Use of Tripods on NYC street

[Songyun]

I have been taking some photos in the past a few weeks, when the street is quite empty. At a few places I was told that I can not set up tripod on the property, like in front of Vessel in Hudson yards, which I understand. I tried to set up tripod this morning on the sidewalk of 5th Ave between 49th and 50th. I was told by a security guard of Rockefeller center that the sidewalk is part of Rock center's property, no tripods are allowed. Is that true?

[Tin Can]

More than likely, I had the same problem in Chicago

[Songyun]

More than likely, I had the same problem in Chicago

The guard told me to set up tripod across the avenue (on the east side of the avenue), which is public. I don't know how to determine which sidewalk is public, which is private.

[Tin Can]

You need NYC advice

I got my shot later when I was faster

[Pieter]

Sometimes there is a plaque in the pavement or on the building stating that it is private property.

[Robert Tilden]

I was involved in a large format class in Chicago a few years ago. We were set up on a LaSalle St. sidewalk to take pictures of an old 'El' station that was visible across an empty parking lot. A pleasant fellow in tactical togs and a shotgun told us we couldn't shoot across the parking lot. Turned out the parking lot belonged to the Chicago Federal Reserve. He said we could refuse to move but then he'd call the CPD and it probably wouldn't be resolved in our favor. We moved.

[LabRat]

Steve's rule is "Shoot before they throw you out"...

Do research, plan your shoot, and shoot your plan...

Steve K

[Willie]

Can you take a 4 legged slide projector table and use that? With four legs it is not a tripod. ;-)

[Duolab123]

I was involved in a large format class in Chicago a few years ago. We were set up on a LaSalle St. sidewalk to take pictures of an old 'El' station that was visible across an empty parking lot. A pleasant fellow in tactical togs and a shotgun told us we couldn't shoot across the parking lot. Turned out the parking lot belonged to the Chicago Federal Reserve. He said we could refuse to move but then he'd call the CPD and it probably wouldn't be resolved in our favor. We moved.

That's absurd. You should have said "oh we aren't taking pictures, just trying to distract security!" ;)

[Jeff Conrad]

Rules for City property are given by the Rules of the City of New York (https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCrules/0-0-0-1), Title 43, §§ 9.01–9.03. It’s hardly a stellar example of legal drafting, but it was far worse before it was revised following widespread outcry when it was first proposed in 2006. I haven’t been to NYC in many years, so I don’t know how it works in practice.

[Bob Salomon]

Can you take a 4 legged slide projector table and use that? With four legs it is not a tripod. ;-)

Then take the Novoflex Quadropod. All versions have 4 legs but can be used with 2. One version can also be used with 3.

[Pieter]

I doubt they care how many legs if you're on private property.

[reddesert]

Security guards often behave as if they own not only the ground, but also the air, as in Robert Tilden's story of forbidding taking a picture across a parking lot. They will probably stake claim over water and fire next.

I have no knowledge of who owns the sidewalk outside Rockefeller Center, but in New York, sidewalk ownership is often marked by bronze plaques set in the sidewalk to delimit the property line for liability and rights-assertion reasons. Sometimes they are L shaped at a corner. If you look around you can see them all over the place. https://untappedcities.com/2020/01/08/the-property-line-markers-in-nyc-sidewalks-offer-crossing-only-by-permission/

[LabRat]

I doubt they care how many legs if you're on private property.

Their biggest problem is with the interloper with 2 legs...

Steve K

[Alan Klein]

List of regulations regarding taking pictures in NYC by site.
https://411newyork.org/guide/2008/09/11/camera-restrictions-in-new-york/#:~:text=The%20use%20of%20tripods%20are%20not%20permitted%20at%20Rockefeller%20Center,consent%20of%20either%20RCPI%20Landmark

[Paul Ron]

ive been busted a few times for using a tripod... its not illegal but you may get a ticket for blocking egress. most times the cops will just shoo you along. argue your rights n then you can tell it to a judge, thats ticket time.

the general rule is if you can see it from public property, its fair game to be photographed. there are a few exceptions n trust me, they will bring it to your attension.

parks under conservency care have their own rules. check the park department or the conserveany itself.

ive also been tossed out of a few public buildings only because they said i looked professional. argue your rights n tell it to a judge when you go appear with your ticket for not obeying the direction of an officer.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/mome/permits/when-permit-required.page

[Duolab123]

I understand that there are places where tripods are an issue. That being said a cell phone on a sidewalk, probably isn't going to bring a guard with a shotgun. A snapshot with a 60 megapixel optically stabilized Sony camera of the air over the Fed parking lot, go home and make a 11 X14 negative with a inkjet :o

[Pieter]

I only wish they'd prohibit selfie sticks.

[popdoc]

This trick has worked for many of us- look like a surveyor.

Place reflective tape on each of the tripod legs, wear a reflective safety vest and a hard hat, and make up some sort of a photo ID to hang around your neck.

No one has ever bothered me since I’ve put that getup together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duolab123]

This trick has worked for many of us- look like a surveyor.

Place reflective tape on each of the tripod legs, wear a reflective safety vest and a hard hat, and make up some sort of a photo ID to hang around your neck.

No one has ever bothered me since I’ve put that getup together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Genius!

[Tin Can]

I always have a visible white hardhat, yellow safety vest and big orange cones in my white F150 and drive real slow in some areas...

Many workers straighten up when I cruise by, as the thing looks like a supervisor truck.

Reflective tape on tripod legs is a good idea!

I am adding fake fleet #'s and TIN CAN COLLEGE in small print.

My last truck with TIN CAN COLLEGE on it, got me a verbal cross examination going in to Canada. Business is examined at borders.

