E-Bay and PayPal: What should I know?

[Drew Bedo]

I am looking at selling off some of my stuff. some is photo gear some is other stuff. This will not be an ongoing business with any serious volume, just personnel stuff.

I have put a few things on the For Sale forum here. Looks like e-bay is the venue for most of it. Seems like PayPal is the pay method of coice there.

What should I know about e-Bay and PayPal?

[BrianShaw]

They charge fees. Fees might be okay as the cost-of-doing-business but for small items might make it all not worth your while.

[drj52]

I am looking at selling off some of my stuff. some is photo gear some is other stuff. This will not be an ongoing business with any serious volume, just personnel stuff.

I have put a few things on the For Sale forum here. Looks like e-bay is the venue for most of it. Seems like PayPal is the pay method of coice there.

What should I know about e-Bay and PayPal?

Lots of things:

1) Use the Fixed Price format, with the "Immediate payment required" option, to avoid non-payers and scammers.
2) If a buyer says they're having trouble paying, and asks for your PayPal email address, they're trying to scam you.
3) Use signature confirmation on any sale where price+shipping is $750 or more.
4) Insurance is your option; the buyer doesn't need it, although you can charge them for it if you build it into the shipping charge.
5) If the buyer claims the item is "not as described", eBay will force you to take it back, pay for return shipping, and refund the buyer's full payment.
6) PayPal's fee, which is taken as soon as the payment is received, is 2.9% plus 30 cents.
7) eBay's fee, which you are billed for once a month, is 10% of the buyer's total payment, including the shipping charge.
8) Don't sell anything on eBay that you can't afford to lose.

[Dugan]

Ebay charges fees on the sale price of the item AND the shipping cost, so figure that into your cost.
They also collect sales tax automatically, and remit it so you don't have to...avoids a big headache for small-time sellers.
My thinking is that if it's not a $10 item or more, it's not really worth listing.
It can be fun making stuff go away, and watching your PayPal account grow, so you can get stuff you want/need.
The post previous to mine makes some good points.

[BrianShaw]

How does “2)” work? Recently I bought a BIN and couldn’t pay because eBay wouldn’t link to PayPal. This persisted for 2 days with multiple attempts per day. I contacted seller and explained and offered to direct PayPal it to him. He preferred I call and he manually processed the credit card. How could direct paying via PayPal be used fraudulently. I’m rather naive about fraud practices and always amazed at the diversity of options.

[goamules]

Back to selling on ebay. If you want to prevent "not as described" claims, I started putting "AS IS - For Parts - not guaranteed to work" for cameras. Sometimes I'd say "it was working fine when I listed it, but it's a 50 year old used piece of equipment, I cannot guarantee that after shipping it will still work the same.

For lenses, "AS IS - may have scratches, dust inside, handling marks on the body, stiff focus, oil on iris blades that I did not notice. The pictures will show the condition as well as my description" Or such.

Yes, you will get less people bidding, and less of a sale price. But when ebay buyers started hitting me for partial refund and "try after you buy - return" scams for 75% of my sales, I gave up on that. You will find out very quickly how many of the current generation and global buyers think they can get 90 day free return like for a mass produced item at a Walmart, from a small time individual selling 75 year old cameras. You will spend time dealing with that, getting your money sucked out of your bank by eBay to give to fraudulent scammers in Outer Mongolia, having to accept returns on YOUR dollar that shipping costs more than the item is worth, and more. Stand by for a wild ride in frustration. But it's the only show in town that will realistically get most of your things sold.

[Willie]

Be aware PayPal can come back and take the money directly from the Bank Account you use for a long time after a sale. No warning and no questions - they hear from the buyer with some kind of complaint and can jerk the money out - months after you thought all was fine and before you have any knowledge there may be a problem with the buyer.

[goamules]

Exactly. If you sell a $600 Summicron Leica lens, 3 months later you see a $600 deduction. Log into eBay and find the buyer has initiated a "not as described" claim. They have a LOOOOONNNNG time to do that these days. Used to be a 2 week inspection period. Then a month, then 90 days. It think it's like 6 months now. So Fred Hipster buys your Summicron, leaves it out in the rain or drops it, and get's his money back months after you forgot about it. You may or may not get the rusted hulk back in the mail. Ebay doesn't care.

[LabRat]

Prefer to sell in USA only... Delivery can be confirmed, national shipping anywhere should take much less than 2 weeks, no customs hold-ups, and better chance of clear language communication...

I seem to remember loosing about 30% after all fees are added up... And epay lowballs your shipping cost, so you end up eating the fees, insurance, and packing materials...

