Wollensak Serial Numbers: Request for Known Dates

[Whir-Click]

I am taking my shot at correlating Wollensak lens serial numbers with production dates. Original documentation appears lost to the ages, but significantly improved understanding is possible.

This is a call for volunteers. If your Wollensak lens includes a date, would you consider sending me a private message with the relevant information: lens type, serial number, date, and mounting? For example, Velostigmat Series II, 235592, 11/26, Studio Shutter.

Does your Wollensak lens have a date? Well, some do and some don’t. Here’s what I have found:
- Nearly all Betax shutters have a date penciled (early, picture #1) or scratched (late, picture #2) on the rear diaphragm plate. If you unscrew the rear lens cell, you should see it. Very rarely I have seen early Rapax and Alphax dates in the same location. Other shutters (Optimo, Auto, Regular, etc) may be worth a look, but I have not had success with a very limited sample size
- Some Studio shutters have a date scratched into the enamel on the back of the shutter (picture #3)
- Similarly, some older barrel lenses have a date penciled on the rear of the diaphragm ring. Like with Betax shutters, remove the rear cell to view (picture #4)

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance, and I look forward to sharing the results of this study with the community.

203429203430203431203432

[Mark Sampson]

I'm sure you know that there was a long thread here, some years back, about trying to determine the serial numbers and ages of Wollensak lenses. And that the quest has never been completed... I don't recall any data mentioned then such as you've shown here; that should certainly help things along. Perhaps you could glean some useful info from that previous thread and incorporate it. The company had a nearly 70-year history, as you know, and there are lots of lenses that had nothing to do with LF. For example, I recently found a Keystone 8mm movie camera, probably pre-WWII, that has a (tiny) Wollensak lens.
I wish you the best of luck, and will help where I can.

[Whir-Click]

Mark, you put your finger on the challenges of this task. Here’s what I’ve found, and why I think we can make progress:

- Royal Anastigmat/Velostigmat/Raptar serial numbers appear sequential from beginning to end
- After WWII, Wollensak put all lenses on the six digit “Velostigmat” sequence, including lenses that never bore serial numbers in the past, such as cine lenses
- When the six-digit odometer rolled over in late 1953, Wollensak started over with AXXXXX, with the notable exception of Optar lenses for Graflex, which started a separate sequence beginning with GXXXXX

The post-war story, if not yet well characterized, at least appears straightforward. I’ve gathered many data points that constrain the early 1940s to mid 1950s, as well as some more at the tail end.

The pre-war picture is much fuzzier, and what I most hope this data call can shed light on. It appears that pre-war lenses were on separate sequences by product line. Consider the following:
- Velostigmat Series II, 235529, Studio shutter marked 1926
- Series IIIa E.X. WA, 10845, Betax shutter marked 1927
- Vitax #5, 5293, Studio Shutter marked 1928

I am hopeful that we can get a pretty good understanding of the six digit sequence, and at least chart some islands of known dates for other pre-war serial numbers that can be improved over time.

[goamules]

How do you know those penciled and scratched dates are by Wollensak? They had ledgers and knew what year and month each serial number was made I'm sure. To me those look like the marks by a camera repair person. Pocket watches have that on their inside cases, dates the watch was last cleaned, lubed, and adjusted. But it wasn't a law or anything to do that, just a practice a lot of watch repairers did. I'm thinking these dates are the same, just marking when a repair was done.

[Jim Noel]

My repairman who was originally trained in the Compound/Compur factory once told me the penciled dates were repair dates, not date of manufacture.