[Paul Ron]

you guys are too funny. the only problem with diguises in nyc comes when the nypd terrorist patrols ask for id n permits, you are then shipped off to gitmo for water boarding n interogation. fake id?


best bet is shoot n run!

[Tin Can]

been to NYC twice, 1964 World Fair was fun and 1978 when it was scary, my host experienced a murder in his car, when a pimp chased a hooker into it, no connections, he got the car back and later burned it...

never again...no more big cities for me

[Paul Ron]

ah the wolrd fair... that was spectacular. its a shame nyc is letting the few structures rot. there is a small grass roots organization trying to keep the park up. nyc would love to sell it off for development.

WAAAAAA? MURDER???, PIMPS???? OMG!
no wonder you went into hiding.

maybe try another visit? its not all that bad.

[Dave Wooten]

64 flushing Meadows world's fair!
Loved it , played trumpet there! I was 17 yrs old...!

[Tin Can]

Stayed in Rockaway which reminded me of Rogers Park Chicago

Lived decades in Chicago, dodging muggers, shooters, killers and worse. Even got attacked on my motorbike by 2 hookers blocks from where I lived. They tried dragging me off it, I let the clutch out quickly. Another one I knew well, I would let Purple in at 5 am after a night of work to hide from her pimp and the Police. We told each other stories past dawn, then she slipped away. No we didn't.

Now I won't even go to a city.

I have posted this before, shot by me with Kodak 126

https://live.staticflickr.com/814/25961846967_54430e3ae0.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FyafBa)1964 Mustang Worlds Fair (https://flic.kr/p/FyafBa) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr




ah the wolrd fair... that was spectacular. its a shame nyc is letting the few structures rot. there is a small grass roots organization trying to keep the park up. nyc would love to sell it off for development.

WAAAAAA? MURDER???, PIMPS???? OMG!
no wonder you went into hiding.

maybe try another visit? its not all that bad.

[Two23]

maybe try another visit? its not all that bad.


It would have to be after De Blasio is long gone.


Kent in SD

[Bob Salomon]

Stayed in Rockaway which reminded me of Rogers Park Chicago

Lived decades in Chicago, dodging muggers, shooters, killers and worse. Even got attacked on my motorbike by 2 hookers blocks from where I lived. They tried dragging me off it, I let the clutch out quickly. Another one I knew well, I would let Purple in at 5 am after a night of work to hide from her pimp and the Police. We told each other stories past dawn, then she slipped away. No we didn't.

Now I won't even go to a city.

I have posted this before, shot by me with Kodak 126

https://live.staticflickr.com/814/25961846967_54430e3ae0.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FyafBa)1964 Mustang Worlds Fair (https://flic.kr/p/FyafBa) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

One year at Photokina in Cologne I was walking back from the show to the hotel, a few blocks away, in Deutz. Halfway back a Gypsy woman with two kids approached me. She had an opened newspaper in her hand and, as we approached, the two kids got behind me and the woman started waving the paper in front of me while one kid tried to grab my briefcase.
We struggled a bit and I finally punched her with my free hand.
They took off and reported it to the hotel owner at the front desk.
He reported it but nothing came of it.
We had stayed at that same hotel every other year for Photokina for more then two decades and never had anything like that happen before or after that one incident.
Anything can happen in any city!
And we frequently walked the streets of old town Köln and Deutz very late at night. Including walking across the RR bridge after midnight.

[Tin Can]

Bob, I can always find trouble

and have in EU, Canada, Mexico and USA

I also have 100's of stories about struggle, strive and trouble, I was a salesman too...

I find every human has a story if we listen

but my Gypsy stories are mostly one way, they tend to be quick and private




One year at Photokina in Cologne I was walking back from the show to the hotel, a few blocks away, in Deutz. Halfway back a Gypsy woman with two kids approached me. She had an opened newspaper in her hand and, as we approached, the two kids got behind me and the woman started waving the paper in front of me while one kid tried to grab my briefcase.
We struggled a bit and I finally punched her with my free hand.
They took off and reported it to the hotel owner at the front desk.
He reported it but nothing came of it.
We had stayed at that same hotel every other year for Photokina for more then two decades and never had anything like that happen before or after that one incident.
Anything can happen in any city!
And we frequently walked the streets of old town Köln and Deutz very late at night. Including walking across the RR bridge after midnight.

[Duolab123]

I had a nice looking woman come up to me when I was in Chicago 30 years ago. She asked me if I knew where she could get a drink? I swear I didn't have a clue, so like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory I pointed down the street to a pub, ha! Then she said something like do you want to buy me a drink?, finally dawned on me. I stuttered no thanks and ran back to my room.
I still laugh when I think about that. I'm a lummox from all appearances, probably never looked like a good target.

Koln, I remember drinking cold lager beer in a jazz club down not to far from the Dom. The glasses calibrated in centaliters. CL.

[Paul Ron]

This is where the men in black was filmed....

[Bob Salomon]

I had a nice looking woman come up to me when I was in Chicago 30 years ago. She asked me if I knew where she could get a drink? I swear I didn't have a clue, so like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory I pointed down the street to a pub, ha! Then she said something like do you want to buy me a drink?, finally dawned on me. I stuttered no thanks and ran back to my room.
I still laugh when I think about that. I'm a lummox from all appearances, probably never looked like a good target.

Koln, I remember drinking cold lager beer in a jazz club down not to far from the Dom. The glasses calibrated in centaliters. CL.

I was staying at the Conrad Hilton one year when PMA was still held there.
We had had a very late night after a party in the company suite and I was groggily making my way back to my room.
At one end of the hall there was a coke machine so I stopped to buy one. I had my case in my left hand and change in my right hand. I put the change in, pushed the button and while the Coke came down into the chute a female hand suddenly reached between my legs to grab it. Never did learn her name!