I wish there was another marketplace to post stuff, as a seller doing thing right, you are at a disadvantage (and the bottom of the pile, while handling the greatest risk...

Sorry for the sour grapes...

Steve K

[drj52]

How does “2)” work? Recently I bought a BIN and couldn’t pay because eBay wouldn’t link to PayPal. This persisted for 2 days with multiple attempts per day. I contacted seller and explained and offered to direct PayPal it to him. He preferred I call and he manually processed the credit card. How could direct paying via PayPal be used fraudulently. I’m rather naive about fraud practices and always amazed at the diversity of options.

Buyer gets your PayPal email address, then sends a fake "PayPal" email telling you that you've been paid, but the funds are being held until you provide a tracking number. PayPal DOES hold payments to new/infrequent sellers, but the transaction can still be seen in your PayPal account. People ship without checking, and they're hosed.



Back to selling on ebay. If you want to prevent "not as described" claims, I started putting "AS IS - For Parts - not guaranteed to work" for cameras.

You're selecting "For parts/repair" in the "Condition" field, right? As long as you don't say anything in the description contradicting that, you get some degree of protection.



Exactly. If you sell a $600 Summicron Leica lens, 3 months later you see a $600 deduction. Log into eBay and find the buyer has initiated a "not as described" claim. They have a LOOOOONNNNG time to do that these days. Used to be a 2 week inspection period. Then a month, then 90 days. It think it's like 6 months now. So Fred Hipster buys your Summicron, leaves it out in the rain or drops it, and get's his money back months after you forgot about it. You may or may not get the rusted hulk back in the mail. Ebay doesn't care.

eBay allows 30 days after delivery. PayPal allows 180 days.

[BrianShaw]

Ahhh, thanks. I’d never have thought about doing that!

[seall]

Do not for one second think that a problem which may be solved logically by your mind can be solved just as logically by ebay support staff and do not rely on ebay in any way to remedy a given situation which any normal business would consider bad practice.

Most importantly, have fun and the best of luck!

[Corran]

3) Use signature confirmation on any sale where price+shipping is $750 or more.

No, $250 is the limit. Make sure the signature is required for anything over $250.

My one bit of advice is to not let the anti-eBay or PayPal stories, which I'm sure will continue to come, worry you that much. It's still a tiny fraction of sales/purchases that end up being a problem.

I say this as someone who has bought and sold hundreds, likely thousands of items, mostly photography and pro audio stuff, with only a handful of issues. Mostly on the buying side.

[Greg]

When I was actively selling:
Only offered items as "Buy it Now" auctions
Always included plenty of picturesMy descriptions were very long and very detailed
Overpacked the items
Only used USPS Priority Service for shipping

When I was actively buying:
If it sounded too good to be true, I passed on the item
Only bought from people who had 99.9% or 100% positive feedback
If the pictures were slightly out of focus, I passed on the item
Always decided on my highest bid and stuck to it

Past year or two have almost completely stopped selling and only occasionally buy stuff now except for used books, they have to be the best bargains out there now on eBay.

[BrianShaw]

“ My one bit of advice is to not let the anti-eBay or PayPal stories, which I'm sure will continue to come, worry you that much. It's still a tiny fraction of sales/purchases that end up being a problem.”

Amen, brother!

[goamules]

I wish you the best. Tell us how it goes after you have sold, say 25 items. I sold that many a month for a while, since 1998 on Ebay. It RADICALLY changed in the past 6-7 years. If anyone hasn't sold photography items on eBay in the last 2 years, you can't really comment that it's rare to have problems. How do you know? I did it, and it became a nightmare. Many others that sold a LOT found the same thing, we all got out.

[Alan Klein]

What experience have people had selling on forums like this one?

[Jody_S]

It's pretty much the only game in town for obscure or rare photographica that isn't worth thousands of dollars. Some things I have learned after selling for 20+ years and dealing with Paypal and eBay policies that now penalize the seller because they don't care if they lose sellers, there's always someone else willing to step in to replace you:

Don't use your primary bank account. I keep a separate account just for Paypal, I obviously don't leave any money in it. Same for credit card, when they insisted I link one otherwise I couldn't sell anything over $1000. I just got a throwaway card with a very small limit.

Beware anything that is popular with the kids. Every Polaroid SX-70 I've sold in the last 5 years resulted in someone trying to scam me. List some obscure lens from 1883 and you won't get those people.

Shipping costs: the eBay calculator assumes you have a commercial account and doesn't factor in the combined 15% Paypal/ebay fees. There's no way to add a % to shipping costs to make up the difference, but you can add a fixed-dollar handling cost. Once you get an idea of general shipping rates, it's relatively easy to calculate a blanket handling cost that will let you at least break even on shipping.

