Sharing mounting the sinar copal shutter on arca swiss cameras

[mhayashi]

I’m now preparing for mounting a barrel lens on my arca swiss metric.
Just for sharing, I bought the following adapters made by a Chinese manufacturer called Luland on ebay.

Luland Produced Arca Swiss 141mm to SINAR Shutter Adapter Plate

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Luland-Produced-Arca-Swiss-141mm-to-SINAR-Shutter-Adapter-Plate/183105353011?hash=item2aa1edf533:g:~aQAAOSwhvFZCaif

Luland Arca Swiss 171mm to Arca Swiss 141mm Lens board adapter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Luland-Arca-Swiss-171mm-to-Arca-Swiss-141mm-Lens-board-adapter/184102926730?hash=item2add63b98a:g:RDUAAOSwWI1eB0vx

My standard is the older 171mm, so I needed the adapter of 171mm to 141mm standard.
You don’t need it if you have the current 141mm standard.

I fitted all the parts. Overall, everything is fine except the extra space between the sinar copal shutter and the shutter adapter.
I need to tape the adapter rim(the rightmost pic in the first reply) to thicken the notch of the sinar copal shutter, otherwise the shutter and the lens tilt downward a little bit, then the focal plane isn’t parallel to the film plane.

I will post the lens mounted on the camera when I receive the TTH series IIe cooke f4.5 325mm lens.

If you mount a sinar copal shutter on arca cameras by any other means, let me know just for my interest.

[mhayashi]

more pictures are added.

[mhayashi]

I have made a custom mounting ring on a sinar board and
mounted on the arca metric with orbix.
The lensboard lock can tolerate 4kg weight including lens, lensboard, adapters and sinar copal shutter.
But I found the micrometric orbix can’t tolerate 4kg so the front standard tilts a bit due to orbix gear play but the gear doesn’t move yet so stays.
I think at this weight brass lenses like this, the f-line classic w/o orbix is better for such weight.

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[cowanw]

I have done much the same with a Cambo setup but, because all my lenses are on Cambo boards, I also did the reverse in the front and ended the lineup connected to a third Cambo standard to which the lenses are attached. This creates a super stable front assembly but does make the use of front tilts awkward but quite doable. I was even able to use this on a Deardorff 8x10 with my Deardorff to Cambo adaptor.

[mhayashi]

Cowanw, thanks for sharing. That’s another solution too, especially for stability and lens extrusion inwards towards to the film plane. Many brass lenses seem to extrude from lensboard with the original mounting ring, so attaching the lensboard to the sinar shutter doesn’t have a clearance between the lens and the shutter blade. So I need to make a costly custom mounting ring in such a case to align the lens to the lensboard like the picture above,
or use an universal iris mount and gain a clearance between the lens and the shutter blade for a lightweight barrel lens
or use some extruded lensboard for the clearance to avoid custom mounting rings and so on.

On the other hand, there are advantages of mounting the lensboard to the shutter, especially for a big diameter lens nearly to the inner diameter of the sinar shutter, 75mm. So the shutter diameter doesn’t interfere the image circle of the lens as much as possible. And another point you mention is tilting the lens is parallel to the shutter, so no loss is in the light path.

[cowanw]

Just to complete my contribution I have also taken the largest Packard shutter, with a 5 inch hole and sandwiched it between two stainless steel serving dishes (from a nearby restaurant supply store) with felt gaskets and adaptors as per your original post and a barbed connector for the bulb hose. That stays on my 8x10 Cambo for longer (usuallly 19 in.) barrel lenses with rear glass diameter greater than the Sinar shutter size.
Regards
Bill

[mhayashi]

Yes, I thought too the limitation of the sinar shutter diameter 75mm that larger lenses of focal length/f number exceeds 75mm. My next step would be that Dallmeyer 3B 290mm/F3=97mm>75mm can’t be used with the sinar shutter for 8x10 and the packard shutter helps as you use! Dish shutter sandwiches!

[Scott Davis]

Which Cooke portrait lens is that in what focal length? I might soon be acquiring one, and that could be the ticket, if the lens would work with a Sinar shutter.

[mhayashi]

Scott, mine is TTH series IIe cooke f4.5 325mm.
I made sure the focal length/f number is less than 75mm and the actual diameter of the rear lens before the purchase.
325mm/4.5=72.2mm<75mm for the rough estimate.
Of course, the the angle of view of the lens is also a matter for the thickness of the shutter body to take account of the physical vignetting.

All I found on the internet for the IIe’s image circle coverage at full aperture wide open is shown below.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=161922&d=1488295089

[jeanba3000]

About adding a shutter to 4x5" Arca camera, I adapted a Speed Graphic body to the rear of an Arca F-Line.
You can see this article about it : Arca Swiss / Speed Graphic (https://galerie-photo.com/metissage-arca-swiss-speed-graphic.html)
Sorry it's in french, you may use googletranslate to read it, but the pictures give a good idea about the project.
This is less precise than a Sinar shutter, but you are not limited by the shutter opening diameter.

[mhayashi]

Jean, thanks for sharing your example. Nice DIY solution!
I read the page by chrome. The Graphlex shutter is an advantage over Sinar copal shutter in terms of the shutter speed range and the maximum range of lens diameters.

[jeanba3000]

Well, we need to take into account the speed accuracy and general state of the very old Graflex shutter. Since then I had to have the curtain and the spring replaced. My repairman advised me to not use the highest speed scale if I wanted the shutter to last…

An advantage of the Sinar shutter is that you can use it on a larger camera like 8x10". A Graflex 8x10" shutter does exist, but it's quite rare and a working one very very rare.

[mhayashi]

An advantage of the Sinar shutter is that you can use it on a larger camera like 8x10". A Graflex 8x10" shutter does exist, but it's quite rare and a working one very very rare.

Jean, that’s right. Of course faster speed than 1/60 could be compensated by an ND stopper if the shutter speed is less important in high EV situation.

I found the sinar copal shutter is fairly accurate.
I don’t have any experience with the focal plane shutter yet.

BTW, nice Aero-ektar application to 4x5!
Do you have any sample images taken by your arca on internet?

[jeanba3000]

I have this try, I don't remember the film, probably FP4+
http://jeanba3000.free.fr/aero1.jpg

[mhayashi]

Thanks Jean for your post.
I could see the OOF transition by the vertical columns.