[giganova]

Try setting up a tripod in Washington, DC, total nightmare: there is Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police, Park Police, Secret Service, Military Police, the list goes on & on. Each square inch of the city falls under the jurisdiction of one of them, and none allow tripods.

[Alan Klein]

Try setting up a tripod in Washington, DC, total nightmare: there is Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police, Park Police, Secret Service, Military Police, the list goes on & on. Each square inch of the city falls under the jurisdiction of one of them, and none allow tripods.

Carry a demonstration sign like you're marching and no one will bother you. :)

[Jeff Conrad]

Carry a demonstration sign like you're marching and no one will bother you. :)

Except for flash-bangs, tear gas, and rubber bullets ...

At least in some of these jurisdictions, there is little authority for prohibiting tripods. Areas under the jurisdiction of the US Park Police are covered by 43 CFR § 5.2, which requires a permit for still photography that uses a model, set, or prop, subject to the definitions in 43 CFR § 5.12. Specific areas may restrict certain things such as tripods, but there is no general prohibition or permit requirement.

The National Capital Region of the National Park System has special regulations. In the past, the NPS and US Park Police have used 36 CFR 7.96(g) to require permits for some photography, considering it a “demonstration” “which is reasonably likely to draw a crowd or onlookers.” This would now be on shaky legal grounds because a nearly identical provision in the Traffic Regulations for the United States Capitol Grounds was voided for vagueness and its enforcement enjoined in Lederman v. US (DC Cir. 2002). Nonetheless, this provision was used to illegally arrest activist Cindy Sheehan for wearing a “protest” T-shirt at the State of the Union Address in 2006 (the law’s application to T-shirts had actually been barred by an earlier decision). The charges were quickly dropped, and the Capitol Police apologized, claiming a “good-faith” misinterpretation (ignorance of settled law is not an excuse, but of course no one was held accountable).

The US Capitol grounds are under the jurisdiction of the US Capitol Police. The Traffic Regulations, including the definition of “demonstration,” have since been revised; the only mention of tripods is in § 16.13, which requires a permit for a tripod used for “commercial photography.” Shades of what we thought we had eliminated ... that actually was only for the Department of Agriculture and the Department of the Interior.

I haven’t been to DC in many years, so I can’t comment on what actually happens. But anyone who hasn’t slept through the last few months can see that the law seldom cramps the style of law enforcement agencies.

[Audii-Dudii]

One solution I've found that works very, very well for me when photographing street scenes in NYC is to do so late at night.

Although it's been more than a half-dozen years since my last visit, no one has ever bothered me about where I place my camera / tripod combo when it's after midnight or before 5:00 am. :)

I was, however, hassled on two separate occasions by the Park Police when I was spotted carrying my tripod / camera combo over my shoulder as I walked across the Harlem River Lift Span bridge at 125th Street to Randall's Island.

On both occasions, I was on the sidewalk on the south side of the bridge. At the beginning of the sidewalk on the west side and partially hidden by vegetation, there is (was?) a sign that said either "cameras prohibited on bridge" or "cameras not allowed on bridge" (I forget which).

I took this to mean that photographing from the bridge wasn't allowed, so I didn't.

According to the Park Police, though, the sign literally meant that cameras were not allowed on the bridge, period.

I argued with the cop about this for a bit, asking whether this prohibition included cellphones with cameras that were being carried inside a jacket pocket or cameras being carried in unlabeled boxes inside a UPS truck or in a camera bag inside the trunk of a car and he said it did -- "no cameras means no cameras!" he explained firmly -- although when I questioned him further about this, he did admit the regulation would be difficult to enforce in some situations.

He had his ticket book in hand and was ready to write me a ticket, but after I handed him my I.D., he realized I was from out-of-state and decided to let me go with just a warning. "I don't want to ruin your vacation," he said, mildly apologetically.

The second time occurred a few hours later, as I was walking back across the bridge from Randall's Island to Manhattan. I explained to the second Park cop that 1) There was no warning sign posted anywhere that I saw, so how would anyone know this was prohibited? and 2) I had been stopped by another cop earlier, but I had no choice but to cross the bridge with my tripod / camera a second time since it was the only way I knew to return to Manhattan. Fortunately, he likewise let me go with just a warning...

[Tin Can]

Right after 9/11/2001

Many places were banned for imaging with anything

including bridges

The Bridge Over The River Kwai: The Real Story (https://travelhappy.info/thailand/the-bridge-over-the-river-kwai-the-real-story/)

[Alan Klein]

One solution I've found that works very, very well for me when photographing street scenes in NYC is to do so late at night.

Although it's been more than a half-dozen years since my last visit, no one has ever bothered me about where I place my camera / tripod combo when it's after midnight or before 5:00 am. :)

I was, however, hassled on two separate occasions by the Park Police when I was spotted carrying my tripod / camera combo over my shoulder as I walked across the Harlem River Lift Span bridge at 125th Street to Randall's Island.

On both occasions, I was on the sidewalk on the south side of the bridge. At the beginning of the sidewalk on the west side and partially hidden by vegetation, there is (was?) a sign that said either "cameras prohibited on bridge" or "cameras not allowed on bridge" (I forget which).

I took this to mean that photographing from the bridge wasn't allowed, so I didn't.

According to the Park Police, though, the sign literally meant that cameras were not allowed on the bridge, period.

I argued with the cop about this for a bit, asking whether this prohibition included cellphones with cameras that were being carried inside a jacket pocket or cameras being carried in unlabeled boxes inside a UPS truck or in a camera bag inside the trunk of a car and he said it did -- "no cameras means no cameras!" he explained firmly -- although when I questioned him further about this, he did admit the regulation would be difficult to enforce in some situations.

