65mm lens comparison

[JimboWalker]

OK! I am going to bite the bullet and buy a 65mm lens for 4x5 that is better than the SK 65mm f8 that I have now. Any comparisons between the Fuji 65mm SWD f 5.6 and the Nikon 65mm f4? I have compared specs on both, but would like real experience on issues like exposer fall off, etc. I will probably seldom use this focal length, but would like to have the best. Thanks!!

[Greg]

Never had a 65mm f/5.6 Fuji SWD, but previously had a 65mm f/5.6 Super Angulon. Then came upon a 65mm f/4 Nikkor at a price that I had a hard time of passing up on. The f/4 optic was only one stop faster than the f/5.6 optic, but in the field that additional one stop made a huge difference for me. I found the f/4 optic much easier to focus to a very noticeable degree.

[JimboWalker]

What about actual optical performance? I am mostly curious about exposure fall off and coverage. I will be using primarily on a Pacemaker Graphic so movements are very limited. If necessary, I will mount on a Calumet Wide Angle body.

[Bob Salomon]

What about actual optical performance? I am mostly curious about exposure fall off and coverage. I will be using primarily on a Pacemaker Graphic so movements are very limited. If necessary, I will mount on a Calumet Wide Angle body.

If you are concerned with fall off then why are you looking at lenses that don’t have center filter for them?

[ic-racer]

My experience with 65mm on 4x5" format view camera is that resolution is limited by how perfectly the detents for the standards can be set. A fraction of a millimeter off and one side of the horizon is always going to be slightly out of focus.

[Dan Fromm]

If you are concerned with fall off then why are you looking at lenses that don’t have center filter for them?

Oh, come on, Bob. Although Nikon and Fuji didn't make center filters for their w/a lenses, there are Rodenstock and Schneider CFs that do well on them.

Jimbo, use the list to find manufacturers' catalog and look up their coverage claims. And use it to find my article on center filters.

[Jody_S]

My experience with 65mm (SA 65/5.6) is that I now leave it on a shelf at home.

[JimboWalker]

Thanks for all the snarky responses. Since you know it all, I will trust myself.

[Neal Chaves]

I used a 65mm f8 Fujinon W extensively on a TRF Crown. It can fold up in the case. I placed the infinity stops on the inner rails behind the front standard and cut a RF cam for it. I used a 20mm Russian 35mm camera viewfinder for 4x5 and put the Graphic Wide angle attachment in the cameras viewfinder for 6X9 roll film. The 65mm f8 Fujinon is very sharp and uses 52mm filters.

[mdarnton]

Will the f4 Nikkor's rear component fit through the hole behind a Pacemaker board and/or fit inside the bellows?

[Jody_S]

Thanks for all the snarky responses. Since you know it all, I will trust myself.

Not trying to rain on your parade. I spent years looking longingly at these since I wanted something wider than 90mm on 4x5, before finally buying both a SA 65/5.6 and a Fujinon-W 75/5.6 within a month of each other (got a great deal on the 65 after buying the 75). I had to make a recessed lens board to use them, so I hadn't had a chance to try the Fujinon-W 75mm before buying the SA 65mm. I had to buy a low-profile filter holder after my first outing. And in the end, I could not get a good image from the 65, and ended up with vignetting on more than half my images no matter how careful I was. But no issues whatsoever using the 75mm, that one lives in my camera bag now.

I can't tell them apart just from image quality, they're pretty much identical in practise for B&W, just about the same size, identical shutters, etc. I would buy on condition/price if I had to buy another, from any of the big lens makers. Unless I needed the extra stop from the Nikon f4.

[Per Madsen]

Not trying to rain on your parade. I spent years looking longingly at these since I wanted something wider than 90mm on 4x5, before finally buying both a SA 65/5.6 and a Fujinon-W 75/5.6 within a month of each other (got a great deal on the 65 after buying the 75). I had to make a recessed lens board to use them, so I hadn't had a chance to try the Fujinon-W 75mm before buying the SA 65mm. I had to buy a low-profile filter holder after my first outing. And in the end, I could not get a good image from the 65, and ended up with vignetting on more than half my images no matter how careful I was. But no issues whatsoever using the 75mm, that one lives in my camera bag now.