Selling to USA only: you'll be losing at least 30% of the value of your sales, and eBay is trying to force 'USA-only' sellers into using their global shipping program. If you have rare items that are worth more than a couple hundred $, you're losing a lot of money if you do this. In 1999, about 80% of my sales went to USA. Now? About 25%. There are a lot of newly middle-class people all over the world, and they're getting into our kind of photography. I can't say I've had more scammers from any one country or area than another.

Use simple declarative sentences in your descriptions. People all over the world will be using automated translators to read them. I once sold a monobloc tube amplifier to someone in China, he paid $675 for express shipping by UPS, and when he got it he asked me where the other amplifier was. Because in my description, I said that if you could find another one, you would have a great stereo system.

[Dan Fromm]

What experience have people had selling on forums like this one?

This forum isn't the best place to sell, um, exotica. People here are cheapskates and not very interested in cult lenses.

For example, I once bought a 200/2 S.F.O.M. lens. This is an aerial camera lens that flew on, among others, OMERA 31 cameras. It covers 4x5, is huge, heavy and can't be put in shutter. I wanted to see what it was, and it wasn't that expensive. Junk: hazy, dim, outer surfaces mottled, ... It would never have sold here.

But and however, lenses that long and fast are cult items regardless of condition. I put it up on eBay, with good pictures and an honest accurate description. It went to China for silly money, no complaints from the buyer. No one on this forum would have touched it.

[drj52]

No, $250 is the limit. Make sure the signature is required for anything over $250.

Your information is several years out of date. $750 is the limit. Requiring a signature for amounts less than that only inconveniences your buyers, while not giving you any added protection.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protection-policy?id=4345

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection

[Corran]

Poor change. I'll continue to require signatures for anything over $250 personally.

Years ago a Nikkor-M 450mm was never received. Seller shipped it with no tracking. His loss, had to eat the whole $600 I think it was. Of course that's a whole other issue, not sending it w/ tracking, but with signature I can at least feel like it's not going to get stolen off someone's porch.

I'll respectfully disagree with your comment about "not giving you any added protection," due to that porch issue. Many times when I've sold to major metropolitan areas, signature is expressly requested...

[drj52]

Poor change. I'll continue to require signatures for anything over $250 personally.

Years ago a Nikkor-M 450mm was never received. Seller shipped it with no tracking. His loss, had to eat the whole $600 I think it was. Of course that's a whole other issue, not sending it w/ tracking, but with signature I can at least feel like it's not going to get stolen off someone's porch.

I'll respectfully disagree with your comment about "not giving you any added protection," due to that porch issue. Many times when I've sold to major metropolitan areas, signature is expressly requested...

It’s fine if the buyer requests it (and pays for it). But that protects the buyer from “porch pirates”; it does nothing for the seller. Once the tracking number shows delivery on a sub-$750 sale, the buyer won’t win a “not received” case.

[Corran]

The one issue I ever had as a buyer was a $249.99 sale of a Nikon flash unit. It was a good price - not insane, and I snagged it. Never received, tracking number just said "delivered." Some weird stuff after that happened but long story short I was told I was scammed through this very issue.

So now, scammers can sell up to $749.99 items all day, ship a postcard or something with tracking number to the McDonald's down the street so you have a tracking showing "Delivered" in your zip code, and there's no recourse for the buyer.

I like signature confirmation because you can see who signed for it at least. I'll be honest I haven't kept up with things lately, and the few sales I've done in recent times were for items north of that $750 level anyway so I must've missed this change. Gotta be wary.

[Oren Grad]

I like signature confirmation because you can see who signed for it at least.

Not so much now, as carriers have special procedures because of covid-19 and sometimes are even stretching those a bit. USPS allows the carrier to sign after talking with the recipient from a distance, but in recent days I've observed carriers, both USPS and FedEx, just dropping the package and checking it off on their tablets without verifying who is picking it up.

[Corran]

Ah yes. The new normal.

Amazon sometimes takes video of them delivering the package onto my porch. I can imagine a similar approach perhaps - Video Delivery Confirmation?

[Oren Grad]

Yeah, it was pretty spooky recently when for the first time, as I was sitting at the computer upstairs, an email popped into my inbox from Amazon telling me a package had just been delivered, with a link to a snapshot showing it sitting by my front door.

[6x6TLL]

CraigsList?