He had his ticket book in hand and was ready to write me a ticket, but after I handed him my I.D., he realized I was from out-of-state and decided to let me go with just a warning. "I don't want to ruin your vacation," he said, mildly apologetically.

The second time occurred a few hours later, as I was walking back across the bridge from Randall's Island to Manhattan. I explained to the second Park cop that 1) There was no warning sign posted anywhere that I saw, so how would anyone know this was prohibited? and 2) I had been stopped by another cop earlier, but I had no choice but to cross the bridge with my tripod / camera a second time since it was the only way I knew to return to Manhattan. Fortunately, he likewise let me go with just a warning...
I'm sure he was happy he didn't have to write up a report about a dead body he found on that bridge or in the Harlem River below, an area called Hell's Gate. It's not in the safest of neighborhoods especially during the times you were there at night. :rolleyes:

[Jeff Conrad]

although when I questioned him further about this, he did admit the regulation would be difficult to enforce in some situations.

I suspect the “regulation” would be difficult to enforce in some situations because there probably is no regulation. Ditto for the “bans” on photography of bridges. There were many stories—some of them told here—about such things in the years after 9/11. But not once did I ever see a citation of authority for any of these bans; a sign does not carry the force of law.

Many folks here have had similar experiences with NPS and FS rangers who insisted that permits were required for “commercial” photography, when that never has been the case.

If one is to believe the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/politics/park-police-gregory-monahan.html), the Park Police aren’t the most upstanding law enforcement agency. I’ve had only limited contact with them in San Francisco, but my impressions were consistent with this article: they were not nice people.

That said, a gun and a badge usually beats four aces. And often the law.

[Bob Salomon]

“. . . That said, a gun and a badge usually beats four aces. And often the law. . . .”

Tell that to Wild Bill Hickok!

[BrianShaw]

“. . . That said, a gun and a badge usually beats four aces. And often the law. . . .”

Tell that to Wild Bill Hickok!

Hickock was holding two pair, black aces and eights. If he had 4 aces he might have survived his assassination.

[Bob Salomon]

Hickock was holding two pair, black aces and eights. If he had 4 aces he might have survived his assassination.

But he did have the gun and the badge.

[BrianShaw]

But he did have the gun and the badge.

I know he had a gun, Smith and Wesson, but I didn’t see a badge. Are you sure? I thought he gave up being a lawman that late in his life.! His only real mistake was thinking an angry drunk was harmless and sitting with his back to the door when he clearly knew better than that. I was there but it was a long time ago.

But what this has to do with tripods or NY, IDK. But it’s a fun chat. :)

[Jeff Conrad]

But what this has to do with tripods or NY, IDK. :)
Everyone knows—or reasonably should know—that a Smith and Wesson beats four aces. Or the Rules of the City of New York. Or the United States Code. Or the Code of Federal Regulations. Sad!

[LabRat]

But back to Gotham city, Sunday mornings were really dead in NYC (when I lived there), so probably best time to try your wings there... (Wall St. was empty)...

As long as you don't block sidewalks or venture onto private property, you might be just fine...

Steve K

[BrianShaw]

But back to Gotham city, Sunday mornings were really dead in NYC (when I lived there), so probably best time to try your wings there... (Wall St. was empty)...

As long as you don't block sidewalks or venture onto private property, you might be just fine...

Steve K

That’s consistent with my experience with the DC Capital Police. They looked at me with binoculars, waved, and moved behind a pillar. As I finished up they looked again. No fuss. But it was early in the morning and it was basic just me and them. Private security seems to often be more aggressive.

[Audii-Dudii]

I'm sure he was happy he didn't have to write up a report about a dead body he found on that bridge or in the Harlem River below, an area called Hell's Gate. It's not in the safest of neighborhoods especially during the times you were there at night. :rolleyes:

Back then, I frequently traveled to NYC for work and thanks to the generosity of a coworker and her husband, I was able to stay free of charge in the penthouse condo they owned that was located on 110th Street, between First and Second Ave. They kept it for those times when they visited family and friends or her husband was in town on business. (They also maintained apartments and condos in Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, London, and Singapore because the husband often traveled to those cities on business as well and hated to stay in hotels. Yes, they were quite well off.)

Whenever my schedule allowed, I would piggyback a day or two of vacation to the end of my business trips and use them to explore / photograph the city.

Because of its proximity, I photographed all over Harlem late at night / early in the morning and only once was I ever physically threatened. That said, when I photographed during the day, I was frequently yelled at by people for taking their photo, but they were only blustering, so it didn't bother me much.

The only time I was physically threatened, I was photographing down the street from a social club around 2:00 am on a Saturday morning and caught the attention of the crowd as they were leaving the club because it had closed.

Here in Phoenix, I will usually stand my ground when people tell me I can't take street scene photos because it's illegal, but when 20-30 amped-up and/or inebriated young men object and then start to circle me, I am wise enough to beat feet and quickly retreat, which I did without any further incident.

(Of course, here in Phoenix, I'm usually prepared to defend myself in the event I'm threatened, which isn't an option in NYC, so that is also a factor in my willingness to stand my ground here.)

I don't recall ever being hassled by the NYC PD, but I was regularly hassled by security guards and doormen who claimed the property where they worked extended all the way to the street, which was BS 99 times out of 100 and they knew it (because I told them to call the police if they must and I would wait until they arrived so I could explain my side of the situation and they never did.)

I was, however, hassled regularly by the Park police, including one time when I was photographing the RFK and Hell's Gate bridges from the empty soccer fields on Ward's Island using an infrared camera, which they viewed as highly suspicious because they thought only a spy or a terrorist would use a specially modified camera like mine. <rolls eyes>

I usually don't talk to the police -- I am a paralegal, after all, and know better than to do so -- but they were skeptical of my explanation that I was taking photos on what, to them, was not a very photogenic day, when I stupidly mentioned I was photographing with an infrared camera and things looked very different than they did with visible light ... oops!