I can't tell them apart just from image quality, they're pretty much identical in practise for B&W, just about the same size, identical shutters, etc. I would buy on condition/price if I had to buy another, from any of the big lens makers. Unless I needed the extra stop from the Nikon f4.

I have the Nikon 65 mm 4.0. Very good, but tricky to use on a Toyo 45AII.
It is mounted on a 1" depression wide angle board with Toyo's wide angle cable release adapter and the aperture/shutter speed controls are difficult to reach, if you have thicker than average fingers.
The main optical problem is to avoid getting the camera bed in the picture.

[Mick Fagan]

Another photographer, also a member of this forum picked up a Nikon 65mm and upon seeing the images and what it could do, I decided a 65mm lens would be a nice fit for my kind of photography. This forum member also lives in my home town and I have looked at his GG with his Nikon 65mm lens. That is the only experience I have with the Nikon 65mm lens, but I have seen some of his images and they are different from mine mainly because we are different photographers.

I ended up with the Fujinon SWD f/5.6 65mm lens, it is terrific. With regard to the differences between a Nikon or Fujinon version, for what I do I don't think any small differences that there may be, would make any practical difference.

What I did do that made a huge difference, was to pick up a 67mm Heliopan centre graduated filter, enormous difference. From the day I picked that filter up, my 65mm lens has been a most useful tool; I cannot envisage ever useing the 65mm focal length without a centre filter. Unless that is, I wish to make use of the fall off, which is quite real and pronounced. I use my 65mm lens quite a lot, more than I thought I would.

This was taken with the Fujnon 65mm and centre filter; if you view the image on its own, you may get a better appreciation of what 65mm looks like. Looking through the fence, it looks as though the centre is lighter, it is, but not because of the lens or graduated centre filter; that was how the light was.

Look at the sky across the top of the image, it is virtually constant across the entire frame; this is the graduated centre filter doing its magic.

The bottom and top of the negative have had a slight cropping, but the width is edge to edge of the negative. The lens was approximately 500mm from the fence wire in the foreground.

Unfortunately on this forum when I upload anything it is reduced to a thumbnail size and when enlarged it is still quite small.

Mick.



203783

[JimboWalker]

It should. My 90mm Grandagon and my Fuji 75mm SWD fit.

[JimboWalker]

Thanks! This what I needed to know! I think I will hold off on investing in a 65mm just now. I was hoping to hear that the fall off would be more acceptable with the F4 or 5.6 lenses. I cannot spend $360 for the lens and then another $200 for a center filter for a lens I my not need very often. My Fuji 75mm SWD works fine for me now. The Fuji is very sharp and I see VERY Little fall off.

[mdarnton]

As far as coverage, here is my 5x7 65mm rig
https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldarnton/13995403977/in/dateposted-public/

And the results
https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldarnton/14174772411/in/dateposted-public/
And
https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldarnton/13991411220/in/dateposted-public/

I guess someone with a ruler could figure out what's acceptable for them.

[Dan Fromm]

My Fuji 75mm SWD works fine for me now. The Fuji is very sharp and I see VERY Little fall off.

Um, er, ah, with a 75 mm lens centered on the gate the corners of 4x5 will be 2 stops down from the center. Decentering movements will darken the corners shifted away from more. Some images can stand this, others can't.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I have three Schneder 65mm f/8 lenses, and "Schneider Center Filter for 65mm F8 SA"

I think I paid $200 for the filter; since you have the lens you might consider this way?

[JimboWalker]

I would go for the filter, but so far, impossible to find.

[JimboWalker]

Ok . This is the one and only image I have shot with my Fuji 75mm SWD f5.6. This is a straight scan from my Epson 4990 except for a little contrast adjustment. The foreground is in shadow and beyond the gate at the end of the brick walkway is full sunlight. I am pleased with the rendition of this situation, but maybe I would not want to shoot an evenly lit wall . I do not see 2 stops down from center. This was centered on the gate.203812

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49539304826_9ae75c65ac_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2itBTph)Norma Handy Stuff 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2itBTph) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

It's not on Dan's listing but here is mine.