I wish there was another marketplace to post stuff, as a seller doing thing right, you are at a disadvantage (and the bottom of the pile, while handling the greatest risk...
Steve K

[Rick A]

I sell on ebay, thay are actually taking 10.79% on both sale item AND shipping. BIN items are listed until sold or removed, and they charge you for renewals which are now automatic(no longer have specified duration). Paypal account must be linked, here's what I do. I have a passbook savings account linked to Paypal (mandatory bank account) at a different bank than I use for my personal accounts, and transfer funds from PP to the passbook account, then manually remove funds and walk them over to my regular bank. This keeps PP or ebay from taking your money before you have any chance of disputing any actions initiated by disreputable buyers (I've had a couple). I only keep enough money in PP to cover fees once I get my statement.
You'll want to build in any fees with your sale prices, and if you charge extra for shipping, you definitely need to build in the ebay fees with that(example: $15.05 medium flat rate box PLUS 11% for ebay Plus 5% for PP fee and shipping rounds up to $17.50 for that box). Yes, Paypal charges for collecting shipping fees. Most times I offer BIN with shipping included, and my price reflects actual cost of shipping plus sites fee of 11%. Now you know why things cost as much as they do.

[drj52]

I sell on ebay, thay are actually taking 10.79% on both sale item AND shipping. BIN items are listed until sold or removed, and they charge you for renewals which are now automatic(no longer have specified duration). Paypal account must be linked, here's what I do. I have a passbook savings account linked to Paypal (mandatory bank account) at a different bank than I use for my personal accounts, and transfer funds from PP to the passbook account, then manually remove funds and walk them over to my regular bank. This keeps PP or ebay from taking your money before you have any chance of disputing any actions initiated by disreputable buyers (I've had a couple). I only keep enough money in PP to cover fees once I get my statement.
You'll want to build in any fees with your sale prices, and if you charge extra for shipping, you definitely need to build in the ebay fees with that(example: $15.05 medium flat rate box PLUS 11% for ebay Plus 5% for PP fee and shipping rounds up to $17.50 for that box). Yes, Paypal charges for collecting shipping fees. Most times I offer BIN with shipping included, and my price reflects actual cost of shipping plus sites fee of 11%. Now you know why things cost as much as they do.

10.79%? All the eBay sellers I know are being charged 10.00% (except the ones who list in categories with a lower %, and the ones in eBay's doghouse who are paying 14%).

Paypal charges 2.9% + 30 cents. And yes, they charge that on what the buyer pays you for shipping. Why wouldn't they? They're transferring the full payment for you. Did you know you're paying the PayPal fee on the buyer's sales tax also?

You must list quite a few items if you're being charged for renewals; unless you subscribe to a store, the first 50 items/month are listed at no charge.

[HMG]

The most important thing from a seller perspective was alluded to, but not specifically stated: When you sell an item listed as "used" in most categories, you are guaranteeing that it works. So make sure it does. You can read the specifics on the ebay site. There is no way to say "probably works". One pertinent exception is if you're selling something in the "vintage" category.

Lately, I've found Facebook groups as good or better for selling.

[John Layton]

I got horribly scammed many years ago (early 1980's), as did quite a few others...by a fake business calling themselves "Studio 21," which took advantage of an apparent loophole made possible when equipment was sent via. UPS to this "business" with a collect on delivery (C.O.D.) agreement. The "check" (fake document) given to UPS would take its good time to get back to myself and the many other victims of this scam, all of these checks arriving, being deposited, and bouncing...after the date which "Studio 21" magically ceased to exist.

I hired a lawyer (contingency basis, thank goodness!), and the Pa. AG's office and the FBI eventually got involved also, with myself and the many other folks scammed in this case - but nothing ever came of it...the bad guys won. I was out about six thousand bucks, and tried to convince my insurance company that since my equipment was never legitimately purchased from me, that I still owned it and thus should be covered under the "stolen equipment" clause. They argued otherwise as my intent was, indeed, to sell...and my lawyer convinced me that they were probably right.

These days I'm extremely cautious...especially about selling equipment. I typically will only sell to folks who've had a good history on this forum, and encourage email and/or phone contact as part of the process, and I never use PayPal or eBay, which I know has caused some inconvenience and some missed sales opportunities...but so be it!

[goamules]

For the long-time ebay policy of sucking refunds out of your bank account, I also set up a special account at my bank. I told them to NOT transfer any over drafts or give me instant line of credit on that account, because on my main account they "protect me" from overdraft charges by doing that. It's worked for over a decade. When I get a payment in Paypal, I transfer it over to the "fun account". Then I transfer it over to my "real" account. It only takes a few logins and minutes.