I ended up being detained -- but not arrested -- for more than an hour while they investigated me to determine whether I was a threat or not. Which sucked, because the weather and light really were absolutely perfect and they would not let me continue to photograph while I waited for them to complete their investigation.

My last visit was in May 2015 -- in fact, that's when the incident on the bridge occurred -- because my friends sold their condo and I had quit my job in 2013, so I would have to pay for both my airfare and my housing if I visit again, which is much too spendy for me now that I'm semi-retired. :(

[Jeff Conrad]

As long as you don't block sidewalks
This gets at one of the more sensible provisions of NYC’s rules: § 9.01(b)(1)(ii), which requires a permit for photography that involves the assertion of exclusive use of more than one-half of a sidewalk, or when the sidewalk is narrower than 16 feet, exclusive use that leaves less than eight feet available for pedestrian use. One might quibble that the latter condition is excessive in an area where there’s little foot traffic, but the overall thrust is that you need a permit if you’re going to interfere with use of the sidewalk by other people. Seems reasonable enough to me.

[Jeff Conrad]

using an infrared camera, which they viewed as highly suspicious because they thought only a spy or a terrorist would use a specially modified camera like mine.
As Mrs. Iselin said to the senator, “Dear, you’re good at a great many things, but thinking just isn’t one of them.”

The Washington Post recently suggested (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-park-polices-reputation-is-in-tatters/2020/06/17/cd427e00-b0b6-11ea-856d-5054296735e5_story.html) that the Park Police’s reputation is in tatters; I’m not sure it ever was otherwise.

[Songyun]

wow, lots of good stories. A couple of weeks ago I was wandering around in the city, where I saw the heavily guarded Saks 5th ave store. I took this photo with my Chamonix Saber. When I came back with my tripods and wider lens set up, the security guard at Rock center told me that I can not set up the tripods on the sidewalk next to the Rock center.
205168

[Jeff Conrad]

the security guard at Rock center told me that I can not set up the tripods on the sidewalk next to the Rock center.

So did you ask him why not?

[Songyun]

So did you ask him why not?
He said that side of the sidewalk is Rock center’s property.

[Jeff Conrad]

He said that side of the sidewalk is Rock center’s property.
Somebody in City government ought to be able to answer this, or at the very least confirm or deny that it’s possible. I’d trust a typical security guard as far as I could throw him. Depending on the mood I was in—and how big he was—I might ask “Says who?” But there sometimes are strange situations, and if you really don’t know the answer, you’ve got to ask yourself one question ...

[Alan Klein]

wow, lots of good stories. A couple of weeks ago I was wandering around in the city, where I saw the heavily guarded Saks 5th ave store. I took this photo with my Chamonix Saber. When I came back with my tripods and wider lens set up, the security guard at Rock center told me that I can not set up the tripods on the sidewalk next to the Rock center.
205168

You should have told him Nelson Rockefeller is your grandfather.

[LabRat]

You should have told him Nelson Rockefeller is your grandfather.

Tell him you just bought the place and want pictures!!! ;-)

Steve K

[Jeff Conrad]

You should have told him Nelson Rockefeller is your grandfather.
I’ve heard of people staring quizzically at a security guard and saying something like “You really don’t know who I am, do you?” Sometimes it actually works. One advantage is that there is no false personation. Never tried it myself ...

[LabRat]

I’ve heard of people staring quizzically at a security guard and saying something like “You really don’t know who I am, do you?” Sometimes it actually works. One advantage is that there is no false personation. Never tried it myself ...

Could very well be...

Another thing that worked (by accident) was getting stopped while driving around the back of LAX once, that I was pulled over by a motorcycle cop over a taillight out... The cop takes off his helmet, and I looked stunned and amazed at him 'cuz he looked like a double to another guy I knew... He saw me looking strangely at him, maybe thinking I recognized him from school or something, and he got very nervous and spattered out "get your taillight fixed, and quickly jumped on his bike and took off...

Thought maybe I can use that routine someday??? ;-)

Steve K

[chschulz]

I haven't seen it mentioned here yet - back when I lived in NYC in 2007 you could simply get a "film & photography permit" from the Mayors office. It's the same the big movie productions use but everyone could get one for no fee. I got these very official looking letters on several occasions, i.e. when setting up a tripod in front of the Metropolitian Museum, Lincoln Center or during the night. I was stopped by security guards or cops all the time but after showing my permit everything was fine and people were generally friendly and supportive - they are just doing their jobs.


I was told by a security guard of Rockefeller center that the sidewalk is part of Rock center's property, no tripods are allowed. Is that true?



Gesendet von meinem SM-G973F mit Tapatalk

[Tin Can]

Downtown Chicago Spring 2001 Chicago Film Office Permits were $25. I secured three 3-day weekends, which allowed me to post NO PARKING signs, evidently no time limits!

The City gave me large no parking signs, which I still have and a permit without a year date

I also was granted towing privages IF I hired an off duty CPD officer, which was a reasonable cost

But I didn't hire any as I got to location well before the zone was opened for weekend parking so didn't need towing or an officer as I simply blocked the the entire block with my Airstream, trucks, cars and put up signs

I was conducting video interviews about Student Loans from Graduating Grad students...How Will You Pay?