[Whir-Click]

Hi Garret and Jim, I hear what you’re saying. Here’s why I think it’s very likely that these penciled/scratched dates were made by the Wollensak factory at the time of manufacture:
- I’ve handled scores of Betax shutters and the consistency of the date’s location and format suggests a standard process rather than independent repairers
- The dates I’ve seen all made sense with the shutter’s age. No late dates on early, bayonet-type speed plates, no early dates on late double-knurled versions, and no dates outside of the Betax’s production range, which I would expect to see with repairs.
- I’ve seen a few lens and shutter date combinations that were too on-the-nose to suggest that these dates were added later, such as a coated Velostigmat in a Betax shutter marked 1947.
- The Betax was introduced in 1921, and I recently serviced one of the earliest models which bore 12/21 penciled on the back. This would suggest date of manufacture rather than repair.
- Wollensak’s Betax shutters don’t have serial numbers, and often were used by other lens companies, so this date may have served for Wollensak’s own warranty purposes.
- I’ve also seen shutters that have additional, later dates or cryptic marks in different places and styles. These are often inside the shutter case, out of sight, and I would attribute them to the work of repairers, consistent with your watch analogy.

Long story short: I believe these dates are Wollensak’s own manufacturing dates. It’s a hypothesis, but in the absence of factory ledgers, I think it’s a reasonable one.

[Whir-Click]

For a sanity check on shutter production vs. service date, I looked at the Betax’s two less-popular sister shutters that I have on hand. The Gammax is marked 5-22 on the back, and the Deltax is 3-24. The whole family of shutters was introduced in 1921, so I find this supportive of the numbers being factory production dates.

[goamules]

Hi Garret...
- Wollensak shutters don’t have serial numbers, and often were used by other lens companies, so this date may have served for Wollensak’s own warranty purposes.
...Long story short: I believe these dates are Wollensak’s own manufacturing dates. It’s a hypothesis, but in the absence of factory ledgers, I think it’s a reasonable one.

OK, I remembered Wollensaks having serial numbers, so just tested your hypothesis. I just grabbed two Wollesak shutters I happen to have on a shelf by my desk. Both have serial numbers.
You have to look closely, but serial numbers are on the shutters I looked at. A company wouldn't have used pencil marks on the inside for any kind of official tracking, that doesn't make sense for a lot of practical reasons. I suppose they could be a secondary assembly marking or such. But if we know repair people in watches and shutters did this (and other repairmen, it was common to do this), I think saying it's factory is a stretch.

Studio shutter, estimated circa 1930s:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49860518951_74a8b3bbdb_c.jpg

Early Optimo, 1909-1920s:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49860829117_6961ca7743_c.jpg

[goamules]

Here is another that I had handy on the shelf. Estimate 1920s based on the font type in Wollensak.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49860877902_6fdf4790a6_c.jpg

[Whir-Click]

Thank you for showing that Studio and Optimo shutters have serial numbers. Nevertheless, if these’s a date scratched on the back of those Studio shutters, I’d be interested to know it.

Let me refine the statement above to read: “Wollensak’s Betax shutters don’t have serial numbers, and often were used by other lens companies, so this date may have served for Wollensak’s own warranty purposes.“

[goamules]

Just trying to help test your hypothesis, because you mentioned Optimos and Studio shutters. None of my Wollensak shutters I've checked so far have anything scratched inside. Note the serial numbers of my two studios are over 10,000 numbers apart. And the bigger number seems to be the earlier shutter!

If you meant you suppose Wollensak just dated Betax shutters with pencil or scratched dates inside, I'll pull some out.

Betax no. 2, Velostigmate IV no. 259474 - nothing scratched inside. I'll get out some more Betaxes.

[Whir-Click]

I appreciate you taking time to look, and am interested in any else you find (or don’t find!) in your Betaxes.

[rjbuzzclick]

I have a Wollensak Regno shutter with an 11” f/7.7 Luxor Anastigmat lens mounted in it. Penciled on the inside rear is what looks like either “33958” or maybe "SN3958". There are no dates in pencil, but stamped into the side of the shutter are the patent dates “May 30, 1911 - Aug 13, 1912”. The shutter came to me on a Conley XV (whole plate) which I believe dates from around 1910-1918.

203473
203474
203475