I used to keep a balance in Paypal so I could buy more things, after I sold some. But that changed. One thing to know about Paypal is you cannot easily maintain a balance anymore, unless you buy their credit card. That was the latest shock about 6 months ago when I did a rare sale. After payment by the buyer, it said "you have funds!" but I didn't SEE them. You have to "get funds" or something with a few buttons, and it automatically transfers to your bank. It won't just "sit there" in Paypal anymore. Unless you sign up for their credit, which I'm not about to do.

[Bob Salomon]

For the long-time ebay policy of sucking refunds out of your bank account, I also set up a special account at my bank. I told them to NOT transfer any over drafts or give me instant line of credit on that account, because on my main account they "protect me" from overdraft charges by doing that. It's worked for over a decade. When I get a payment in Paypal, I transfer it over to the "fun account". Then I transfer it over to my "real" account. It only takes a few logins and minutes.

I used to keep a balance in Paypal so I could buy more things, after I sold some. But that changed. One thing to know about Paypal is you cannot easily maintain a balance anymore, unless you buy their credit card. That was the latest shock about 6 months ago when I did a rare sale. After payment by the buyer, it said "you have funds!" but I didn't SEE them. You have to "get funds" or something with a few buttons, and it automatically transfers to your bank. It won't just "sit there" in Paypal anymore. Unless you sign up for their credit, which I'm not about to do.

A few years ago I sold something on eBay and got that “you have funds” notice. I had assumed that it went into my bank account as it had in the past. So I added the funds to my checking balance. A few days later my bank sent me an overdraft notice and they had no record of a transfer from eBay.
I called eBay and they told me that an account had been set up for me with PayPal and that is where the funds went.
I called PayPal to have them send the money to my bank. They said that since I had a new PayPal account that they could not transfer the funds for 30 days! I blew up! Spoke to a supervisor after supervisor till they escalated the call to a VP. He agreed, finally to immediately transfer my money. Especially after I asked him why they would not pay interest on my money that they planned on keeping for a month!
I then went to my bank manager, explained what happened, she credited back overdraft charges, made sure any outstanding checks would be honored and then said that she has had several other PayPal problems like this.
Have not sold or bought anything on eBay since or used PayPal! They certainly don’t act like anyone’s “pal”!

[goamules]

Don't get me started. My 79 year old mom decided she wanted a Paypal account so she could buy on ebay, against our advice. So she did it without telling us. Didn't buy much if anything. 6 months later she was confused and while trying to buy something, she logged in and noticed problems. She updated her address to her home address. About a month later she got a letter in the regular mail and called me. It said "you have not paid your balance in a while, please pay." She called me worried.

Sure enough, someone had hacked her personal information, and had been buying things in "her" name for the past year. They even were paying the minimum balance due each month so it wouldn't be turned off, and accruing about $4,000 in a revolving account. They'd changed all the addresses and contact info from my mom.

We immediately called them, it was a nightmare. We involved the credit Bureaus, the local police department and made a identity theft claim. Paypal fraud support (actually Synchrony bank that they affiliated with) went from saying "don't worry mam'me it will be fine....we've locked it and you won't owe anything..." To "you are lying, we know you were paying the balance and buying the items..." They were buying software items from Hong Kong sometimes 10 times a week. Right, my mom. And they were paying from a different state and address. Right. I had to deal with it in dozen's of phone calls and emails, sending power of attorney several times that they would "lose", and finally involving the State DA. TWO times they denied her fraud claim, but didn't give any reasons, just a form letter and nice statement "be sure to pay any balance due!" It kept her awake at night, it raised my blood pressure. I'd call and demand answers, they would "start a new claim" then you'd get the same reassurances it would be ok. 6 weeks later, she'd get a "Claim denied...pay your bill" letter. I finally started using social media to blast Synchrony Bank telling the world. They'd ask to call me and "what can we do to make you happy?" type calls. Um....recognize my mom was a victim of fraud and immediately clear her. "we can't do that, we'll open another fraud claim for you..." This finally was resolved about 2 months ago. She is cleared. BUT - don't even THINK of applying for the Paypal Credit. It's toxic.

[Jim Noel]

These accounts are not unusual. I have for years stated I would not buy if I had to use Paypal. I broke that rule recently ,but will not do so again. I have directed my wife to close her Paypal acct which I Have used .I only pay with USPS Money Orders, and will only sell if paid in that manner.

[Corran]

Most likely no one will buy from you then. I certainly wouldn't. Why should a buyer take such a flagrant risk, using a MO with no recourse if someone dips?

[drj52]

Most likely no one will buy from you then. I certainly wouldn't. Why should a buyer take such a flagrant risk, using a MO with no recourse if someone dips?