Everybody wants to get in an AirStream

[amanda9]

Somebody in City government ought to be able to answer this, or at the very least confirm or deny that it’s possible. I’d trust a typical security guard as far as I could throw him. Depending on the mood I was in—and how big he was—I might ask “Says who?” But there sometimes are strange situations, and if you really don’t know the answer, you’ve got to ask yourself one question ... spelling bee answers (https://spellingbeenyt.net/)

definitely important to get accurate information from the right sources. When dealing with city government inquiries, it's best to seek answers from officials who have the authority and expertise. Trusting a security guard might not always provide the most reliable information, so it's wise to verify through appropriate channels.

[Tin Can]

All know, the tiny Chicago sidewalk by the street is public

But the 30ft apron is private

and they will chase tripods away

ASAP

[Jeffrey Dionesotes]

In Chicago, since the 1968 convention and the subsequent "riots," city parks close at 11:00 PM and it's technically illegal to use a tripod on city sidewalks.

[Tin Can]

Very interesting work

over decades!!

Looks like you knew Barbara Crane

I have her custom 10X10 SALTZMAN

I am giving it away, needs work

Keep it interesting

Please!

[Jeff Conrad]

In Chicago ... it's technically illegal to use a tripod on city sidewalks.
Is there a citation to support this?

[Tin Can]

Chicago's Millennium Park

Banned tripods

Then we complained

Too many Weddings

Permits for any 'gathering'

no dogs

so I felt the very good lawn was

good for a naps!

[BrianShaw]

In my city, not NYC or ChiTown, there are limited to specific areas where photography is controlled. Examples are certain parks and private locations with public access where wedding photography is/was popular/rampant. Another example includes places like railroad depots and industrial sites where "national security" is invoked. Permit systems have been in place for years for commercial/wedding shoots and the definition they use for "commercial photograhy" often include items such as the use of lighting equipment, models, tripods, "professional cameras", and "cameras with interchangable lenses". Some mistakenly represent these situations as a ban on these items or a ban on photography but it's not quite the case. It may seem that way, though, when numbskull security/police challenges with a lack of understanding of either their rules or photogrphic equipment, or the notion that an hobbiest may actually use the same/similar equipment as a professional for amateur photography. Been in that conversation one too many times...

[Jeff Conrad]

Brian, I hear the same sort of stuff all the time, but the only law I can find is §22.350 (https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/los_angeles/latest/laac/0-0-0-50457) of the LA Administrative code, which requires a permit for “making any commercial motion picture, or still photograph,” without defining “commercial.” There once was an additional section (63.44 B(3)) of the LA Municipal Code that required a “contract” with the Recreation and Parks Department to “practice, carry on, conduct or solicit any trade, occupation, business, or profession,” but it’s been suspended since 2005—quite possibly because it was void for vagueness.

I haven’t taken many pictures in LA, and haven’t even been there in quite a while, so I can’t comment on what the numbskulls try to “enforce.”

[Paul Ron]

nyc has a photography law that can be looked up on the mayor site that will explain why you cant use tripods on city streets... impeads egress. if you want to use light stands n tripods or other equipment, you will need a permit.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/mome/permits/permits.page

.

[bdkphoto]

nyc has a photography law that can be looked up on the mayor site that will explain why you cant use tripods on city streets... impeads egress. if you want to use light stands n tripods or other equipment, you will need a permit.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/mome/permits/permits.page

.

Sorry not correct- from the rules, my bolded

"Generally, permits are not required for casual photographers, tourists or credentialed members of the media.

You do not need a film permit if you are (1) using a hand-held camera, a camera on tripod, hand-held props and/or hand-held equipment, (2) not asserting exclusive use of City property, (3) not using prop weapons, prop vehicles, stunts, actors in police uniform and (4) not requesting parking privileges for production vehicles."

I've been working professionally in this town for close to 30 years, and shoot with a tripod on the streets all the time. It has never been an issue - even with a small crew. Actually my experience with the NYPD has been positive- I have several stories of them volunteering to help me out by keeping folks from parking/stopping in from of a building I was photographing - just as friendly gesture. There are places in the city like Times Square, Bryant Park, Rock Center that will restrict the use of tripods (Rock center plaza is private property) Bryant Park is a public/private partnership, and TSQ is patrolled by security officers from the Times Sq business alliance to keep things from getting too out of hand. They will ask you not to set up a tripod if its very busy.

[Alan Klein]

Sorry not correct- from the rules, my bolded

"Generally, permits are not required for casual photographers, tourists or credentialed members of the media.

You do not need a film permit if you are (1) using a hand-held camera, a camera on tripod, hand-held props and/or hand-held equipment, (2) not asserting exclusive use of City property, (3) not using prop weapons, prop vehicles, stunts, actors in police uniform and (4) not requesting parking privileges for production vehicles."

I've been working professionally in this town for close to 30 years, and shoot with a tripod on the streets all the time. It has never been an issue - even with a small crew. Actually my experience with the NYPD has been positive- I have several stories of them volunteering to help me out by keeping folks from parking/stopping in from of a building I was photographing - just as friendly gesture. There are places in the city like Times Square, Bryant Park, Rock Center that will restrict the use of tripods (Rock center plaza is private property) Bryant Park is a public/private partnership, and TSQ is patrolled by security officers from the Times Sq business alliance to keep things from getting too out of hand. They will ask you not to set up a tripod if its very busy.

NYC is the Hollywood of the East. Besides major movie films in NYC, it produces many TV programs and movies for Netflix, Prime, and other online producers. The industry provides thousands of jobs, and billions in fees, spending by crews’ actors and crewmen, etc. Tourists flock to studios like Silvercup etc. Cops are friendly because the city knows what butters its bread. I was in Manhattan last week. I forgot what street I was on. But some studio was filming something and they had trailers parked from avenue to avenue on the north side. These are huge 18-wheelers containing dressing rooms food pantries for the crew, all the movie equipment needed, etc. NYC doesn’t want to chase anyone away because of heavy-handedness. So, the cops and government cooperate with the industry.

