. The camera is fired with a remote control.

When shooting I get into the middle of the crowd and can erect the pole while standing shoulder to shoulder with people all around.

I ignore all the press shooters and likewise they do the same with me. I do get strange looks though when the camera goes up. The camera doesn't look like anything you've seen so I think the looks are more curiosity.

Clayton

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah but you live in paradise so there is nothing to protest except the French nuclear tests and whatnot

[Dave Henry]

Happy New Year to everyone. I'd like to clarify a few terms used in this thread. A credential or "press pass" is issued by an event coordinator such as a trade show, sport event etc. This gives you certain access that the public doesn't have. The event people control who they give their pass to. In John's case, the media he would represent would need to apply to the event for a "press pass" for him. You can also apply to the same event as a freelance photographer. Access to their event is controlled by them and not the media.

The media doesn't issue press passes since they aren't running the show. The media issue company/employee ID's that identify you as an employee of their company. It alone doesn't get you in to anything unless the event coordinator wants to let you in. Try using a fake ID at a 49er game and you'll see what I mean. What you don't want to do as a fake is run into another photographer with real company ID. BIG trouble because that gives the photographer/company problems if you do something stupid. You'll always get turned in.

Certain organizations and places such as State Police, government buildings (capitols) etc. my issue a photo ID to you but is only designed to identify you to them. Again, it doesn't automatically guarantee you "pass" to their areas if they don't want you in there.

You don't need any ID to shoot a public event and there won't be an organization to apply to for one. As mentioned above, sometimes it is in your best interests to blend into the crowd. I used to work with Michael out here in California and know he would have acted professionally. Sometimes others see the media as the problem and the ID's around your neck make you a target. That is why you will usually see credentials on a breakaway chain and not something that resembles a shoelace. You don't want to give a potential enemy anything to grab on to. When you see a media photog with several ID's around their neck, they are ID's from their company and a few other organizations along with the date specific event-issued pass.

Never print a fake ID. It is illegal just like printing fake concert tickets. Event passes issued by event coordinators are so temporary to that event, you wouldn't have time to copy them. Most security personnel are used to the passes issued by the event sponsor. If you are trying to gain access with a fake ID to a government press conference or something similar, know that the police are used to seeing the ID issued by a specific paper or TV station and usually recognize the photographer. Some photographers cover "beats" like a state capitol or regular team sport. Samples of all media issued ID's are on file with law enforcement so they can be familiar with them. If yours is a fake, you are asking for trouble. In the mind of law enforcement, if you need a fake ID to gain access to something, you must be up to no good. Remember, terrorists have fake ID's and that is what police see.

[John_4185]

The media doesn't issue press passes since they aren't running the show.

From the late sixties and on I worked in Chicago and environs as a press photographer. The City created and regulated press passes. Sometimes the passes helped, sometimes they did not.

I'm not sure who "runs" a public protest, or riot. :)

[Mike Cockerham]

Having worked for a local paper I know that they do issue "press creditinals" these will get into secure police locations I.e.accident scenes, weather related, and other news worthy events that occur in public locations so the authorities can identify those who belong there and the sight seers. These credintals are also used to secure "press passes" for events that are in private locations I.e. hotair ballon races, hill climbs, sporting events. Most of these locations will not issue you a pass if you do not represent a specific organization.

Thanks

Mike

[Dave Henry]

To clarify again, photogs are issued Press ID's by their employers and sometimes other entities such as law enforcement. Anyone can call them a pass if they want to but they don't guarantee access anywhere that people who are in control of an event want you to be. They are simply ID's. Media credentials (passes) are issued by organizations to such events as political conventions, sport events, trade shows etc. Usually these passes need to be applied for in advance by the news organization because event organizers want to control the number of people attending from any one media company. There may be limited floor space etc. That's sometimes why organizations "pool" their photogs.

Most pro sport teams for example, issue two photo credentials per outlet. It is up to the paper to assign their two "passes" each week among their staff. Your media ID is usually required for secure events to match with your name on their list when you arrive to pick up your pass.

Once again, your media ID doesn't automatically get you into anything. Over the years, I've had police, Secret Service etc. say "I don't care who you're with, you ain't goin' in". It's their call. I've had events where the public had better visibility or access than the media who were confined to a paddock etc.

Since 9/11 I've heard that a lot of municipalities etc. have stopped issuing press ID's because nobody wants to be responsible for counterfeit or fraudulently issued ID's. Here in Calif. the Cal Hwy Patrol (state police) stopped issuing them last year.

My main point was that counterfeit or fake ID's or press/event passes are wrong and illegal. It will only take one bad incident from a fake ID'd person to jeopardize our relationship with authorities.