I’m still hung up on the “directed my wife” part.

[BrianShaw]

I’m still hung up on the “directed my wife” part.

He may have said it but I don’t believe she complied until she decided on her own...

[Alan Klein]

I sold my car last year and advertised on a couple of car sales sites. Both warned me to watch out for fraud. If the deal smells bad in any way, don't get involved. Don't sell to out of state buyers. They're usually phoney because why not get a car where you live? (Obviously different than rarer camera equipment). Don't deal with agents of prospective buyers. Lot's of Russian con artists. Be aware. I had one woman with a Russian accent who said she'd send her friend as she has to go on a trip overseas. I said thanks but no thanks. Accept cash only. Even certified checks can be phonied up. When you go to cash them, they bounce. When I sold my car, I met the guy in my bank after he drove the car and we agree on price. We closed the deal in a room the bank officer gave us for an hour where cash was given and I immediately deposited it before leaving the bank. He got all the signed papers and we all left happy. The only time I would have accepted a certified check is if it was drawn on my bank and I could deposit it and clear it at the same time the papers were signed. Since he had a different bank, I told him I would only accept cash.

[Jody_S]

For those who want to protect themselves at all cost against any possible type of fraud, consider that your local convenience store could easily stop shoplifting by allowing customers in one at a time and searching every single one as they left. But they don't do that, because legitimate customers don't like being treated like criminals and will simply go to the store across the street. If you make it a business, or a serious hobby, of selling, you cannot refuse the normal conventions of buying and selling without seriously hurting your business. If you have a one-of-a-kind rare lens that everyone wants, yes you will find someone to buy it on your terms, but otherwise you're only getting the people willing to jump through hoops for the sake of a bargain. Because your stuff is only going to sell at bargain prices.


-my apologies for accidentally posting this on an image thread

Not to worry, all cleaned up. -- Oren

[HMG]

For the long-time ebay policy of sucking refunds out of your bank account, I also set up a special account at my bank. I told them to NOT transfer any over drafts or give me instant line of credit on that account, because on my main account they "protect me" from overdraft charges by doing that. It's worked for over a decade. When I get a payment in Paypal, I transfer it over to the "fun account". Then I transfer it over to my "real" account. It only takes a few logins and minutes.

I used to keep a balance in Paypal so I could buy more things, after I sold some. But that changed. One thing to know about Paypal is you cannot easily maintain a balance anymore, unless you buy their credit card. That was the latest shock about 6 months ago when I did a rare sale. After payment by the buyer, it said "you have funds!" but I didn't SEE them. You have to "get funds" or something with a few buttons, and it automatically transfers to your bank. It won't just "sit there" in Paypal anymore. Unless you sign up for their credit, which I'm not about to do.

Notwithstanding all the other issues that may arise with Paypal, I don't believe you are correct about this. I have a paypal account, with a balance, and I have not signed up for their credit card. You may be referring to a change that happened a while ago resulting from regulatory changes in how Paypal has to treat balances. Some info here: https://esellercafe.com/paypal-us-consumer-account-changes-will-require-separate-paypal-cash-balance-account/

I tie my paypal account to a long defunct bank account. When I want to take money out, I request a check at the cost of a couple bucks. I do that at $500 or more so it's a small price to pay for "insulating" my paypal account.

[HMG]

I sold my car last year and advertised on a couple of car sales sites. Both warned me to watch out for fraud. If the deal smells bad in any way, don't get involved. Don't sell to out of state buyers. They're usually phoney because why not get a car where you live? (Obviously different than rarer camera equipment). Don't deal with agents of prospective buyers. Lot's of Russian con artists. Be aware. I had one woman with a Russian accent who said she'd send her friend as she has to go on a trip overseas. I said thanks but no thanks. Accept cash only. Even certified checks can be phonied up. When you go to cash them, they bounce. When I sold my car, I met the guy in my bank after he drove the car and we agree on price. We closed the deal in a room the bank officer gave us for an hour where cash was given and I immediately deposited it before leaving the bank. He got all the signed papers and we all left happy. The only time I would have accepted a certified check is if it was drawn on my bank and I could deposit it and clear it at the same time the papers were signed. Since he had a different bank, I told him I would only accept cash.

It's not that unusual to buy a car in a neighboring state. And if the car is somewhat uncommon, to buy in a further away state. Also, note that there is a difference between a certified check and a cashiers check. If a certified check, best that it's drawn on your bank as you required.

[Drew Bedo]

Wow!

Many thanks to everyone. I have read akll the pros and cons. I appreciatre the financial advice regarding separating accounts.