[Paul Ron]

if you are impeading egress on a sidewalk in nyc with a tripod you will be either asked to move or be ticketed.

now as far as legal in nyc... black out windshields, black out plates, driving smoking pot, no license no insurance, pan handeling, sleeping in streets, motor cycles n electric bikes on sidewalks, shop lifting, jumping turnstiles and an assorment of other crimes the cops are overlooking these days doesn't mean they are legal. yes it says camera on tripod is ok... but as ive been shooting nyc for most of my 72 years has taught me a few things like "yes sir" packing up my stuff n moving on or getting a ticket in Rockefeller center or bryant park or central park or the winter guarden n times square, the village, brooklyn, queens... its the blocking of the sidewalk that gets you in trouble... not the tripod. so roll the dice... then tell it to the judge.... what did the ticket say? tripod or impeading egress?... not following direction of an officer? try telling the cop you have rights!

[Corran]

Yes, keep letting the cops run all over your rights?

[Greg]

but as ive been shooting nyc for most of my 72 years has taught me a few things like "yes sir" packing up my stuff n moving on

For me the better part of 76 years. Saying "Yes Sir" and something like "Sorry, I didn't know" has always worked for me over the years. Adding something like "I'll pack up my things right away" and many times the cop told me to finish what i was doing and then move on. I've used florescent cones and a vest many times and was never even bothered... A few times the cop stood around and we talked till I was finished. If the cop is an amateur photographer, then you are golden. Many times in the 1970s I was doing street photography in NYC in the evening or night with a handheld 35mm camera, and was told to move on "or else". One time the cop demanded that I give him the film that was in the camera.... "no problem" and I gave him that roll of film.

[Jeff Conrad]

if you are impeading egress on a sidewalk in nyc with a tripod you will be either asked to move or be ticketed.


Yes, if you are impeding passage by blocking a sidewalk—as is made clear by the the MOME permit page that bdkphoto cited. I find this hard to argue with. The actual rule is given by Title 43, Chapter 9 (https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCrules/0-0-0-81461) of the Rules of the City of New York; it′s a bit of a tough read because it’s rather poorly written, but it’s infinitely better than what was originally proposed in 2007. I think common sense calls for a permit for the type of activity Alan Klein described—but what we’ve been talking about here is not that.

Whatever city you may be in, it’s usually better to politely ask why a permit is needed before getting too confrontational. If that goes nowhere, it may be reasonable to (politely) cite the governing law. Toward that end: if you think you might get approached and you’re up for asserting your, rights, it behooves you to learn the rules before venturing out, so that you don’t inadvertently break them. And always be mindful of Sam Rayburn’s sage advice: don’t ever talk until you know what you’re talking about.

If your recitation doesn’t work, you need to decide whether it’s time to hold ’em or to fold ’em. After a certain point, it’s dicey to argue with People with Guns; you might beat the rap, but you might not beat the ride.

[LabRat]

Most cities will have the regulations posted somewhere on their website... Find and make a paper copy to stash in your kit in case someone questions you about legality of what you are doing...

Another possible trouble scene is shooting at private property (such as a house, store, official buildings etc... Have the # of local police etc on hand if things start to get serious... I had asked the local police later what to do if off private property (like standing on city sidewalk) and facing "private" (fully visible) property and security or management is trying to get you outta there, and cop said to call them ASAP so they can explain to them it was legal to shoot from that city sidewalk...

After 9/11, it was touchy to shoot somewhere due to "security concerns", but seems to have relaxed quite a lot (me thinks it's more about "image control", where image might be used in a negative light without their narrative)...

Best solution is to "plan your shoot/shoot your plan" quietly/quickly, but relaxed so it seems like it's no big deal, but before you attract attention... And just leave before things get tense if confronted... (You can't argue with a stone)...

But I do a lot of urban work in LA, and very rarely have ANY issues...

Steve K

[bdkphoto]

Yes, if you are impeding passage by blocking a sidewalk—as is made clear by the the MOME permit page that bdkphoto cited. I find this hard to argue with. The actual rule is given by Title 43, Chapter 9 (https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCrules/0-0-0-81461) of the Rules of the City of New York; it′s a bit of a tough read because it’s rather poorly written, but it’s infinitely better than what was originally proposed in 2007. I think common sense calls for a permit for the type of activity Alan Klein described—but what we’ve been talking about here is not that.

Whatever city you may be in, it’s usually better to politely ask why a permit is needed before getting too confrontational. If that goes nowhere, it may be reasonable to (politely) cite the governing law. Toward that end: if you think you might get approached and you’re up for asserting your, rights, it behooves you to learn the rules before venturing out, so that you don’t inadvertently break them. And always be mindful of Sam Rayburn’s sage advice: don’t ever talk until you know what you’re talking about.

If your recitation doesn’t work, you need to decide whether it’s time to hold ’em or to fold ’em. After a certain point, it’s dicey to argue with People with Guns; you might beat the rap, but you might not beat the ride.

You seem to have a deep interest in rules and regulations ;-) I'm guessing you have a legal backround.

Simply setting up a tripod on the streets of NYC does not constitute impeding passage, as there is usually plenty of room to stay out of the way on the streets and the sidewalks and still work. I make my living photographing this city and its architecture - my book was released last June https://www.brucekatzphoto.com/gallery.html?gallery=Sky-High%3a+Supertalls+of+NYC&folio=Portfolios&vimeoUserID=&vimeoAlbumID=#/0 - literally hundreds of set-ups with a tripod on the streets over the 2.5 years it took to shoot the book, never mind all the other assignment work I do. I have had no issues with the NYPD or permitting - as I mentioned in an earlier post they actually helped out (unasked)in several instances - just being nice...The real issue for working on the streets is finding a clean unobstructed view - and the ever present delivery trucks that clunk up the shot. Patience works well in those cases.