[Hmuessig]

I see no one has mentioned the Rodenstock 65mm f4.5 Grandagon-N . . .

It is one of the sharpest lenses I have - next to my Rodenstock 150mm Sironar-S. It is also a nice small size. And it uses a 58mm center filter - a bit cheaper than the 67mm ones of any brand. My camera is a Toyo 45A and I've never had any problem with the bed in the picture except when I needed to drop the lens. As someone else noted, on a Toyo Field camera the 65 needs to be on a recessed board: a shutter release angles extension is essential and aperture, shutter and cocking, and press focus can be a challenge if you have big fingers - Chopsticks or something similar work well for setting the shutter even with the center filter on.

[hiend61]

I see no one has mentioned the Rodenstock 65mm f4.5 Grandagon-N . . .

It is one of the sharpest lenses I have - next to my Rodenstock 150mm Sironar-S. It is also a nice small size. And it uses a 58mm center filter - a bit cheaper than the 67mm ones of any brand. My camera is a Toyo 45A and I've never had any problem with the bed in the picture except when I needed to drop the lens. As someone else noted, on a Toyo Field camera the 65 needs to be on a recessed board: a shutter release angles extension is essential and aperture, shutter and cocking, and press focus can be a challenge if you have big fingers - Chopsticks or something similar work well for setting the shutter even with the center filter on.

+1 for the Rodenstock Grandagon N 65/4,5. It´s very very sharp. I shot color slide film and I find the center filter is mandatory, unless you like heavy fall off efect.

[Neal Chaves]

Will the f4 Nikkor's rear component fit through the hole behind a Pacemaker board and/or fit inside the bellows?

I have a 65mm f4 Nikkor SW on a Pacemaker Graphic lens board and it fits just fine on a 4X5 TRF Crown. It can cam-couple to the RF like the Fujinon 65/8, but it cannot fold up in the case.

[Alan Klein]

My experience with 65mm (SA 65/5.6) is that I now leave it on a shelf at home.

Why?

I'm just getting into 4x5 and have a 75, 90 and 150mm. I do have a center filter for the 90mm but not the 75mm. I'm just starting to shoot and was wondering if you'd share your experience.

[Jody_S]

Why?

I'm just getting into 4x5 and have a 75, 90 and 150mm. I do have a center filter for the 90mm but not the 75mm. I'm just starting to shoot and was wondering if you'd share your experience.

I guess the real reason is that I can't compose an image in my mind with a 65mm. My 75mm sees pretty much what my 90mm sees only a little bit wider, and behaves exactly the same when shooting. It was a very small adjustment for me to go a little bit wider. But composing on a ground glass with the 65 has proved too challenging, I keep getting things in the image that aren't supposed to be there (like my filter holder), vignetting because the image circle is too small and I don't use a camera with detents and all that stuff that would allow me to lock everything down perfectly centered and parallel.

I guess it comes down to the 65mm seeing wider than the human eye/brain does, I have similar difficulty composing with a small format fisheye because I can't see in my mind what the final image will be. It remains a novelty focal length for most, IMHO. You bring it out when you're not seeing anything good and hope you get lucky with some unusual perspective or proportion.

[mdarnton]

Same for me. I have and use 15mm 35mm lenses and 21mm is my favorite, but 65mm on 4x5 is something I can't deal with. . .I prefer 75 or even longer.
A mystery.

[Corran]

My 2nd-favorite focal length, after 90mm, is 58mm. I think I'm pretty good at ultrawide shooting. A lot of folks here seem to be partial to longer lenses.

Also depends on where/what you are shooting...

Oh, and there's a big difference in maneuverability when it comes to small handheld cameras vs. a 4x5 on a tripod. Certainly makes things a bit more difficult in terms of composition.

[Peter De Smidt]

It really is strange. In 35mm/LX digital, my favorite lens is 20mm, but in 4x5 I use 120 much more than 90.

[Corran]

I wonder, for those that shoot ultrawide on 35mm/FX but longer on 4x5 - does the aspect ratio change your compositional perspective? Do you use a lot of foreground/background relationships or just show a "wide view?" Is your tripod at eye-level or are you finding the best place* for the composition you envision?