I will be selling off some odd gear, most of it well under $500. Other items will be a few books. Just trying to simplify my liufe and let go of the past .


Again: Thanks to everyone.

[drj52]

Wow!

Many thanks to everyone. I have read akll the pros and cons. I appreciatre the financial advice regarding separating accounts.

I will be selling off some odd gear, most of it well under $500. Other items will be a few books. Just trying to simplify my liufe and let go of the past .


Again: Thanks to everyone.

If you have more questions before you start, or if you run into an issue with a sale, please post again. It can be a bit disorienting, and even counter-intuitive at times.

[Drew Bedo]

If you have more questions before you start, or if you run into an issue with a sale, please post again. It can be a bit disorienting, and even counter-intuitive at times.

I had listed an item several days before posting here. With all this good advice here, I would now like to pull that one item and discontinue the offering.

But I couldn't figure that out. There doesn't seem to be a button for that that I can see.

Please understand that I am visually impaired and sometimes navigating website pages is not as obvious to me as it may be for others.

[drj52]

I had listed an item several days before posting here. With all this good advice here, I would now like to pull that one item and discontinue the offering.

But I couldn't figure that out. There doesn't seem to be a button for that that I can see.

Please understand that I am visually impaired and sometimes navigating website pages is not as obvious to me as it may be for others.

Go here:

https://www.ebay.com/sh/lst/active

To the left of your item's photo, there should be an "Edit" link. Click the down arrow next to "Edit", and select "End item". On the next page, select a reason for ending, then click "End my listing".

[Rick A]

10.79%? All the eBay sellers I know are being charged 10.00% (except the ones who list in categories with a lower %, and the ones in eBay's doghouse who are paying 14%).

Paypal charges 2.9% + 30 cents. And yes, they charge that on what the buyer pays you for shipping. Why wouldn't they? They're transferring the full payment for you. Did you know you're paying the PayPal fee on the buyer's sales tax also?

You must list quite a few items if you're being charged for renewals; unless you subscribe to a store, the first 50 items/month are listed at no charge.

Initial listing is free, but read the fine print, charges apply for automatic relisting.

[drj52]

Initial listing is free, but read the fine print, charges apply for automatic relisting.

Relistings count as one of your 50 free per month, same as the original listing. If you're getting charged, then you're doing more than 50 listings/relistings per month (or you have a store subscription, which gives you a larger # of listings for one monthly fee).

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4364#section1

[Alan Klein]

It's not that unusual to buy a car in a neighboring state. And if the car is somewhat uncommon, to buy in a further away state. Also, note that there is a difference between a certified check and a cashiers check. If a certified check, best that it's drawn on your bank as you required.

I was selling a 2006 Acura TL, nothing too uncommon. To drive over 100 miles to see and buy it seem strange to me. So I ignored those "buyers" and found one 20 miles away, some guy buying a car for his daughter going to college. Both the father and the girl took the car out for a drive. Even the mother was there. Even with that, I asked for cash. Other calls I received just seemed phony. A bell went off. I don't recall what the ad company said about cashiers vs certified. I guess the concern is they both can be phony. Once you sign the title over, go find the people to sue. One of the things I did when someone wanted to see the car, I got their home address to help assure they were legitimate. If someone hands you a phoney cashiers check, and you have no idea where they live, how do you ever find them to get your car back or sue them? They're gone. The car's gone. Your money's gone. :)

[goamules]

My fear of fraud on eBay has made it impossible to sell big ticket items that have to be shipped. Over $5000 sell price and you are in a very risky position. How do jewelers sell a $6,000 diamond ring, or a $20,000 Philippe Patek watch, I'll never know. Because if the overseas buyer says "it had a fake diamond" and sends it back so configured, you're hosed. Or says "the watch was empty, no action inside." Or "it never arrived" when it did. Or....it stopped working...." and they send back the watch with a fake action inside.

All the things that happen to lens and camera sales made me decide against putting my Hermagis Mammoth up on ebay. I just can't take the chance of shipping it, having a Chinese fraudster tell ebay they never got it, or the box was empty, and ebay coming after my bank account (or me) to get the money back. Meanwhile, the lens is off in a foreign country, in the guy's hands, that says he never got it. If ebay won't stop all the fake Rolex and Leicas on their market, you think they're going to help a one time sale of $10,000? Nope.

[Drew Bedo]

Thank God I only sell small items.

Years ago, before e-Bay went public and became so sophisticated, I sold an odd-ball camera.