I served on the board of directors of ASMP when NYC updated the permitting process 15+ years ago - we had our council help draft language to help make it more equitable for all involved to work in this city with a minimum of hassle. Most people do not understand the difference between the the governing agencies in NYC and their territories- There is the Mayor's Film Office for NYC streets, NYC parks for the parks, MTA for the subways, trains and buses, Port Authority for the bridges and tunnels, and the private property owners who can make their own rules. All of them have different rules for shooting on their property. Parks rules are similar to the Mayor's film office - if you want to shoot on a tripod 8x10 in Central Park it is allowed.

Places like Rockefeller Center and corporate office plazas are treated as private property and can restrict the use of tripods and photography on their property at their discretion, as the OP of this semi-zombie thread found out.

[Alan Klein]

You seem to have a deep interest in rules and regulations ;-) I'm guessing you have a legal backround.

Simply setting up a tripod on the streets of NYC does not constitute impeding passage, as there is usually plenty of room to stay out of the way on the streets and the sidewalks and still work. I make my living photographing this city and its architecture - my book was released last June https://www.brucekatzphoto.com/gallery.html?gallery=Sky-High%3a+Supertalls+of+NYC&folio=Portfolios&vimeoUserID=&vimeoAlbumID=#/0 - literally hundreds of set-ups with a tripod on the streets over the 2.5 years it took to shoot the book, never mind all the other assignment work I do. I have had no issues with the NYPD or permitting - as I mentioned in an earlier post they actually helped out (unasked)in several instances - just being nice...The real issue for working on the streets is finding a clean unobstructed view - and the ever present delivery trucks that clunk up the shot. Patience works well in those cases.

I served on the board of directors of ASMP when NYC updated the permitting process 15+ years ago - we had our council help draft language to help make it more equitable for all involved to work in this city with a minimum of hassle. Most people do not understand the difference between the the governing agencies in NYC and their territories- There is the Mayor's Film Office for NYC streets, NYC parks for the parks, MTA for the subways, trains and buses, Port Authority for the bridges and tunnels, and the private property owners who can make their own rules. All of them have different rules for shooting on their property. Parks rules are similar to the Mayor's film office - if you want to shoot on a tripod 8x10 in Central Park it is allowed.

Places like Rockefeller Center and corporate office plazas are treated as private property and can restrict the use of tripods and photography on their property at their discretion, as the OP of this semi-zombie thread found out.

Those are wonderful photos, Bruce. How do you arrange access from what seems to be restricted areas higher up in or on top of buildings?

[bdkphoto]

Those are wonderful photos, Bruce. How do you arrange access from what seems to be restricted areas higher up in or on top of buildings?

Thanks Alan, for the most part I was very fortunate to have some existing clients that either owned the buildings that we were shooting for the book, or had properties that had great views of the buildings I needed to shoot. A quick email and relevant insurance certificates and I was good to go. Other places took a lot of scouting, cold calls and months of time to arrange access, and a few never worked out. I always tried to have multiple options where possible.

[Alan Klein]

Thanks Alan, for the most part I was very fortunate to have some existing clients that either owned the buildings that we were shooting for the book, or had properties that had great views of the buildings I needed to shoot. A quick email and relevant insurance certificates and I was good to go. Other places took a lot of scouting, cold calls and months of time to arrange access, and a few never worked out. I always tried to have multiple options where possible.

It was too bad I wasn't into architectural photography when I ran a company years ago in NYC that serviced fire alarm systems in some of the key office buildings run by some of the key real estate owners and management firms.

[Jeff Conrad]

You seem to have a deep interest in rules and regulations ;-) I'm guessing you have a legal backround.
I’m a timid, law-abiding citizen. That said, following orders has never been one of my hobbies.


Most people do not understand the difference between the the governing agencies in NYC and their territories- There is the Mayor's Film Office for NYC streets, NYC parks for the parks, MTA for the subways, trains and buses, Port Authority for the bridges and tunnels, and the private property owners who can make their own rules. All of them have different rules for shooting on their property. Parks rules are similar to the Mayor's film office - if you want to shoot on a tripod 8x10 in Central Park it is allowed.
The same is true in many places. And finding the rules is often no small undertaking, as I mentioned in the article (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/photo-permits/) I did a while back. Rules sometimes lurk in unexpected places, and unless you know exactly where to look, the rules may be astonishingly hard to find. No one could seem to cite a law for restricting photography in LA until I somehow stumbled on the LA Administrative Code years ago. And unless I had known exactly where to look, I might never have found the photography rules for New York in the chapter for the mayor’s office. Unlike federal and state government, cities seldom have administrative rules. There are exceptions, such as for very large cities like New York. And sometimes even for much smaller cities, such as Palo Alto, California, which I never would have thought to consider. I was wrong ... For what it’s worth, they follow the old rules for National Parks that were covered by the former 36 CFR 5.5(b).


Places like Rockefeller Center and corporate office plazas are treated as private property and can restrict the use of tripods and photography on their property at their discretion, as the OP of this semi-zombie thread found out.
And rules for private property vary from place to place. For example, California does not criminalize trespass on private property open to the public. But individual jurisdictions are free to do so, subject to certain restrictions. Many jurisdictions have such restrictions in varying forms, but many do not. Again, you need to know the applicable laws in the place you’re planning to photograph. Not always an easy task.

As always, beware of what you know for sure that just ain’t so. You don’t want to end up like poor Algonquin J. Calhoun (https://youtu.be/nf-K4Jb-inQ?feature=shared&t=1252). And recall the outcome of the second time Inspector Callahan posed the question.