Something else - when shooting 90mm I often use front fall/rise to accentuate foreground objects. This is just like a ~21mm lens on 35mm with the top cropped off. 65mm and wider starts to get REALLY wide. I think of 90mm as equivalent to 21/25mm lenses, depending on aspect ratio comparisons on the long/short ends.

*A recent precarious tripod position (http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/precarioustripod.jpg). needed to get the composition that accentuates the foreground (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?46577-What-did-you-compose-at-Waters-Edge&p=1551612&viewfull=1#post1551612).

[Bernice Loui]

Wide angle lenses are great FUN...
203946


Bernice

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49539309796_23d7e5efde_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2itBUSY)Norma Handy Stuff 3 (https://flic.kr/p/2itBUSY) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I found another use for the 65mm F8 Super Angulon. I built this Norma Handy 4x5 camera from original Norma parts (65mm F8 SA lens cone/board and attached SA 65/8 helical are Norma products) and some cobbled together others. I need to get out and use this :) BTW 65mm F8 SA Center Filter is attached to the neckstrap. Strap lugs from Pentax 6x7. Optical finder is 43mm Mamiya 7 and works great. Actually Sinar did not start Handy production until after the Norma era. This is the camera that they should have produced. For XMAS I bought myself a couple more 4x5 Graphmatics, this is the way to use this Baby. It DOES attract a lot of attention............

I have three 65mm SA F8s and once you understand their limitations they are quite usuable and not expensive. :)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49512317172_fecd6ddf12_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ireyUU)First test 4x5 Sinar Norma Handy 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2ireyUU) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This is some very old 4x5 HP5 (not +) processed for a very long time in straight Acufine. No center filter.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49539536997_3236a92c52_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2itD5qe)Norma Handy Stuff 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2itD5qe) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Hyeprfocal chart attached to back of the Graflex XL Handgrip, also favored by Sinar for the Normas at the time.

[rdenney]

I wonder if for most applications the differences between well-executed photos made using the various 8-element (f/4 or f/5.6) 65mm wides would be particularly noticeable. I have a 65mm f/5.6 Super Angulon, and the only advantage it has over the f/8 is coverage (and for 4x5, that advantage is important). But the 65/8, within its coverage, is very sharp indeed. It's only flaws, besides dark focusing, are marginal 4x5 coverage and the unserviceable Compur 00 shutter. I ended up mounting it on a fixed-focus Travelwide--f/16 or 22 and be there. But the 5.6 works fine with 4x5, and with the Maxwell focus screen I use on my Sinar, is only moderately challenging to focus in the corners. A tilting loupe and a really good focus hood will be most valuable with lenses that short.

As to why people gravitate to longer lenses for large format, it may simply be that with a hand-held camera, we can easily fiddle with the highly-critical aiming to get it right, while futzing with a view camera and being able to see the ground glass well enough to really control aim is somewhat of a pain in the rear.

Rick "whose time required to adjust movements and position seem to be inversely proportional to focal length" Denney

[JimboWalker]

Even though I started all this conversation, I actually prefer longer lenses! My favorite lens on my 4x5 is a 180mm. I many times go to my 360mm. I also find that I shoot in vertical format most. Odd for a 65mm I'm sure. I have a Nikon 65mm f4 coming soon and am looking forward to seeing in a new way! After I have the 65mm, I will have 12 lenses spanning from 65mm to 360mm. I think all these lenses may be a hobby replacement for my model car kits?

[Jody_S]

If you have an itch to try it, scratch it. You never know how you're going to like something until you do. Some people love ultra-wides and use practically nothing else. I've shot wildlife with a small format fisheye. I'm keeping my SA 65/5.6 because like several people on this thread, I hope to build a hand-held ultra-wide camera some day.

[JimboWalker]

Just received my Nikkor 65mm f4 today!!! Wonderful condition. Works well the Pacemaker . Can't wait to shoot it and see what happens. I will be getting rid of my Super-Angulon 65mm f8 to help pay for the Nikon. I'll try local Craigslist first and see what happens.

[JimboWalker]

Wonderful set up!!