I got this Fairchild airgraft (reconnaissance) camera that took 70mm cassettes and had a complex electrical plug. Iput it uop for auction with out a picture (pre digital) and it went to some guy in Japan. We exchanged e-mails. I Rede scribed the camera in detail using formal English to avoid misunderstandings (no Google Translate). We agreed that it would ship the least expensive (slowest) way. He mailed me a money order, I sent the camera. Six weeks later he e-mailed me that it had arrived and that he was delighted.

That must have been thirty years ago.

[Corran]

I got into eBay with my dad in 1996, when I was about 13. We sold collectible trading cards online. I used to go to big trading meetups at malls and conventions in Atlanta, then sell my big scores on eBay. All of that was money orders - never had any issues.

Later on my mom ran a business selling women's clothes on eBay. Still mostly checks and MO's. At some point she began having issues with fake MO's, almost all of which came from sales of a high number of items all at once, but pretty soon PayPal came on the scene and fixed all of those issues.

I used to sell...well a lot, on eBay, camera and pro audio, but I've mostly stopped for other reasons, not least of which that the well of estate sales and pawn shop finds has seemingly dried up, for the moment. The few times I sold big-ticket items to China it went fine, including a $2500 Xenotar to a non-English speaker there. I've got other stories, but...not the time :).

[Alan Klein]

I got into eBay with my dad in 1996, when I was about 13. We sold collectible trading cards online. I used to go to big trading meetups at malls and conventions in Atlanta, then sell my big scores on eBay. All of that was money orders - never had any issues.

Later on my mom ran a business selling women's clothes on eBay. Still mostly checks and MO's. At some point she began having issues with fake MO's, almost all of which came from sales of a high number of items all at once, but pretty soon PayPal came on the scene and fixed all of those issues.

I used to sell...well a lot, on eBay, camera and pro audio, but I've mostly stopped for other reasons, not least of which that the well of estate sales and pawn shop finds has seemingly dried up, for the moment. The few times I sold big-ticket items to China it went fine, including a $2500 Xenotar to a non-English speaker there. I've got other stories, but...not the time :).

Sorry to say but with the economy the way it is, I think pawn shops will start getting a lot of camera stuff again as people need money to live.

[goamules]

A well known camera collector/seller on a FB group posted this today:

"I sold a nice Leica IIIA body on EBAY to the highest bidder. I get a request for a return with these exact words: "I wanted to see if I would like a Barnack Leica IIIA compared to my IIIC. I think I will stick to my later model. Thank you for letting me try this particular model though, it is a beauty." There aren't enough words to describe my feelings toward someone who would do this to someone else who is selling on EBAY or to treat any seller like this, anyplace or anywhere. By the way, he has ONE MONTH to return the item, meanwhile PAYPAL has my funds on hold."

Many replied similar things happening to them, like this one: "I had a buyer return a Nikon D800 six weeks and 15k actuations later, claiming the camera did not take sharp pictures."

eBay can crash and burn for all I care after all their changes leaning towards these type of scamsters. Like Drew, I sold to many delighted buyers over the years. I made friends even, who should contact me later to show the photos they were taking with my item. But it became increasingly rare. Then last year I sold 5 camera items over the year, and got scammed 4 out of 5 times. Most going to China. I quit.

[Alan Klein]

Unfortunately, getting into large format photography requires buying used, at least for lenses.

[goamules]

Oh buying is great. You buy an 88 year old lens, use it a while, then complain and send it back. Just like at Walmart. Except Walmart is a multi-billion dollar company, not Fred Gump selling at a yard sale. Fred gets burned selling.

[tonyowen]

I have used eBay and PayPal for several years with only one problem.
This was a Nikon camera with a delivery address to London (UK). Subsequently I got a ‘[B]not as described’ message from Georgia (in Eastern Europe].
PayPal immediately withdrew the whole buying fee from my PayPal account without warning and held until I argued the illogicality of the claim. Also PayPal did not accept the buyer’s reasoning for the item’s travel from the UK to Eastern Europe, nor the fact that addresses and eBay user-names in three countries were involved.

In this case I got the camera back at the buyer’s expense from Georgia and had the full sales value refunded to my PayPal account.
But it took a long and frustrating time to sort out.

By habit I always take photographs of the item(s) sold and the packaging.
My listings are only for the UK, and have the no returns condition specified.
Regarding cost of using eBay/PayPal my average nett profit over five years {selling price -[shipping cost + eBay & PayPal fees]} is 72%
Unfortunately, there is no real alternative for selling photographic items.
Alway be a Buyer and/or Seller aware
Regards
Tony

[wclark5179]

Just a thought to help.

Have you given consideration to selling on rangefinderforum.com? Or here on this forum?

Like minded folks there.